Guest guest Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Post 2 Dear srivaishNava perunthagaiyeer, We saw in previous post king janaka [father of seethaa] explaining how he got the siva dhanu: from his ancestors which was kept in his palace, [also kept as the one to test the capacity of the 'varan' - the would be son in law of janaka]. The previous post concluded with 'let us see how siva got this dhanu: in next post'. Here, in the following slOkams parasuraama explains the story of how siva got his dhanu: to raama when both met while raama returns to his ayOdhya after the marriage with seethaa. imE dhvE dhanushee srEshtE dhivyE lOka abhipoojithE | dhruDE balavathee mukhyE sukruthE visvakarmaNaa || 1-75-11 imE + dhvE = these two dhanushee = long bows srEshtE + dhivyE + lOka + abhipoojithE = unsurpassed, unearthly [well designed by gods] by worlds, well-worshipped; dhruDe + balavathee = sturdy, strong; mukhyE = important ones [among all bows]; su + kruthE = well crafted; visvakarmaNaa = by Visvakarma, the Divine Architect. Meaning: These are the two strong and sturdy unsurpassed longbows, well designed by gods and well crafted by Visvakarma, the Divine Architect, and these are very important among all bows and well worshipped by all worlds. [perhaps readers may wonder where from two bows came for one is already broken. For that answer is 'one bow broken by you oh raama, and the other one handheld by me now'- this is stated in the next slOkam- see below] anisrushtam surai: Ekam thryambakaaya yuyuthsavE | thripura ghnam narasrEshta bhagnam kaakuthstha yath thvayaa || 1-75-12 nara srEshta = oh, best among men kaakuthstha = kaakuthstha thvayaa + bhagnam = by you, broken yuyuthsavE = restive [for a combat] thryambakaaya = for thrymbaka, for siva surai: + anisrushtam = given by gods yath = which [bow] thripura + ghnam = [that bow alone is] thripura demon annihilator; Ekam= one [of the two] meaning: Oh, best one among men, one of the two is broken by you, that alone gods gave to restive thrymbaka, god siva, for feud with demon thripura, and oh, kaakuthstha, which bow alone is the annihilator of thripura, the demon. idham dhvitheeyam dhurdharsham vishNOr dhaththam surOththamai: | thath idham vaishNavam raama dhanu: para puram jayam || 1-75-13 samaana saaram kaakuthstha roudhrENa dhanushaa thu idham | idam = this is dvitiiyam = second one durdharsham = indestructible vishNO: + dhaththam + sura + uththamai: = to vishNu given by gods the choicest thath + idham = thereby this is vaishNavam = vishNu raama = named after [vishNu] dhanu: = long bow para + puram + jayam = other's [enemy's] citadels conqueror of; samaana + saaram = identical, in essence [efficacy]; kaakuthstha = oh, Kaakuthstha roudhrENa + dhanushaa + thu + idam = with rudhraa's longbow but this is. Meaning: This is the second one, choicest gods gave this to Vishnu, thereby this is named after Him as 'Vishnu's bow', this is an indestructible and enemy-citadel conquering longbow, and this is identical in its efficacy with rudhra's longbow. thadhaa thu dhEvathaa: sarvaa: pruchChanthhi sma pithaamaham || 1-75-14 sithi kaNtasya vishNO: cha bala abala nireekshayaa | abhipraayam thu vijnaaya dhEvathaanaam pithaamaha: || 1-75-15 virOdham janayaamaasa thayO: sathyavathaam vara: | thadhaa + thu + dhEvathaa: + sarvaa: = then [once] but gods all of them pruchChanthi + sma + pithaa maham = were asking they the Grandparent siti + kaNtasya = blue throated god sivaa's vishNO: + cha = of Vishnu and bala + a + bala = [about] powerful less powerful nireekshayaa = to see [to estimate] abhipraayam + thu + vijnaaya = intent but on inferring dhEvathaanaam + pithaamaha: = of gods the Grandparent; virOdham = adversity; janayaamaasa = started to create; thayO: = among those two [vishNu - siva]; sathyavathaam + vara: = among truthfulness adherers the best. Meaning: Once, all the gods were asking the Grandparent, Brahma, as to who is powerful and who is less powerful among the blue-throated siva and vishNu. But the Grandparent Brahma on inferring the intent of gods started to create adversity among those two, siva and vishNu, for the Grandparent is the best adherer of truthfulness, [as truth cannot be demonstrated on hearsay evidence. Dear readers, here comes an interesting story how dhEvEndhran and naaradhar played a game to bring a fight between siva and vishNu to establish who is superior among the two. Perhaps this story is available in other puraaNams, which I am not able to quote the slOkam reference. But an excerpt I am giving from raamayaNa stories by swamy 'atma tatva das' from the site www.indiadivine.org <http://www.indiadivine.org> [this site ref. was provided by Sri M.K.krishnaswamy swamin when we had an exchange of mails in connection with topic. My sincere thanks are due to him] Quote -- Once there was a battle between Vishnu and Shiva. There was no cause for this, it was just Narada Muni's jubilation. He was once in the assembly of Indra, and Indra was praising Mahadeva. He was saying, "Lord Shiva has three eyes, and fire comes out of his third eye and all that." So Narada Muni said, "There are so many Shivas. In every universe there are eleven Shivas. My Lord is different. He has no third eye but He knows everything." Then Indra said, "No no no, you don't know. Vishnu is alright, he's the avatar, but Shiva is the great powerful person." "If it is so," Narada said, "Why don't you go and ask Shiva to have a fight with Vishnu? Then we will see who is more powerful." Then Indra thought, "That would be a nice thing to do," so he went to Kailash. Shiva's bull, Nandi, was asking, "What are you doing on Kailash? This is meant for people who meditate." Nandi is a great yogi, and an astrologer too. He saw Indra and knew there would be trouble, so he said, "Get out of Kailash. You are an enjoyer, so what are you doing here?" Indra said, "No no, I have only come here for Shiva's darshana without any motive." Nandi said, "I am an astrologer, and I can see on your face that you have come here to create trouble. Don't give any trouble to my Lord, he is peacefully meditating." Then Indra said, "Let me in Nandi." So he was allowed. When he came in, Shiva was in deep meditation. Indra came in there and prayed to Mahadeva so much, and finally Shiva opened his eyes. "Indra! Why are you here? There is no trouble happening. I don't think you have come here to ask me to fight with someone." Indra said, "I must say that I only visit Kailash to ask you to fight with someone, but this time it's not a demon." "Who is it then?" Mahadeva asked. "Well we had a little argument," Indra said. "Myself and Narada. I said that you are the most powerful, but Narada said that Vishnu is the most powerful." Shiva said, "You see this japa-mala I am holding? Do you know what I am doing with this? Do you know what I am chanting?" "I heard that you chant Rama's name," Indra replied. Shiva said, "So I am chanting Rama's name. And then you are asking who is more powerful. If I am more powerful than Him, then He must be chanting my name. But it would never happen, I am chanting His name." Indra said, "That is right, that is Purana, but I want to see it." Shiva said, Why do you want to see it? I am telling you, He is the most powerful and all power comes from Him. I only destroy this universe, that is all the power I have." So Indra said, "Even though you say these things, I don't believe it." "Why don't you believe it?" "Because you are so powerful that you burnt the fort which was flying in the sky." Then Shiva said, "I know what you are up to. You want to have some entertainment. So you go to Visvakarma and ask him to make a bow for me. I am a babaji, but you want me to fight. So at least give me some weapons." So Visvakarma used his mystic power and made a bow. This bow was so big that 300 people had to carry it. Actually it was in a cart. The cart had so many wheels, and 300 people had to push it to move it an inch, and then they had to rest for half an hour. So this was the size of the bow. It was unstrung also, the thread was separate. So that was brought in front of Lord Shiva. "This is a good bow," the said, and took it up. When he took it up all the demigods fainted. It was such a huge bow and Shiva was just lifting it so easily. Then Indra was saying, "See? I told you, he's very strong. Don't think that he's just a babaji meditating. He's got so much strength." Shiva then strung the bow and he said, "All right, I am ready." Then they went to Brahma and asked, "Please bring Lord Vishnu for a fight." So Brahma went to the milk ocean and meditated. Vishnu was sitting there in the Svetadvipa, and he said to Laksmi, "I wonder what Brahma is calling for now?" Lakshmi said, "Maybe some demon is there." "How can a demon have come without My knowledge? There is no demon," the Lord said. "Then You must also know why he is calling You," Lakshmi said. "Yes I do. He wants Me to have a fight with Lord Shiva." "Oh," Laksmi said. "I would like to see that." "Then I'll have to do it," the Lord said. So then He got up from His seat and He came to the other side of the milk ocean. He said, "All right Brahma, I am ready." And then Indra said, "But there is one condition - You don't bring any bow or anything from Your spiritual world. We will give You something from this world. Otherwise You will overpower him easily, we know that. We want a straightforward fight." So Visvakarma made another bow. Shiva's bow was called Mahesha-chapa, and Vishnu's bow was called Vishnu-chapa. Both were made by Visvakarma and were equal in strength. They were exactly the same. They were copies. So Vishnu came and said, "No problem, I will take it." So he took the bow, and he came and lifted it. When he lifted the bow, because He has got an eternal associate called Sarnga, who is His bow, and when Vishnu touches any bow Sarnga will come in there and it will become Sarnga-dhanu. He took the bow and Sarnga entered. Nobody could see this happen. So He came and Shiva was there, and as soon as Vishnu was in vision of Mahesha, Shiva offered his obeisances and clapped his hands, rolling on the floor in ecstasy. Indra said, "What's going on?" He turned to Narada Muni and said, "Go and tell him to give up his devotion and fight!" Narada Muni went to Shiva and said, "You have forgotten that there is supposed to be a fight. You have surrendered". So then Mahesha said, "Please, bless me so that I can fight with You." Vishnu blessed him, "All right. You can fight with Me." So they were fighting, fighting, fighting, and it was going on for a long time. Finally Shiva put the bow down and started running away from the battlefield, and all sorts of astras were coming out of Sarnga, and Shiva ran away. He ran, and he was shouting to Indra, "I told you! I told you! Now I am in trouble!" Of course, Vishnu was not angry, was only smiling. But then all the demigods prayed to Vishnu, "Please stop the war. We need Lord Shiva." So then the war was over, and Shiva was saved. Unquote - Dear raama bhakthaas, see from the slOkams 11 to 15 of sreemadh raamaayaNam it is clear that there was a fight between siva and vishNu. The reason alone was not clear. The confirmation for a fierce fight, which took place between these two and by a hoonkaaram Vishnu broke the siva's bow is again available in vaalmeeki raamaayanam. These slokams will be given in next post as this post has already exceeded 5 pages. Is it not quite interesting to know about the bow's story? Dhasan Vasudevan m.g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Sri Vasudevan, Many thanks for this posting. I was in splits when reading this. This is fantastic and a realisation of samanvaya dawned on me as to how we should bring in samanvaya / integrate Shruti with Puranas. While Puranas are interesting to read Vedas give you deeper meaning into it. Thanks a lot for this posting which shows how Lord Shiva is a true devotee of Lord Vishnu who is the Supreme Godhead but having a unparalleled daya for His bhakthas. this is very interesting indeed! thanks sukumar M.G.Vasudevan [mgv] Wednesday, November 03, 2004 3:58 PM Cc: oppiliappan the bow's story - post 2 Post 2 Dear srivaishNava perunthagaiyeer, We saw in previous post king janaka [father of seethaa] explaining how he got the siva dhanu: from his ancestors which was kept in his palace, [also kept as the one to test the capacity of the 'varan' - the would be son in law of janaka]. The previous post concluded with 'let us see how siva got this dhanu: in next post'. Here, in the following slOkams parasuraama explains the story of how siva got his dhanu: to raama when both met while raama returns to his ayOdhya after the marriage with seethaa. imE dhvE dhanushee srEshtE dhivyE lOka abhipoojithE | dhruDE balavathee mukhyE sukruthE visvakarmaNaa || 1-75-11 imE + dhvE = these two dhanushee = long bows srEshtE + dhivyE + lOka + abhipoojithE = unsurpassed, unearthly [well designed by gods] by worlds, well-worshipped; dhruDe + balavathee = sturdy, strong; mukhyE = important ones [among all bows]; su + kruthE = well crafted; visvakarmaNaa = by Visvakarma, the Divine Architect. Meaning: These are the two strong and sturdy unsurpassed longbows, well designed by gods and well crafted by Visvakarma, the Divine Architect, and these are very important among all bows and well worshipped by all worlds. [perhaps readers may wonder where from two bows came for one is already broken. For that answer is 'one bow broken by you oh raama, and the other one handheld by me now'- this is stated in the next slOkam- see below] anisrushtam surai: Ekam thryambakaaya yuyuthsavE | thripura ghnam narasrEshta bhagnam kaakuthstha yath thvayaa || 1-75-12 nara srEshta = oh, best among men kaakuthstha = kaakuthstha thvayaa + bhagnam = by you, broken yuyuthsavE = restive [for a combat] thryambakaaya = for thrymbaka, for siva surai: + anisrushtam = given by gods yath = which [bow] thripura + ghnam = [that bow alone is] thripura demon annihilator; Ekam= one [of the two] meaning: Oh, best one among men, one of the two is broken by you, that alone gods gave to restive thrymbaka, god siva, for feud with demon thripura, and oh, kaakuthstha, which bow alone is the annihilator of thripura, the demon. idham dhvitheeyam dhurdharsham vishNOr dhaththam surOththamai: | thath idham vaishNavam raama dhanu: para puram jayam || 1-75-13 samaana saaram kaakuthstha roudhrENa dhanushaa thu idham | idam = this is dvitiiyam = second one durdharsham = indestructible vishNO: + dhaththam + sura + uththamai: = to vishNu given by gods the choicest thath + idham = thereby this is vaishNavam = vishNu raama = named after [vishNu] dhanu: = long bow para + puram + jayam = other's [enemy's] citadels conqueror of; samaana + saaram = identical, in essence [efficacy]; kaakuthstha = oh, Kaakuthstha roudhrENa + dhanushaa + thu + idam = with rudhraa's longbow but this is. Meaning: This is the second one, choicest gods gave this to Vishnu, thereby this is named after Him as 'Vishnu's bow', this is an indestructible and enemy-citadel conquering longbow, and this is identical in its efficacy with rudhra's longbow. thadhaa thu dhEvathaa: sarvaa: pruchChanthhi sma pithaamaham || 1-75-14 sithi kaNtasya vishNO: cha bala abala nireekshayaa | abhipraayam thu vijnaaya dhEvathaanaam pithaamaha: || 1-75-15 virOdham janayaamaasa thayO: sathyavathaam vara: | thadhaa + thu + dhEvathaa: + sarvaa: = then [once] but gods all of them pruchChanthi + sma + pithaa maham = were asking they the Grandparent siti + kaNtasya = blue throated god sivaa's vishNO: + cha = of Vishnu and bala + a + bala = [about] powerful less powerful nireekshayaa = to see [to estimate] abhipraayam + thu + vijnaaya = intent but on inferring dhEvathaanaam + pithaamaha: = of gods the Grandparent; virOdham = adversity; janayaamaasa = started to create; thayO: = among those two [vishNu - siva]; sathyavathaam + vara: = among truthfulness adherers the best. Meaning: Once, all the gods were asking the Grandparent, Brahma, as to who is powerful and who is less powerful among the blue-throated siva and vishNu. But the Grandparent Brahma on inferring the intent of gods started to create adversity among those two, siva and vishNu, for the Grandparent is the best adherer of truthfulness, [as truth cannot be demonstrated on hearsay evidence. Dear readers, here comes an interesting story how dhEvEndhran and naaradhar played a game to bring a fight between siva and vishNu to establish who is superior among the two. Perhaps this story is available in other puraaNams, which I am not able to quote the slOkam reference. But an excerpt I am giving from raamayaNa stories by swamy 'atma tatva das' from the site www.indiadivine.org <http://www.indiadivine.org> [this site ref. was provided by Sri M.K.krishnaswamy swamin when we had an exchange of mails in connection with topic. My sincere thanks are due to him] Quote -- Once there was a battle between Vishnu and Shiva. There was no cause for this, it was just Narada Muni's jubilation. He was once in the assembly of Indra, and Indra was praising Mahadeva. He was saying, "Lord Shiva has three eyes, and fire comes out of his third eye and all that." So Narada Muni said, "There are so many Shivas. In every universe there are eleven Shivas. My Lord is different. He has no third eye but He knows everything." Then Indra said, "No no no, you don't know. Vishnu is alright, he's the avatar, but Shiva is the great powerful person." "If it is so," Narada said, "Why don't you go and ask Shiva to have a fight with Vishnu? Then we will see who is more powerful." Then Indra thought, "That would be a nice thing to do," so he went to Kailash. Shiva's bull, Nandi, was asking, "What are you doing on Kailash? This is meant for people who meditate." Nandi is a great yogi, and an astrologer too. He saw Indra and knew there would be trouble, so he said, "Get out of Kailash. You are an enjoyer, so what are you doing here?" Indra said, "No no, I have only come here for Shiva's darshana without any motive." Nandi said, "I am an astrologer, and I can see on your face that you have come here to create trouble. Don't give any trouble to my Lord, he is peacefully meditating." Then Indra said, "Let me in Nandi." So he was allowed. When he came in, Shiva was in deep meditation. Indra came in there and prayed to Mahadeva so much, and finally Shiva opened his eyes. "Indra! Why are you here? There is no trouble happening. I don't think you have come here to ask me to fight with someone." Indra said, "I must say that I only visit Kailash to ask you to fight with someone, but this time it's not a demon." "Who is it then?" Mahadeva asked. "Well we had a little argument," Indra said. "Myself and Narada. I said that you are the most powerful, but Narada said that Vishnu is the most powerful." Shiva said, "You see this japa-mala I am holding? Do you know what I am doing with this? Do you know what I am chanting?" "I heard that you chant Rama's name," Indra replied. Shiva said, "So I am chanting Rama's name. And then you are asking who is more powerful. If I am more powerful than Him, then He must be chanting my name. But it would never happen, I am chanting His name." Indra said, "That is right, that is Purana, but I want to see it." Shiva said, Why do you want to see it? I am telling you, He is the most powerful and all power comes from Him. I only destroy this universe, that is all the power I have." So Indra said, "Even though you say these things, I don't believe it." "Why don't you believe it?" "Because you are so powerful that you burnt the fort which was flying in the sky." Then Shiva said, "I know what you are up to. You want to have some entertainment. So you go to Visvakarma and ask him to make a bow for me. I am a babaji, but you want me to fight. So at least give me some weapons." So Visvakarma used his mystic power and made a bow. This bow was so big that 300 people had to carry it. Actually it was in a cart. The cart had so many wheels, and 300 people had to push it to move it an inch, and then they had to rest for half an hour. So this was the size of the bow. It was unstrung also, the thread was separate. So that was brought in front of Lord Shiva. "This is a good bow," the said, and took it up. When he took it up all the demigods fainted. It was such a huge bow and Shiva was just lifting it so easily. Then Indra was saying, "See? I told you, he's very strong. Don't think that he's just a babaji meditating. He's got so much strength." Shiva then strung the bow and he said, "All right, I am ready." Then they went to Brahma and asked, "Please bri Vishnu was sitting there in the Svetadvipa, and he said to Laksmi, "I wonder what Brahma is calling for now?" Lakshmi said, "Maybe some demon is there." "How can a demon have come without My knowledge? There is no demon," the Lord said. "Then You must also know why he is calling You," Lakshmi said. "Yes I do. He wants Me to have a fight with Lord Shiva." "Oh," Laksmi said. "I would like to see that." "Then I'll have to do it," the Lord said. So then He got up from His seat and He came to the other side of the milk ocean. He said, "All right Brahma, I am ready." And then Indra said, "But there is one condition - You don't bring any bow or anything from Your spiritual world. We will give You something from this world. Otherwise You will overpower him easily, we know that. We want a straightforward fight." So Visvakarma made another bow. Shiva's bow was called Mahesha-chapa, and Vishnu's bow was called Vishnu-chapa. Both were made by Visvakarma and were equal in strength. They were exactly the same. They were copies. So Vishnu came and said, "No problem, I will take it." So he took the bow, and he came and lifted it. When he lifted the bow, because He has got an eternal associate called Sarnga, who is His bow, and when Vishnu touches any bow Sarnga will come in there and it will become Sarnga-dhanu. He took the bow and Sarnga entered. Nobody could see this happen. So He came and Shiva was there, and as soon as Vishnu was in vision of Mahesha, Shiva offered his obeisances and clapped his hands, rolling on the floor in ecstasy. Indra said, "What's going on?" He turned to Narada Muni and said, "Go and tell him to give up his devotion and fight!" Narada Muni went to Shiva and said, "You have forgotten that there is supposed to be a fight. You have surrendered". So then Mahesha said, "Please, bless me so that I can fight with You." Vishnu blessed him, "All right. You can fight with Me." So they were fighting, fighting, fighting, and it was going on for a long time. Finally Shiva put the bow down and started running away from the battlefield, and all sorts of astras were coming out of Sarnga, and Shiva ran away. He ran, and he was shouting to Indra, "I told you! I told you! Now I am in trouble!" Of course, Vishnu was not angry, was only smiling. But then all the demigods prayed to Vishnu, "Please stop the war. We need Lord Shiva." So then the war was over, and Shiva was saved. Unquote - Dear raama bhakthaas, see from the slOkams 11 to 15 of sreemadh raamaayaNam it is clear that there was a fight between siva and vishNu. The reason alone was not clear. The confirmation for a fierce fight, which took place between these two and by a hoonkaaram Vishnu broke the siva's bow is again available in vaalmeeki raamaayanam. These slokams will be given in next post as this post has already exceeded 5 pages. Is it not quite interesting to know about the bow's story? Dhasan Vasudevan m.g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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