Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Sri RAmajayam SrimathE GopAla DEsika MahA DEsikAya Namaha Dear Sri.Anand, AdiyEn heard SrimUshnam Srimad Andavan on this PAsuram (at the home of a Sri Vaishnavite at Nathamuni St, T.Nagar, Chennai-17), especially in light of a huge controversy raised by the current pontiff of Kanchi Sankara mutt, several years back. SrimUshnam Srimad Andavan not only explained this PAsuram, based on PoorvAcharya GranthAs, but went on to even take Thirupugazh and other Saivite works where the NayanmArs themselves have related to the Lord of Thirumalai as ThirumAl. Repeatedly Sri.Nrusimha Priya also answers this question, quoting even from Advaitic experts who have concluded that it is "SriNivasan". ThAzh Sadaiyum, Neel Mudiyum Onmazhuvum Chakaramum....refers to PerumAl with his Divya Soundharya ThirumEni with long matted hair, adorning Srivatsa on his heart, and Sudarsana in his hand. Iranduruvum onrai Isainthu....here the meaning is, the Lord never appears Single. With Srivatsam he appears to us always as Divya Dhampathi (so in any ThirumEni of the Lord we worship ThAyAr in Srivatsam, then the Lords feet and then enjoy the full ThirumEni of the Lord). With Kausthubam, representing us, the Lord is the complete manifestation of us in him. SarIra-SarIri Bhava as per VisishtAvaita Siddhantam. Many AzhwAr PAsuram speaks of this message and all the AzhwArs have given us this message, without fail. So its amply clear not only from this PAsuram, several other AzhvAr PAsuram, PoorvAchArya VyAkyAnam to Prakrutham AchAryas, consistently the same interpretation has been delivered. Wrong interpretations are not suprising (AdiyEn was reading Meiviratha Manyam of Swamy DEsikan, where Swamy categorically states these confusions are due to Sage Gautamas curse), which is the reason we see such "free interpretations" without having to bother about our PoorvAchAryas message (malice or Vibareetha JnAnam). These are the same people who propagate new fusion gods which have no Agamic basis (Prathyankara Devi, fusion AnjanEyar-PillaiyAr, PAshandis who claim they are God/AvatAr etc)....lets follow the teachings of our PoorvAcharyas which should keep us away from these falsehood. AdiyEn Sri RAmAnuja DAsan, Sudarsana DAsOsmi --- "Anand Sowmithiran (IE10)" <Anand.Sowmithiran wrote: > Namaskarams. > > > > There is an article in the latest issue of Sakthi > Vikatan, wherein > "sankara narayanar" deity is explained, there they > have quoted "thaazh > sadayum, neel mudiyum" Paasuram and say Azhwar > refers to Lord at > Tirupathi having both "sankara" and "narayana" forms > in a single image. > > I couldn't accept this but was not knowing the > meaning of the words at > the end of the paasuram "Irandu uruvum ondraai > isaindhu" [2 forms merged > into one]? > > Can one of you explain this paasuram, it will help > many others from our > sampradayam to have clear thoughts about this. > > > > adiyen, > > Anand. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > poor with hope and healing > http://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/VkWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand./cybergivingweek2005/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Thanks very much for detailed explanation. I was thrilled to read that "irandu uruvam ondrai" refers to Sri: being inseparable from Lord, because that's how I had imagined/guessed/expected it to reflect - I've alteast absorbed tiny drops from the great ocean of Sri Mukkur swamy's 'Lakshmi vaibhavam' pravachanam. dasan, Anand. Sudarsan Parthasarathy.S. [sudarsanp] Friday, December 23, 2005 7:33 PM Anand Sowmithiran (IE10); Re: Article on 'sankara narayanar' Sri RAmajayam SrimathE GopAla DEsika MahA DEsikAya Namaha Dear Sri.Anand, AdiyEn heard SrimUshnam Srimad Andavan on this PAsuram (at the home of a Sri Vaishnavite at Nathamuni St, T.Nagar, Chennai-17), especially in light of a huge controversy raised by the current pontiff of Kanchi Sankara mutt, several years back. SrimUshnam Srimad Andavan not only explained this PAsuram, based on PoorvAcharya GranthAs, but went on to even take Thirupugazh and other Saivite works where the NayanmArs themselves have related to the Lord of Thirumalai as ThirumAl. Repeatedly Sri.Nrusimha Priya also answers this question, quoting even from Advaitic experts who have concluded that it is "SriNivasan". ThAzh Sadaiyum, Neel Mudiyum Onmazhuvum Chakaramum....refers to PerumAl with his Divya Soundharya ThirumEni with long matted hair, adorning Srivatsa on his heart, and Sudarsana in his hand. Iranduruvum onrai Isainthu....here the meaning is, the Lord never appears Single. With Srivatsam he appears to us always as Divya Dhampathi (so in any ThirumEni of the Lord we worship ThAyAr in Srivatsam, then the Lords feet and then enjoy the full ThirumEni of the Lord). With Kausthubam, representing us, the Lord is the complete manifestation of us in him. SarIra-SarIri Bhava as per VisishtAvaita Siddhantam. Many AzhwAr PAsuram speaks of this message and all the AzhwArs have given us this message, without fail. So its amply clear not only from this PAsuram, several other AzhvAr PAsuram, PoorvAchArya VyAkyAnam to Prakrutham AchAryas, consistently the same interpretation has been delivered. Wrong interpretations are not suprising (AdiyEn was reading Meiviratha Manyam of Swamy DEsikan, where Swamy categorically states these confusions are due to Sage Gautamas curse), which is the reason we see such "free interpretations" without having to bother about our PoorvAchAryas message (malice or Vibareetha JnAnam). These are the same people who propagate new fusion gods which have no Agamic basis (Prathyankara Devi, fusion AnjanEyar-PillaiyAr, PAshandis who claim they are God/AvatAr etc)....lets follow the teachings of our PoorvAcharyas which should keep us away from these falsehood. AdiyEn Sri RAmAnuja DAsan, Sudarsana DAsOsmi --- "Anand Sowmithiran (IE10)" <Anand.Sowmithiran wrote: > Namaskarams. > > > > There is an article in the latest issue of Sakthi > Vikatan, wherein > "sankara narayanar" deity is explained, there they > have quoted "thaazh > sadayum, neel mudiyum" Paasuram and say Azhwar > refers to Lord at > Tirupathi having both "sankara" and "narayana" forms > in a single image. > > I couldn't accept this but was not knowing the > meaning of the words at > the end of the paasuram "Irandu uruvum ondraai > isaindhu" [2 forms merged > into one]? > > Can one of you explain this paasuram, it will help > many others from our > sampradayam to have clear thoughts about this. > > > > adiyen, > > Anand. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > poor with hope and healing > http://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/VkWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand./cybergivingweek2005/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Dear Bhagavatas: The topic is best discussed in private mails as it does not fit in with the mission statement of "Sri Ranga Sri" which reads as follows: "This is a group of "Swami Desika Darsana Satsangam" (SDDS) for studying Srivaishnava - Visishtadvaita philosophy and practices as laid down by Azwars and as clarified by Acharyas of Bhagavad Ramanuja - Swami Desika Sath Sampradayam. Articles are welcome subject to the general norms of tolerance and mutual respect within the realms of the above philosophy and practices" Moderator ==================================================================== Dear Sri Sudarsan Swamin, I read your mail regarding the "Shankaranarayana" aspect of ThiruVenkatamudayan. I have great devotion towards ThiruVenkatamudayan, who is also my Kuladeivam and ishtadeivam. But I am not able to digest parts of your mail where you say; "These are the same people who propagate new fusion gods which have no Agamic basis (Prathyankara Devi, fusion AnjanEyar-PillaiyAr, PAshandis who claim they are God/AvatAr etc)....lets follow the teachings of our PoorvAcharyas which should keep us away from these falsehood." Even though I cannot understand the Anjaneyar-Pillaiyar fusioned Adianthamurthi, mysterious are the ways of Bhagavan and he can take any form that he likes. I have heard many Srivaishnavas refuting the Panchamukha Anjaneya roopam, even though the very famed Sri Raghavendra Tirtha of Madhva Sampradaya held that roopam dear to his heart and Sri Hanuman gave him darshan in that divyaroopam, which is also described explicitly in his charitram. If we take Agama as the final word, Bhagavan is beyond that and He need not limit Himself to those rules and regulations. Sri Prathyangira Devi is a very innate deity in Srividyopasana, which has been practised and perfected by several great upasakas, including great Acharyas that achieved great heights in Srividyopasana, who have accepted that as a form of Amba. Now, refuting these deities would be tantamount to refuting the words of these Acharyas. What is our locus standi to question the greatness, the divinity and the words of these Acharyas, including Sri Raghavendra Tirtha? Therefore, I would deem it better to let each one accept Bhagavan in his own way, at least to an extent, since He is ANORANIYA and MAHATORMAHIYA. --- "Sudarsan Parthasarathy.S." <sudarsanp wrote: > Sri RAmajayam > SrimathE GopAla DEsika MahA DEsikAya Namaha > > Dear Sri.Anand, > AdiyEn heard SrimUshnam Srimad > Andavan > on this PAsuram (at the home of a Sri Vaishnavite at > Nathamuni St, T.Nagar, Chennai-17), especially in > light of a huge controversy raised by the current > pontiff of Kanchi Sankara mutt, several years back. > > SrimUshnam Srimad Andavan not only explained this > PAsuram, based on PoorvAcharya GranthAs, but went on > to even take Thirupugazh and other Saivite works > where > the NayanmArs themselves have related to the Lord of > Thirumalai as ThirumAl. Repeatedly Sri.Nrusimha > Priya > also answers this question, quoting even from > Advaitic > experts who have concluded that it is "SriNivasan". > > ThAzh Sadaiyum, Neel Mudiyum Onmazhuvum > Chakaramum....refers to PerumAl with his Divya > Soundharya ThirumEni with long matted hair, adorning > Srivatsa on his heart, and Sudarsana in his hand. > > Iranduruvum onrai Isainthu....here the meaning is, > the > Lord never appears Single. With Srivatsam he > appears > to us always as Divya Dhampathi (so in any ThirumEni > of the Lord we worship ThAyAr in Srivatsam, then the > Lords feet and then enjoy the full ThirumEni of the > Lord). With Kausthubam, representing us, the Lord > is the complete manifestation of us in him. > SarIra-SarIri Bhava as per VisishtAvaita Siddhantam. > > Many AzhwAr PAsuram speaks of this message and all > the AzhwArs have given us this message, without > fail. > > > So its amply clear not only from this PAsuram, > several > other AzhvAr PAsuram, PoorvAchArya VyAkyAnam to > Prakrutham AchAryas, consistently the same > interpretation has been delivered. > > Wrong interpretations are not suprising (AdiyEn was > reading Meiviratha Manyam of Swamy DEsikan, where > Swamy categorically states these confusions are due > to > Sage Gautamas curse), which is the reason we see > such > "free interpretations" without having to bother > about > our PoorvAchAryas message (malice or Vibareetha > JnAnam). These are the same people who propagate > new > fusion gods which have no Agamic basis (Prathyankara > Devi, fusion AnjanEyar-PillaiyAr, PAshandis who > claim > they are God/AvatAr etc)....lets follow the > teachings > of our PoorvAcharyas which should keep us away from > these falsehood. > > > AdiyEn Sri RAmAnuja DAsan, > > Sudarsana DAsOsmi > > --- "Anand Sowmithiran (IE10)" > <Anand.Sowmithiran wrote: > > > Namaskarams. > > > > > > > > There is an article in the latest issue of Sakthi > > Vikatan, wherein > > "sankara narayanar" deity is explained, there they > > have quoted "thaazh > > sadayum, neel mudiyum" Paasuram and say Azhwar > > refers to Lord at > > Tirupathi having both "sankara" and "narayana" > forms > > in a single image. > > > > I couldn't accept this but was not knowing the > > meaning of the words at > > the end of the paasuram "Irandu uruvum ondraai > > isaindhu" [2 forms merged > > into one]? > > > > Can one of you explain this paasuram, it will help > > many others from our > > sampradayam to have clear thoughts about this. > > > > > > > > adiyen, > > > > Anand. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > --------------------~--> > > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > > poor with hope and healing > > > http://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/VkWolB/TM > > > --~-> > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for Good - Make a difference this year. > http://brand./cybergivingweek2005/ > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > poor with hope and healing > http://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/VkWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. 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Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Likewise can anyody give the real meaning of Poigaiazhwar's paadal "Aran Naranan Namam Aanvidai.....uruvam ericar mayni ondru" The interpretation by Sujatha is available in the following site which also establishes that Sivan and Narayanan are one and the same. http://www.desikan.com/blogcms/wiki/index.php?id=azhvar_sujatha_pogai Adiyean Ramani --- "Anand Sowmithiran (IE10)" <Anand.Sowmithiran wrote: > Thanks very much for detailed explanation. > > I was thrilled to read that "irandu uruvam ondrai" > refers to Sri: being > inseparable from Lord, because that's how I had > imagined/guessed/expected it to reflect - I've > alteast absorbed tiny > drops from the great ocean of Sri Mukkur swamy's > 'Lakshmi vaibhavam' > pravachanam. > > dasan, > Anand. > > > > Sudarsan Parthasarathy.S. > [sudarsanp] > Friday, December 23, 2005 7:33 PM > Anand Sowmithiran (IE10); > > Re: Article on 'sankara > narayanar' > > Sri RAmajayam > SrimathE GopAla DEsika MahA DEsikAya Namaha > > Dear Sri.Anand, > AdiyEn heard SrimUshnam Srimad > Andavan > on this PAsuram (at the home of a Sri Vaishnavite at > Nathamuni St, T.Nagar, Chennai-17), especially in > light of a huge controversy raised by the current > pontiff of Kanchi Sankara mutt, several years back. > > SrimUshnam Srimad Andavan not only explained this > PAsuram, based on PoorvAcharya GranthAs, but went on > to even take Thirupugazh and other Saivite works > where > the NayanmArs themselves have related to the Lord of > Thirumalai as ThirumAl. Repeatedly Sri.Nrusimha > Priya > also answers this question, quoting even from > Advaitic > experts who have concluded that it is "SriNivasan". > > ThAzh Sadaiyum, Neel Mudiyum Onmazhuvum > Chakaramum....refers to PerumAl with his Divya > Soundharya ThirumEni with long matted hair, adorning > Srivatsa on his heart, and Sudarsana in his hand. > > Iranduruvum onrai Isainthu....here the meaning is, > the > Lord never appears Single. With Srivatsam he > appears > to us always as Divya Dhampathi (so in any ThirumEni > of the Lord we worship ThAyAr in Srivatsam, then the > Lords feet and then enjoy the full ThirumEni of the > Lord). With Kausthubam, representing us, the Lord > is the complete manifestation of us in him. > SarIra-SarIri Bhava as per VisishtAvaita Siddhantam. > > Many AzhwAr PAsuram speaks of this message and all > the AzhwArs have given us this message, without > fail. > > > So its amply clear not only from this PAsuram, > several > other AzhvAr PAsuram, PoorvAchArya VyAkyAnam to > Prakrutham AchAryas, consistently the same > interpretation has been delivered. > > Wrong interpretations are not suprising (AdiyEn was > reading Meiviratha Manyam of Swamy DEsikan, where > Swamy categorically states these confusions are due > to > Sage Gautamas curse), which is the reason we see > such > "free interpretations" without having to bother > about > our PoorvAchAryas message (malice or Vibareetha > JnAnam). These are the same people who propagate > new > fusion gods which have no Agamic basis (Prathyankara > Devi, fusion AnjanEyar-PillaiyAr, PAshandis who > claim > they are God/AvatAr etc)....lets follow the > teachings > of our PoorvAcharyas which should keep us away from > these falsehood. > > > AdiyEn Sri RAmAnuja DAsan, > > Sudarsana DAsOsmi > > --- "Anand Sowmithiran (IE10)" > <Anand.Sowmithiran wrote: > > > Namaskarams. > > > > > > > > There is an article in the latest issue of Sakthi > > Vikatan, wherein > > "sankara narayanar" deity is explained, there they > > have quoted "thaazh > > sadayum, neel mudiyum" Paasuram and say Azhwar > > refers to Lord at > > Tirupathi having both "sankara" and "narayana" > forms > > in a single image. > > > > I couldn't accept this but was not knowing the > > meaning of the words at > > the end of the paasuram "Irandu uruvum ondraai > > isaindhu" [2 forms merged > > into one]? > > > > Can one of you explain this paasuram, it will help > > many others from our > > sampradayam to have clear thoughts about this. > > > > > > > > adiyen, > > > > Anand. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > --------------------~--> > > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > > poor with hope and healing > > > http://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/VkWolB/TM > > > --~-> > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for Good - Make a difference this year. > http://brand./cybergivingweek2005/ > > > ________ DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 SrI: Dear Sri Ramani : Sivan and NarayaNan are not the one in Sri VaishNava SampradhAyam . This position has been soundly established by AzhwArs and AchAryAs . The AzhwArs paasuram's true meanings has been commented upon in depth to prove the point . This topic may not be the best one for debate in e-mail list . If you or others are interested in knowing more about this , I will be happy to refer you to the right references . V.Sadagopan - "ramani seshadri venkat" <ramani_seshadri "Anand Sowmithiran (IE10)" <Anand.Sowmithiran; "Sudarsan Parthasarathy.S." <sudarsanp; <> Friday, December 30, 2005 2:07 AM RE: Article on 'sankara narayanar' > Likewise can anyody give the real meaning of > Poigaiazhwar's paadal "Aran Naranan Namam > Aanvidai.....uruvam ericar mayni ondru" > > The interpretation by Sujatha is available in the > following site which also establishes that Sivan and > Narayanan are one and the same. > > http://www.desikan.com/blogcms/wiki/index.php?id=azhvar_sujatha_pogai > > Adiyean > Ramani > > --- "Anand Sowmithiran (IE10)" > <Anand.Sowmithiran wrote: > >> Thanks very much for detailed explanation. >> >> I was thrilled to read that "irandu uruvam ondrai" >> refers to Sri: being >> inseparable from Lord, because that's how I had >> imagined/guessed/expected it to reflect - I've >> alteast absorbed tiny >> drops from the great ocean of Sri Mukkur swamy's >> 'Lakshmi vaibhavam' >> pravachanam. >> >> dasan, >> Anand. >> >> >> >> Sudarsan Parthasarathy.S. >> [sudarsanp] >> Friday, December 23, 2005 7:33 PM >> Anand Sowmithiran (IE10); >> >> Re: Article on 'sankara >> narayanar' >> >> Sri RAmajayam >> SrimathE GopAla DEsika MahA DEsikAya Namaha >> >> Dear Sri.Anand, >> AdiyEn heard SrimUshnam Srimad >> Andavan >> on this PAsuram (at the home of a Sri Vaishnavite at >> Nathamuni St, T.Nagar, Chennai-17), especially in >> light of a huge controversy raised by the current >> pontiff of Kanchi Sankara mutt, several years back. >> >> SrimUshnam Srimad Andavan not only explained this >> PAsuram, based on PoorvAcharya GranthAs, but went on >> to even take Thirupugazh and other Saivite works >> where >> the NayanmArs themselves have related to the Lord of >> Thirumalai as ThirumAl. Repeatedly Sri.Nrusimha >> Priya >> also answers this question, quoting even from >> Advaitic >> experts who have concluded that it is "SriNivasan". >> >> ThAzh Sadaiyum, Neel Mudiyum Onmazhuvum >> Chakaramum....refers to PerumAl with his Divya >> Soundharya ThirumEni with long matted hair, adorning >> Srivatsa on his heart, and Sudarsana in his hand. >> >> Iranduruvum onrai Isainthu....here the meaning is, >> the >> Lord never appears Single. With Srivatsam he >> appears >> to us always as Divya Dhampathi (so in any ThirumEni >> of the Lord we worship ThAyAr in Srivatsam, then the >> Lords feet and then enjoy the full ThirumEni of the >> Lord). With Kausthubam, representing us, the Lord >> is the complete manifestation of us in him. >> SarIra-SarIri Bhava as per VisishtAvaita Siddhantam. >> >> Many AzhwAr PAsuram speaks of this message and all >> the AzhwArs have given us this message, without >> fail. >> >> >> So its amply clear not only from this PAsuram, >> several >> other AzhvAr PAsuram, PoorvAchArya VyAkyAnam to >> Prakrutham AchAryas, consistently the same >> interpretation has been delivered. >> >> Wrong interpretations are not suprising (AdiyEn was >> reading Meiviratha Manyam of Swamy DEsikan, where >> Swamy categorically states these confusions are due >> to >> Sage Gautamas curse), which is the reason we see >> such >> "free interpretations" without having to bother >> about >> our PoorvAchAryas message (malice or Vibareetha >> JnAnam). These are the same people who propagate >> new >> fusion gods which have no Agamic basis (Prathyankara >> Devi, fusion AnjanEyar-PillaiyAr, PAshandis who >> claim >> they are God/AvatAr etc)....lets follow the >> teachings >> of our PoorvAcharyas which should keep us away from >> these falsehood. >> >> >> AdiyEn Sri RAmAnuja DAsan, >> >> Sudarsana DAsOsmi >> >> --- "Anand Sowmithiran (IE10)" >> <Anand.Sowmithiran wrote: >> >> > Namaskarams. >> > >> > >> > >> > There is an article in the latest issue of Sakthi >> > Vikatan, wherein >> > "sankara narayanar" deity is explained, there they >> > have quoted "thaazh >> > sadayum, neel mudiyum" Paasuram and say Azhwar >> > refers to Lord at >> > Tirupathi having both "sankara" and "narayana" >> forms >> > in a single image. >> > >> > I couldn't accept this but was not knowing the >> > meaning of the words at >> > the end of the paasuram "Irandu uruvum ondraai >> > isaindhu" [2 forms merged >> > into one]? >> > >> > Can one of you explain this paasuram, it will help >> > many others from our >> > sampradayam to have clear thoughts about this. >> > >> > >> > >> > adiyen, >> > >> > Anand. >> > >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been >> > removed] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------ Sponsor >> > >> > >> > >> > Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> for Good - Make a difference this year. >> http://brand./cybergivingweek2005/ >> >> >> > > > > > ________ > DSL - Something to write home about. > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl. > Links > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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