aay 'mother'

[Guest guest]

It seems "aay" is the word for mother in old Tamil.

 

Consider the words:

"taay" = mother

"jnaay" = your mother

"yaay" = my mother

 

In all this, "aay" is the operative root.

Mother's mother is "ammaayi".

 

It looks "aay/aayi" is related with the North Indian word, "baayi"

I don't know the reason for b- in baayi. Is baayi < vaayi?

For *vaayi 'mother' parallels, I'm thinking something like

Mysore kings' title WoDeyAr (cf. tamil 'uTaiyAr').

 

Your thoughts are appreciated,

Kind regards,

N. Ganesan

 

PS: 'ai' = father, 'elder' brother

[Guest guest]

CTamil, lsrinivas wrote:

> To the contrary, I think 'Ay' is quintessentially Tamil. It is a

>word which is seen more in bound forms viz., tAy, JAy, yAy etc.

>tAi is used in Marathi for ladies of a certain age. Ladies who

>think themselves to be not of that age object vigorously to being

> addressed 'tAi' :-) All the kinship terms of Dr like annA, akkA,

> appA, Ay etc are used in ordinary Marathi.

>

> It is however hard to see where 'bAi' comes from.

>

> Similarly, we have the basic word, "kai" to indicate

> a 'girl', 'woman' etc but again it is seen more in bound forms

> like 'taGkai', 'naGkai', 'maGkai' but the word 'kaimpeN' also

>exists.

 

I also read that 'kai' is woman. Is it because of this

bangles are considered the symbols of marriage in sangam texts?

In recent decades many early memorial stones, commonly called

maasati-kal(lu) (< mahAsatI) have been found. The thatch sheds

are called "tI pAyntAL (or 'pAJcamman') kOvil". In the

memorial stones dedicated to those committed satI, the

symbol is hand with many bangles. This recalls the

hands carved on the walls of palaces etc. in Rajasthan

in memory of women who died along with their husbands.

 

kai as women is seen in CT words like kaimmai 'widowhood',

kai-aRu-nilai, kai-kiLai, etc. We have poems refering to satI

custom in sangam corpus. Contrary to 19th century British

collectors saying that satI came from North, I think

satI is one of the important substratum effects from

Dravidians who went thru' a language shift in first millennium BCE.

 

Like Caste (see my next message), satI is basically Drav. custom.

 

>

> Likewise, 'ampi', 'umpi', tampi','nampi' etc where the basic word is

> seen in paiyan, payal etc.

>

> Multiple formations like this have been called Dr by KVZ etc and in

> fact, forms the basis for one etymology propsoed by KVZ for "tamiz"

> (< tamizi = tam + mizi (= mozi) "own speech").

 

---------------------

 

CTamil, "Periannan Chandrasekaran" <perichandra>

wrote:

>

> Things are not so complicated.

> The kai in 'taGkai' has not been considered related to the use of

> the -kai in naGkai and maGkai.

>

> 'kai' among others has the sense of 'small", "little" etc. probably

> from kai = hand(ful).

> MTL/OTL:

>

> kai

>

> otl kai kai 05 1. hand, arm; ... 21. handful; 22. hands, workmen,

> assistants; 23. littleness, smallness; ..26. younger sister

>

> A free form use of it is attested in the following famous

> puRapporuL veNpA mAlai verse:

> "

> poyyakala nALum pukaz viLaittal en2 viyappAm

> vaiyakam pOrtta vayaGkoli nIr - kai akalak

> kal tOn2Ri maN tOn2Rak kAlattE vALoTu

> mun2 tOn2Ri mUtta kuTi"

>

> The second line means

> [world enveloping shining sonorous water - little receding]

> "As the ocean covering the earth receded a little..."

>

> So taGkai = tam + kai = one's younger one.

>

>

 

I think Sri. LS is right in taking 'kai' as woman.

kai is found not only in taGkai 'younger sister',

but in 'akkai' (=akkA, akkanmAr, tamakkai) as well.

Bangles in kai ('hand') to denote married status,

and the represention of satI women with hands

also point to 'kai' (hand and woman as well) support

this claim.

 

Regards,

N. Ganesan