Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Dear Group, I personally believe that we are not really resposnsible for anything we do.. I know this is going to shock the pants off most so called Advaitins ..but I think we need to detach ourselves from the doer.. Things are happening all around us ..wars..suffering ...feelings..anger.. To whom are all these things happening.. It is just a passing dream. Could any one in this group have stopped Bush going to war on Iraq.Bush himself couldn't have stopped himself.... So all we can do is.. to just witness these happenings in our lives as well as in the world.. Our samskaras drive us to do the things we do.. but to whom are these samskaras.. We need to do the vichara but whatever has to comeabout in your life will happen anyway..So there's no point in feeling guilty about anything you do.. Try to be a witness of the actor on the stage of life .. He is just doing his thing..going through the motions.. Remember the truth we need to drive home is that there is no doer..He is just a figment of the mind and the mind itself is unreal.. So one cannot go about saying that we are responsible for the so called bad things we are doing.. We are just not responsible for anything bad or good... In his entire life Ramana never accused anyone of wrong doing..He really believed in what he taught and was an embodiment of it but some on this group are just conditoned by their traditional beliefs and can't shake them off. alec > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Visit your group "RamanaMaharshi" on the web. Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 If the urge arises to harm our neighbour, we should let that urge act itself out, is that it? Yet, if feelings of remorse and guilt arise afterwards we should make the effort not to feel guilty by telling ourselves we are not responsible for our actions??? A.M. On 23/04/06, alakeshwar jayanarayan <alakeshwar > wrote: > > Dear Group, > I personally believe that we are not really > resposnsible for anything we do.. I know this is going > to shock the pants off most so called Advaitins ..but > I think we need to detach ourselves from the doer.. > Things are happening all around us ..wars..suffering > ..feelings..anger.. To whom are all these things > happening.. It is just a passing dream. Could any one > in this group have stopped Bush going to war on > Iraq.Bush himself couldn't have stopped himself.... > So all we can do is.. to just witness these > happenings in our lives as well as in the world.. Our > samskaras drive us to do the things we do.. but to > whom are these samskaras.. We need to do the vichara > but whatever has to comeabout in your life will happen > anyway..So there's no point in feeling guilty about > anything you do.. Try to be a witness of the actor on > the stage of life .. He is just doing his thing..going > through the motions.. Remember the truth we need to > drive home is that there is no doer..He is just a > figment of the mind and the mind itself is unreal.. > So one cannot go about saying that we are responsible > for the so called bad things we are doing.. We are > just not responsible for anything bad or good... In > his entire life Ramana never accused anyone of wrong > doing..He really believed in what he taught and was an > embodiment of it but some on this group are just > conditoned by their traditional beliefs and can't > shake them off. > alec Visit your group " Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 --- A M <anandaam (AT) googlemail (DOT) com> wrote: > If the urge arises to harm our neighbour, we should > let that urge act > itself out, is that it? Yet, if feelings of remorse > and guilt arise > afterwards we should make the effort not to feel > guilty by telling > ourselves we are not responsible for our actions??? > > A.M. > > On 23/04/06, alakeshwar jayanarayan > <alakeshwar > wrote: > > > > Dear Group, > > I personally believe that we are not > really > > resposnsible for anything we do.. I know this is > going > > to shock the pants off most so called Advaitins > ..but > > I think we need to detach ourselves from the > doer.. > > Things are happening all around us > ..wars..suffering > > ..feelings..anger.. To whom are all these things > > happening.. It is just a passing dream. Could any > one > > in this group have stopped Bush going to war on > > Iraq.Bush himself couldn't have stopped > himself.... > > So all we can do is.. to just witness these > > happenings in our lives as well as in the world.. > Our > > samskaras drive us to do the things we do.. but to > > whom are these samskaras.. We need to do the > vichara > > but whatever has to comeabout in your life will > happen > > anyway..So there's no point in feeling guilty > about > > anything you do.. Try to be a witness of the actor > on > > the stage of life .. He is just doing his > thing..going > > through the motions.. Remember the truth we need > to > > drive home is that there is no doer..He is just a > > figment of the mind and the mind itself is > unreal.. > > So one cannot go about saying that we are > responsible > > for the so called bad things we are doing.. We are > > just not responsible for anything bad or good... > In > > his entire life Ramana never accused anyone of > wrong > > doing..He really believed in what he taught and > was an > > embodiment of it but some on this group are just > > conditoned by their traditional beliefs and can't > > shake them off. > > alec > > Dear A.M. I didn't say anything of the sort..only that you haven't the power to act out your urges because of your conditioning and samskaras.. It is not in your power to do evil or good. Understanding this is important.. Ramana drilled this into everybody who came to see him.. We need to realize that there is no doer. alec Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 one question on Doership ... One reads of giving up the idea of doership, the idea of "I" and "mine". a) Am i right in thinking that the "I" and doership only dies at realization, (until then whatever you do is still with the idea of "I am doing" although it may be subtly hidden ??) b) Is non-doership letting things happen and then dealing with them, and by not choosing. e.g. i may not chose to talk with someone particular in a new group, i talk with whoever comes by. Or I might not initiate going out someplace, i let others decide. Is this how it works, or is this just a subtler doership at work ? If it is just a subtler doership, then is the attempt worth it ? a n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 It is very tricky and the best of them have got tricked in by this. It is so easy to say 'I am not the doer' and then do exactly what your ego asks you to do. Sachin ---- A M 04/25/06 03:33:06 RamanaMaharshi Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Doership- Are we responsible for our actions ? If the urge arises to harm our neighbour, we should let that urge act itself out, is that it? Yet, if feelings of remorse and guilt arise afterwards we should make the effort not to feel guilty by telling ourselves we are not responsible for our actions??? A.M. On 23/04/06, alakeshwar jayanarayan <alakeshwar > wrote: > > Dear Group, > I personally believe that we are not really > resposnsible for anything we do.. I know this is going Visit your group " Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Dear Rahul, In the initial stages of our efforts on this path, our minds are so obsessively active that it is difficult to comprehend that 'experience' is a combination of 'consciousness/awareness', 'ego', 'thought', 'emotions', 'the body', 'actions' and 'this world' - all being played simultaneously. What lies 'within' and 'beyond' is the SELFand SELF ALONE. It is not important to know whether we are responsible for our actions or not. What is important is consistency. If I want to believe that I am capable of thought and action, then I must take full responsibility for all the consequences, good, bad and ugly. If however, I begin to understand and accept that I can't choose my thoughts by the second, then I might conclude that probably some 'Force' is keeping my body and its paraphernalia going. In that case I should attribute the actions, the responsibility and the choice of the consequences upon me and others, entirely to that 'Force' So what is important is consistency. So long as the mind exists in the form I know it, 'doership' cannot be ignored as a concept. From the perspective of the SELF, nothing exists other than ITSELF and everything is merely 'conceived' by IT and played out 'within ITSELF'. It is akin to a myriad imaginary toys being motioned and contolled though a single all pervading remote control devise! May Bhagavan guide us! Regards Sivaramakrishna Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Dear All, As long as "I" is there then there is "ego". As long as "Ego" is there, then there is "desire/expectation". As long as desire is there, then there is "karmas", As long as "karma" is there then there is "result". This automatically lead to "rebirth" and no "salvation". We are already in the process of salvation and we have to come across all kinds of revolutionary process as per the creation of "Nature" by the Divine. Separation from the divine and merging with the divine is happening by its own. The only luck we have is during this process we are very very lucky enough to realise the "Self", if not the "Self" remins as it is. This is just like the "head" and "tail" of the same coin. As long as head is seen (after the toss), tail is hidden and viceversa. Same way as long as the "Wisdom" is realised there is no "Ignorance" and viceversa. Gnana (Wisdom) and Akgnana (Ignorance) are two states of same mind, in otherwords the mind disappear when full Gnana is attained. With Love, Alagesan... Ananda Natana <oneness.univ > wrote: one question on Doership ... One reads of giving up the idea of doership, the idea of "I" and "mine". a) Am i right in thinking that the "I" and doership only dies at realization, (until then whatever you do is still with the idea of "I am doing" although it may be subtly hidden ??) b) Is non-doership letting things happen and then dealing with them, and by not choosing. e.g. i may not chose to talk with someone particular in a new group, i talk with whoever comes by. Or I might not initiate going out someplace, i let others decide. Is this how it works, or is this just a subtler doership at work ? If it is just a subtler doership, then is the attempt worth it ? a n Visit your group "RamanaMaharshi" on the web. RamanaMaharshi P.Alagesan, HP 93847460 Singapore. CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium. Jiyo cricket on India cricket Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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