[INDOLOGY @ ] "Semitic religions"?

[Guest guest]

Dear naga ganesan,

This reference to dualism was fascinating, could you

please elaborate on this a bit and maybe suggest a

feww reference for the ignorant ones like me..

looking forward....

v

 

--- naga_ganesan wrote: >

> Dualism - sharp focusing and differentiating

> between

> good and evil, light vs. darkness, is seen in RV

> and Avestan

> gathas. Many academic books have been published

> about

> the entry of the "duality" idea in the Bible

> from the Near East.

> The last chapter on apocalypse is said to be an

> influence

> from this aspect of Zoroasterism, and many books

> detailing this

> are available.

>

> The duality of black vs. white equated with evil

> vs. good

> is absent in old Tamil literature. For the

> duality entering

> from Near East into the Bible, I, among others,

> have given

> references

> in a series, "Black as Evil" and so on from

> INDOLOGy at Liverpool

> website.

>

> What I find interesting is that the growth of

> Indo-Aryan

> languages in India was accompanied by

> emphasizing the

> Duality aspects. Just as Black vs. White

> dualism,

> there are two more: 1) the Indus valley tantra

> aspects

> put down vs. Ascetism and 2) the bull-man cult

> of NE/IVC

> submerged vs. Cow venerated in the RV. Contrast

> this

> with the fact that no cows are represented in

> Indus seals.

>

> Regards,

> N. Ganesan

> indictraditions, Michael Witzel

> <witzel@f...> wrote:

> > SEMITIC RELIGIONS?

> >

> > On this and on some other related lists, the

> view has been uttered

> > repeatedly that it was the Semitic (or 'Semetic'

> or even 'Semtic'!!)

> > religions that have formed the European

> (Christian) world view, a

> > view that was increasingly introduced in India by

> the educational

> >changes instigated and institutionalized by

> Macaulay in the 1830s.

> >

> > Forgetting, for the moment, the heated

> contemporary debates inside

> >the British colonial service (of the E. India

> Company) and beyond, it

> >must be pointed out that there is nothing

> specifically "Semitic"

> >about the European point of view. The Semites, in

> case the ancient

> >Hebrews and later on the Arabs, took over much of

> their view of the

> >world directly or indirectly ...from the Aryans.

> >

> > I am speaking of course of Zarathustra. Being a

> Eastern Iranian, he

> >is as good an Arya as any Rigvedic poet. The Avesta

> and the Old

> >Persian inscriptions call their own peoples "Ariia,

> Ariya," just as

> >the Rigvedic and later Vedic peoples call

> themselves "Arya" and as

> >they all call their speech "Aryan speech."

> >

> > To begin with, if one reads the Gathas of

> Zoroaster even just a

> >little bit, one will discover that they contain

> much of the same

> >language, religion and ritual as the Rigvedic

> hymns: there is god

> > Ahura (the still *positive* Asura of the Rigveda),

> Airyaman

> >(Aryaman), there are the Haoma (Soma) and Fire

> rituals, there is

> >the Zaotar (Hotar) priest such as Zoroaster

> himself,

> > there is Asha (from *arta, = Rta 'active Truth'),

> etc. etc.

> >

> > What is new in Zarathustra's teaching is his

> insistence on the

> >INDIVIDUAL CHOICE his followers have to make

> between 'good' and

> >'evil'. Asha (Rta, active Truth) and Druj (Druh,

> active Untruth,

> >Deceit) are of course prominent Rigvedic concepts

> as well, but

> >Rigvedic people were not as pressed by their

> poets/priests to adjust

> >as the early Zoroastrians were. And they were not

> as condemned if

> >they did not always follow the path of Rta.

> Vasistha himself

> >suspects that he did not (RV 7.88-89) and he asks

> > Varuna for forgiveness and release from

> druh/anrta-induced illness.

> >

> > But Zarathustra says, quoting Helmt Humbach's

> translation of

> >Zarathustra's Gathas, Yasna 30.3-4 :

> >

> > "(3) There are the two spirits (present) in the

> primal (stage of

> one's

> > existence), twins who had become famed

> (manifesting themselves as)

> the two

> > (kinds of) dreams, the two (kinds of) thoughts

> and words, (and the

> two

> > kinds of) actions, the better and the evil.

> > And between these two, the munificent discriminate

> rightly, (but)

> not the

> > miserly.

> > (4) And when these two spirits confront each

> other (to vie for a

> person),

> > then (that person) decides (of what nature will

> be) the primal

> (stage of

> > his existence):

> > vitality and lack of vitality, and (on the other

> hand) of what

> nature (his)

> > existence will be in the end:

> > that of the deceitful (will be) the worst, but

> best thought will (be

> in

> > store) for the truthful one....

> > (31.20) He who may approach the truthful one,

> splendor will be his

> > (reward), (as contrasted) with weeping.

> > A long life in darkness, foul food (and ) the

> word 'woe": to that

> > existence (your) religious view will lead, O you

> deceitful, on

> account of

> > your own actions" ... " etc. etc.

> >

> > Sounds familiar?

> >

> > If the whole of the Avestan corpus would be

> compared, we would

> discover :

> > the good Spirit and the evil Spirit, the future

> Savior from the East

> (Hamum

> > lake), the guardian spirits, the final judgment,

> the falling into

> molten

> > iron of the wicked at the time of judgment, the

> reaching of

> paradise -- an

> > Iranian word anyhow: pari-daeza 'the enclosed

> (park)' etc. etc.

> >

> > In other words, it was not a Semitic perspective,

> it rather was the

> Eastern

> > Iranian, Aryan Zarathustra who 'invented' this

> "Semitic" religion

> by

> > emphasizing certain aspects of traditional Aryan

> religion and

> deemphasizing

> > others.

> >

> > The ancient Hebrews copied a lot of it under the

> late Mesopotamian

> and

> > early Persian kingfs in the 7th and 6th centuries

> BCE, so that the

> > Essenes, contemporaries of Jesus, often sound more

> Iranian than

> Jewish (a

> > fact usually overlooked by most Christians, or PBS

> for that matter!)

> >

> > Fact is, that the whole of the Near East was a

> huge hotchpotch at

> that

> > time, with ideas being copied left and right by

> all people involved,

> --

>

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