Guest guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Respected colleagues, recently our illustrious colleague sri.satagopan swamy had mentioned in an article that the nalayiram has been indicated in the srutis.Tgis loks farfetched ..apart fron the antiquity of the vcic age and preceeding the prabandam period, it is our understanding that the nazhwar pasurams are veda sruthi in tamil which can be recited by all chathur varnamen and womenobviously the prabandams come latter. Further by convention the nalayiram is 4000y inclusion of ramanujaandadi=not an azhwar pasuram.The no.4000 again depends on how one counts the no. of some of the pasurams like the madal, thiruverrirukkai etc/ Perhaps the puranas predict the futyue appearance os azhwars and their works,Do the vedas make such predictions?please excuse my ignorance, adiyen dasan narayanan .. Discover all that’s new in My Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Dear Sri Narayanan and Sri Varada Rajan : Thanks for your notes . Your points about the date synchronization problems between the most ancient VedA (Rg) and more recent Dhivya Prabhandhams are well understood , anticipated and respected . Thirumangai was indeed a real local king who lived in the 9th century. Swamy NammAzhwAr incarnated few centuries earlier ( some say at the beginning of Kali Yugam ; His disciple Madhura Kavi was here and lived towards the end of DhwApara Yugam and the beginning of Kali Yugam . The dating of AzhwAr's avathAra time is a tug of war between traditionalists & modern day researchers like Sri Vyaapuri PiLLai et al. I did not want to get into those controversies , although I lean towards all AzhwArs being born between 5th and 9th centuries . The eternal VedAs have a way of looking at some things and commenting on them elliptically some times . The persistent reference to " ChathvAri Sahasram " and the mentioning of Rusmaa in the same manthrams inspired me to intrepret the way in which I connected the information points. Indeed , the word Chathwari is often found in Vedic parlance. ChathwAri Sahasram is 4,000 . Among the four manthrams, we come across reference to " Chathu: Sahasram gavaam " ( Four thousand cows or words of wisdom). The "Go " sabdham in Vedic usage has many meanings : (1) Cow (2) Divine speech (3) Jwalai (4) BhUmi (5) Victory (6) Flight (7) JnanakkaNN / wisdom eye / the inner eye / dhivya chakshus (8) Speeding arrow and (9) Moksham. The path of Moksham described by the MahA Jn~Anis (AzhwArs who were yet to be born ) thru their 4000 sacred utterances (NaalAyira dhivya Prabhandham) realized from their Yoga Balam and Jn~Ana Chakshus for the benefit of SamsAris falls then in place . The birth of these great path revealers is what I was commenting upon with a little bit of poetic license . This fits in with another general prayer housed in Yajur Vedam : " Aaa Brahman BrahmaNO Brahmavarchasee jAyatAmA RaashtrE - - " Yajur Vedam : XXII.22 ( O Supreme Lord ! May there be born in this nation , the learned intellectuals , illustrious for their sacred knowledge ). That is all ! V.Sadagopan - "Rajagopalan Narayan" <rajagopalannarayan <> Sunday, November 21, 2004 11:28 AM veda and nalaiyram > > > Respected colleagues, > recently our illustrious colleague sri.satagopan swamy had mentioned in an > article that the nalayiram has been indicated in the srutis.Tgis loks > farfetched .apart fron the antiquity of the vcic age and preceeding the > prabandam period, it is our understanding that the nazhwar pasurams are > veda sruthi in tamil which can be recited by all chathur varnamen and > womenobviously the prabandams come latter. > Further by convention the nalayiram is 4000y inclusion of > ramanujaandadi=not an azhwar pasuram.The no.4000 again depends on how one > counts the no. of some of the pasurams like the madal, thiruverrirukkai > etc/ > Perhaps the puranas predict the futyue appearance os azhwars and their > works,Do the vedas make such predictions?please excuse my ignorance, > adiyen dasan narayanan > . > > > > > Discover all that’s new in My > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Shri Rajagopalan, Firstly: I felt your posting to be very humiliating to our sampradhayam!! (Also, so many typos, will you not check it before you hit the send button!!) Secondly: In your quest to understanding our sampradhayam, please do not talk bad about our 4000 Divya Prabhandam, the divine outpourings from Our Supreme Lord's dear NityaSuris' & Ayudhams' human incarnations. 4000 Divya prabandham is NON-PARIEL. You can not place it behind anything, not even Vedam because Prabhandham came out of divine experiences of the great Azhwars where as Vedam did not have such an origin. More over Dravida Vedam is as old and ancient as the Sanskrit Vedam itself. Of course, there are references to these great saints - Azhwars even in Bagavatha & Vishnu Puranam. Thirdly: Sri Sadagopan Swami is a very highly learned scholar & highly respected Baaghavatha with lot knowlegde in Veda, Vedantha, Aruliccheyal & our mahat sampradhayam, which is evident from his postings in . Please do not misinterpret such Baagavathaas of such high esteem and incur Baagavathaapacharam!! Ramanujaacharya is the founder of the Vishishtaadvaita Sampradayam. It is only fitting that we have Ramanuja Noorandhathi part of 4000 Divya Prabandham. dasan krishna srinivasan. Rajagopalan Narayan <rajagopalannarayan wrote: Respected colleagues, recently our illustrious colleague sri.satagopan swamy had mentioned in an article that the nalayiram has been indicated in the srutis.Tgis loks farfetched ..apart fron the antiquity of the vcic age and preceeding the prabandam period, it is our understanding that the nazhwar pasurams are veda sruthi in tamil which can be recited by all chathur varnamen and womenobviously the prabandams come latter. Further by convention the nalayiram is 4000y inclusion of ramanujaandadi=not an azhwar pasuram.The no.4000 again depends on how one counts the no. of some of the pasurams like the madal, thiruverrirukkai etc/ Perhaps the puranas predict the futyue appearance os azhwars and their works,Do the vedas make such predictions?please excuse my ignorance, adiyen dasan narayanan .. Discover all that’s new in My __________________Krishna Srinivasan. The all-new My – Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Dear Sri Sadagopan Swami: Thanks for your explanation on the 'go' sabdam. Could you please share with me what you see from 'rusma' found in the verse? The reference to 4000 cows is very interesting. If we take this figuratively, we could refer to many things including Nalayira Divya prabandam. Yet if we take the vedas more literally, the riks that you cited are part of substantial numner of riks on Indra and cannot be easily seen to foresee Alzwar's works. Yet it seems to be a trend, especially in Rig Veda circles perhaps starting with Sri SayAna, to view Vedas figuratively at a higher realm thus elevating what seems to be ritualistic or poetic at first sight. Thus the insight in seeing the Divya Prabandam in Rig Vedam can be said to be valid. Especially when we see that 4000 cows are brought from somewhere after a fight or some other victorious event, we can notice the 'similar' event where the Prabandams were brought from the 'tAmrabharani river' after they were 'lost'. Looking forward to your forthcoming postings on Ubaya Vedantam, dAsan, RTV Varadarajan , Sadagopan <sgopan@c...> wrote: > > Dear Sri Narayanan and Sri Varada Rajan : > > Thanks for your notes . Your points about the > date synchronization problems between the most > ancient VedA (Rg) and more recent Dhivya > Prabhandhams are well understood , anticipated > and respected . Thirumangai was indeed a real local king > who lived in the 9th century. Swamy NammAzhwAr > incarnated few centuries earlier ( some say at the beginning > of Kali Yugam ; His disciple Madhura Kavi was here > and lived towards the end of DhwApara Yugam and the > beginning of Kali Yugam . The dating of AzhwAr's avathAra > time is a tug of war between traditionalists & modern day > researchers like Sri Vyaapuri PiLLai et al. I did not want to > get into those controversies , although I lean towards > all AzhwArs being born between 5th and 9th centuries . > > The eternal VedAs have a way of looking at some things > and commenting on them elliptically some times . The persistent > reference to " ChathvAri Sahasram " and the mentioning of > Rusmaa in the same manthrams inspired me to intrepret > the way in which I connected the information points. > > Indeed , the word Chathwari is often found in Vedic parlance. > ChathwAri Sahasram is 4,000 . Among the four manthrams, > we come across reference to " Chathu: Sahasram gavaam " > ( Four thousand cows or words of wisdom). > > The "Go " sabdham in Vedic usage has many meanings : > (1) Cow (2) Divine speech (3) Jwalai (4) BhUmi (5) Victory > (6) Flight (7) JnanakkaNN / wisdom eye / the inner eye / > dhivya chakshus (8) Speeding arrow and (9) Moksham. > > The path of Moksham described by the MahA Jn~Anis > (AzhwArs who were yet to be born ) thru their 4000 sacred > utterances (NaalAyira dhivya Prabhandham) realized from their > Yoga Balam and Jn~Ana Chakshus for the benefit of > SamsAris falls then in place . The birth of these great path > revealers is what I was commenting upon with a little bit > of poetic license . > > This fits in with another general prayer housed in Yajur Vedam : > > " Aaa Brahman BrahmaNO Brahmavarchasee jAyatAmA RaashtrE - - " > Yajur Vedam : XXII.22 > > ( O Supreme Lord ! May there be born in this nation , the learned > intellectuals , illustrious for their sacred knowledge ). > > That is all ! > > V.Sadagopan > - > "Rajagopalan Narayan" <rajagopalannarayan> > <> > Sunday, November 21, 2004 11:28 AM > veda and nalaiyram > > > > > > > > Respected colleagues, > > recently our illustrious colleague sri.satagopan swamy had mentioned in an > > article that the nalayiram has been indicated in the srutis.Tgis loks > > farfetched .apart fron the antiquity of the vcic age and preceeding the > > prabandam period, it is our understanding that the nazhwar pasurams are > > veda sruthi in tamil which can be recited by all chathur varnamen and > > womenobviously the prabandams come latter. > > Further by convention the nalayiram is 4000y inclusion of > > ramanujaandadi=not an azhwar pasuram.The no.4000 again depends on how one > > counts the no. of some of the pasurams like the madal, thiruverrirukkai > > etc/ > > Perhaps the puranas predict the futyue appearance os azhwars and their > > works,Do the vedas make such predictions?please excuse my ignorance, > > adiyen dasan narayanan > > . > > > > > > > > > > Discover all that's new in My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Dear Sri Narayanan and Sri Varada Rajan : Thanks for your notes . Your points about the date synchronization problems between the most ancient VedA (Rg) and more recent Dhivya Prabhandhams are well understood , anticipated and respected . Thirumangai was indeed a real local king who lived in the 9th century. Swamy NammAzhwAr incarnated few centuries earlier ( some say at the beginning of Kali Yugam ; His disciple Madhura Kavi was here and lived towards the end of DhwApara Yugam and the beginning of Kali Yugam . The dating of AzhwAr's avathAra time is a tug of war between traditionalists & modern day researchers like Sri Vyaapuri PiLLai et al. I did not want to get into those controversies , although I lean towards all AzhwArs being born between 5th and 9th centuries . The eternal VedAs have a way of looking at some things and commenting on them elliptically some times . The persistent reference to " ChathvAri Sahasram " and the mentioning of Rusmaa in the same manthrams inspired me to intrepret the way in which I connected the information points. Indeed , the word Chathwari is often found in Vedic parlance. ChathwAri Sahasram is 4,000 . Among the four manthrams, we come across reference to " Chathu: Sahasram gavaam " ( Four thousand cows or words of wisdom). The "Go " sabdham in Vedic usage has many meanings : (1) Cow (2) Divine speech (3) Jwalai (4) BhUmi (5) Victory (6) Flight (7) JnanakkaNN / wisdom eye / the inner eye / dhivya chakshus (8) Speeding arrow and (9) Moksham. The path of Moksham described by the MahA Jn~Anis (AzhwArs who were yet to be born ) thru their 4000 sacred utterances (NaalAyira dhivya Prabhandham) realized from their Yoga Balam and Jn~Ana Chakshus for the benefit of SamsAris falls then in place . The birth of these great path revealers is what I was commenting upon with a little bit of poetic license . This fits in with another general prayer housed in Yajur Vedam : " Aaa Brahman BrahmaNO Brahmavarchasee jAyatAmA RaashtrE - - " Yajur Vedam : XXII.22 ( O Supreme Lord ! May there be born in this nation , the learned intellectuals , illustrious for their sacred knowledge ). That is all ! V.Sadagopan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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