Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Dear Bhagavatas: Iam forwarding my reply to a query by Sri Srivatsan Narasimhan (srivatsann) on the subject. Hope you may be interested in this. Dasoham Anbil Ramaswamy ============================================================= Dear friend: All your questions have been answered in detail in my book "Hinduism Rediscovered" published by “The Tiruvenkatam Group, Kuwait” and released by His Holiness Srimad Andavan, Sri Poundarikapuram Swami Asramam, Srirangam, in 2004) I am, however, giving some brief references here. As for abortion, our scriptures strictly prohibit it except in some special circumstances (These have been extensively detailed in Chapter 14 of the said book) “GarbhOpanishad” forms part of KrishNa yajur vEda Samhita and is imparted by Sage Pippala and describes how the fetus grows in the mother’s womb and the travails it undergoes during this period. Long before the modern scientists what with their instruments, gadgets, X-Rays etc were tracing this; this Upanishad had already done it with minute details by sheer supersensory perception.” (Vide page 52 ibid) The GarbhOpanishad gives a graphic description not only of the trauma and the travails suffered by the fetus during this process but also the pangs of birth and the toils and troubles during childhood, youth and old age. Even a cursory reading of the Upanishad would instill in us a total abhorrence of our existence before, during and after birth. “Saara Prakaasikai quotes “GarbhOpanishad” which describes the stages of development of the embryo in the womb of the mother thus: “Eka raatrOshitam kalilam bhavati, sapta raatrOshitam budabudam, ardha-maasaabhyantarENa piNDa: maasaabhyantarE kaTinO bhavati, maasa dvayEna sirah kurutE, maasatrayENa paada pradESa: chaturthE gulpha jaTara kaTina pradEsa: panchamE prushTvamsa: shashTE mukha naasikaa akshi srOtraaNi, saptamE chaitanyam, ashTamE sarva sampoorNO bhavati, navamE sarva lakshaNa jnaana karaNa sampanna:” Meaning: “The nondescript mass forms like a thicket (kalila) on the first day For 7 days, it stays in that condition On the seventh day, it becomes a bubble (budbudam); In 15 days, it becomes a handful of mass (piNdam); In a month it gets hardened; In two months the head appears; In the third month, the feet appear; In the fourth month, the knees and the tummy form; In the fifth month spinal chord develops; In the sixth month, eras, eyes and nose formations appear; In the seventh month, symptoms of life appear; In the eighth month all limbs form; In the ninth month, the formation of human figure takes shape in full” (Vide Page 996 0f ‘Srimad Rahasya Traya Saaram” published by Srimad Andavan, Sri Poundarikapuram Swami Asramam, Srirangam (3rd Edition- 2000) Swami Desika in “Nigamana Adhikaara” of his “Srimad Rahasya Traya Saaram” compares this to the processes to which cotton is subjected to right from the time of plucking from the plant to the stage when it is turned into a piece of cloth. “An interesting revelation is that when in the 9th month, the mental and sense faculties had fully developed, the Jiva remembers all the good and bad deeds it had done during its previous births and looks forward to correct and evolve itself on birth. But, the moment it falls down on delivery, the strange illusion that is “maayaa” overtakes it and it forgets all that and starts associating with the mundane objects that lead again to rebirths” (Vide page 53 of “Hinduism Rediscovered, ibid) Dasoham Anbil Ramaswamy ========================================================== >"Srivatsan Narasimhan" <srivatsann ><Ramanbil,<sgopan >Growth of foetus and our sAstrAs >Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:28:42 -0800 > >Dear Sri Anbil Swamy & Sri Sadagopan Swamy, > >Yesterday there was discussion with adiyEn's friend >about the growth of foetus in mother's womb and our >sAstrAs. With the limited knowledge we gained by >reading email groups and other books, we could not >figure out a satisfactory answer. > >We had following questions and would like to see >what our Sastras have to say about them. If you >could quote pramAnAs along with your reply, it >would be very helpful. If you could give references, >if these have been discussed earlier, that would >also be great. > >1) When does a jivAtma enter the embryo? Is it >transmitted from the male or enters at later stages? > >2) When are the pancha mukhya prAnan (Pranan, Apanan, >vyAnan, udAnan and samAnan) obtained by the baby? > >3) Does the embryo have life, say during the first >3 weeks? > >4) By saying "life" do we mean "jivAtma" or the "prAnan" >or something totally different? > >5) Is there any reference to abortion in our sAstrAs >or itihAsAs? Do they claim it to be equivalent to killing >a life? We got into this, when we were discussing about >the opposition to the abortion bill in the US. > >Sorry if adiyEn's questions are bordering >adhika prasangithanam. > >adiyEn >Srivatsan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 SrI: Dear Sriman Anbil Swamy : Thanks very much for your detailed answers . Readers : Please browse thru Sri Anbil Swamy's responses first ( located at the end of my mail) to relate to the questions and the answers . ******************************************************* Surely , this subject would be of great interest to AasthikAs everywhere . This is not an easy suject to handle over the impersonal medium of Internet because of the ongoing controversies that are clamoring for the attention of the US Supreme Court ( Roe vs Wade etc ) . Back in India, a doctor was convicted today for the first time in India for using sonograms and abetting in abortion of a female child . In one village in Punjab during this year , there were the birth of 39 boy babies and 19 female babies . This is no fluke . Many emotional issues are also here including "test tube babies , cloning " etc. Let us stay away from the temptation of being dragged into these side debates and focus on what SaasthrAs say independent of them being followed in modern day India or not . ****************************************************************** Sriman Srivatsan Narasimhan is asking some astute questions . His six questions can be answered by competent authorities from a neonatal , ethical and SaasthrA point of view . AchAryans are ideal to answer these questions from a SaasthrA point of view but we can add to the discussions and direct AasthikAs to approach their AchAryAs for authoritative answers . The answers to the Six questions of Sri Narasimhan are found in Upanishads , Sri Bhaashyam, ThiruvAimozhi , VishNu PurAnam and other source granthams . ***************************************************************************** Question ONE is about Growth of Fetus in Mother's womb : The answers provided by GarbhOpanishad are backed up in great detail by Developmental Biology Tutorials by Medical Schools of U. Penn and other Medical Schools . Google search under embryology would give the growth of the fertilized embryo from day 1 to the 39th week .The first 8 weeks cover the embryonic growth and the 8th to the 39th week time frame comes under the fetal growth . At MIT during my student days , I took special courses in Neurobiology and it was revelatroy in the sense that opened one's eyes about the mysteries of the miraculous clockwork like growth of the embryo and the fetus from conception to birth over ~39 weeks . It was staggering to see what can go wrong and how most of the cases the body has its defenses to cope with the stresses of pregnancy . The 8 week long embryonic period is divided into " 23 Carnegie Stages " , which are distinct phases of the growth of the embryo . Human development charts are available from extensive studies form a Physiological point of view : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/embryo Comparitive embryology Gallery is also available there for easy tracking of human, amphibian , Fish , Drosphilia , chicken embryo growth and the time cycles have been well studied . There is a lot of commonality among species. The human cycle of development is about 39 weeks for the birth of a fully developed baby and the rest of the growth takes place outside the Mother's womb due to the space limitations . ************************************************************************* Question 1 of Sri Narasimhan is largely about Developmental Biology . Plenty of information is available and the GarbhOpanishad has cast light on this topic much before modern science entered as A nbil Swamy has pointed out . Nothing much to add here . Plenty of detailed scientific references ( cited above) are available . ****************************************************************************** Question 2: " When does a JeevAthma enter the embryo ? " At the time of successful garbha DhAnam and consequent fertilization of the egg . The transmigration of the Jeevan from the body enveloped with the subtle elements at the time of the body falling down and entering another body is covered in Brahma Soohtram 3.1.1 The commentaries on this Soothram by AchArya RaamAnuja based on the insight of PanchAgni VidhyA upAsanam are : " dEhAnathara gamanE dEha kaaraNa bhUthai: bhUtha sookshmai: samyukthO gacchathy. " While attaining a different body based on residual karmAs ( for those who have not performed an appropriate UpAyam like Bhakthi or Prapatthi yOgam) , the JeevAthman moves in with the accompaniment of the subtle elements/ PrANans and sense organs in their subtle forms ( BrahadhAraNyaka Upanishad : 4.4.2 and GitA 15.7 ). Leaving the body , travelling to dhyulOka or Narakam to enjoy the pleasures temporarily or suffering in narakam based on their PuNyams and Paapams are stages before being born in different wombs ( ChAndhOgyam 5.10.7) . The JeevAthma descends with residual karma to become embodied again . Mumukshu Jeevans follow the archirAdhi mArgam , cros sthe Viraja river and do not return to this karma bhUmi again .. ************************************************************ Question 3:" When the Pancha PrANAs obtained by the baby ?" The usage of the word "baby" is inappropriate . Pancha PrANAs exited with the Jeevan at the time of exit from the worn body .. Once it transmigrates to another womb , they come together with the jeevan . ************************************************************************* Question 4: " Does the embryo have life during the first 3 weeks ?" Ofcourse . The cell division is taking place . Stem cells are taking over as early as the second day after fertilization of the egg . **************************************************************************** Question 5: " By life , do we mean the JeevAthma or PrANan or some thing totally different ? JeevAthmA with prAnan and the subtle indhriyams is "Life" . The Lord is inside the Jeevan and is not affected by the karmAs of the Jeevan . ********************************************************************** Question 6: " Is there any reference to abortion the SaasthrAs? Do they claim to be equivalent to killing Life ?" " Sisu Hatthi" is a subject covered by Sage ParAsara"s VishNu PurANam in the context of various Narakams . Those who destroy the embryo/fetus are sent to a special Narakam called "RhOdham" , where the Jeevan is given a body and buried alive to suffocate . The jeevan feels the suffering . "Aathma Hatthi" is another topic , which is also condemned by the Bhagavath Saasthrams. One can quote more PramANams from the Saasthrams but it will lead to too much length in this posting . The whole purpose of this exercise in answering is to suggest that our Saasthrams are far sighted and are also compassionate and provide prAyascchitthams and ParihArams . V.Sadagopan - "Ram Anbil" <Ramanbil <Srirangasri> Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:37 AM RE: Growth of foetus and our sAstrAs > Dear Bhagavatas: > Iam forwarding my reply to a query by Sri Srivatsan Narasimhan > (srivatsann) on the subject. Hope you may be interested in this. > Dasoham > Anbil Ramaswamy > ============================================================= > > > Dear friend: > > All your questions have been answered in detail in my book "Hinduism > Rediscovered" published by “The Tiruvenkatam Group, Kuwait” and released > by His Holiness Srimad Andavan, Sri Poundarikapuram Swami Asramam, > Srirangam, in 2004) > > I am, however, giving some brief references here. As for abortion, our > scriptures strictly prohibit it except in some special circumstances > (These have been extensively detailed in Chapter 14 of the said book) > > “GarbhOpanishad” forms part of KrishNa yajur vEda Samhita and is imparted > by Sage Pippala and describes how the fetus grows in the mother’s womb > and > the travails it undergoes during this period. Long before the modern > scientists what with their instruments, gadgets, X-Rays etc were tracing > this; this > Upanishad had already done it with minute details by sheer supersensory > perception.” (Vide page 52 ibid) > > The GarbhOpanishad gives a graphic description not only of the trauma and > the travails suffered by the fetus during this process but also the pangs > of birth and the toils and troubles during childhood, youth and old age. > Even > a cursory reading of the Upanishad would instill in us a total abhorrence > of > our existence before, during and after birth. > > “Saara Prakaasikai quotes “GarbhOpanishad” which describes the stages of > development of the embryo in the womb of the mother thus: > > “Eka raatrOshitam kalilam bhavati, sapta raatrOshitam budabudam, > ardha-maasaabhyantarENa piNDa: maasaabhyantarE kaTinO bhavati, maasa > dvayEna sirah kurutE, maasatrayENa paada pradESa: chaturthE gulpha jaTara > kaTina pradEsa: panchamE prushTvamsa: shashTE mukha naasikaa akshi > srOtraaNi, saptamE chaitanyam, ashTamE sarva sampoorNO bhavati, navamE > sarva lakshaNa jnaana karaNa sampanna:” > > Meaning: > “The nondescript mass forms like a thicket (kalila) on the first day > For 7 days, it stays in that condition > On the seventh day, it becomes a bubble (budbudam); > In 15 days, it becomes a handful of mass (piNdam); > In a month it gets hardened; > In two months the head appears; > In the third month, the feet appear; > In the fourth month, the knees and the tummy form; > In the fifth month spinal chord develops; > In the sixth month, eras, eyes and nose formations appear; > In the seventh month, symptoms of life appear; > In the eighth month all limbs form; > In the ninth month, the formation of human figure takes shape in full” > > (Vide Page 996 0f ‘Srimad Rahasya Traya Saaram” published by Srimad > Andavan, Sri Poundarikapuram Swami Asramam, Srirangam (3rd Edition- > 2000)> > Swami Desika in “Nigamana Adhikaara” of his “Srimad Rahasya Traya Saaram” > compares this to the processes to which cotton is subjected to right from > the time of plucking from the plant to the stage when it is turned into a > piece of cloth. > > “An interesting revelation is that when in the 9th month, the mental and > sense faculties had fully developed, the Jiva remembers all the good and > bad deeds it had done during its previous births and looks forward to > correct > and evolve itself on birth. But, the moment it falls down on delivery, the > strange illusion that is “maayaa” overtakes it and it forgets all that and > starts associating with the mundane objects that lead again to rebirths” > (Vide page 53 of “Hinduism Rediscovered, ibid) > Dasoham > Anbil Ramaswamy > ========================================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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