Guest guest Posted May 6, 2001 Report Share Posted May 6, 2001 Dear all, Sorry for being away from the fascinating discussions, I was kind buried under a sacred mountain of books, there is a very interesting comparitive anthropological treatise on flower symbolism: `Culture of flowers' which is also historical and inter-religious in its orientation also, a very fascinating book, i read it a couple of years ago, I think it is either by Jack goody or anthony good, either ways a `good' is involved! I am kind of displaced person at Oxford, the British airways has restrictions on how many books you can carry in their flights....obviously not book-lovers! There is another interesting indological book by Banwari titled `Pancavati' which is on tree symbolism, there is a lot in Frazer's magnum opus the `Sacred Bough' also... Turner is also good...but there is another recent one called the `Culture of trees' edited by Laura Rival if you want to see things in cross-cultural comparison, there is another book edited by Klauss Seeland `Nature is to Culture' which has a paper on mahua flowers and tree marriage by Mihir Jena..... I will be interested in the Sangam literature, unfortunately due to the north-south divide, I have not been exposed to Dravidian literature as much as... By the way there is lot of Lotus symbolism in Tibetan culture which is incidentally reverses the Indic culture, so I guess knowing one makes the understanding of the other easy...although Tibatan language is more crazy, sanskrit is very logical and mathematical....and there is lot of lotus symbolism in Tibetan poetry as in Indian and tribal motifs..flowers emerge as intricably linked to fertility and most cultures work with some logic of colours as in opposing colours to express their thought as Levi-strauss has put forward the idea of raw and cooked food, white-black etc. by this I donot mean hierarchical evaluations btw the two but the principle of binary oppositions by which the human mind works and which even the cognitivists acknowledge. with best wishes vibha --- naga_ganesan wrote: > > The flower symbolism in sangam texts seems > to be very sophisticated and subtle. The blue-black > water lily stands for the wife of the land lord > ('talaivan'), > propably a cross-cousin (Cf. Trautmann, Drav. > kinship). > On the opposite side, is the red lotus which denotes > prostitutes, public women etc. in internal > metaphors. > The black is 'passive', and like clouds or black > earth > represents fertility where the family line is > carried, > Red is 'active' and enjoyment. In medieval times, > devadasis > in temples were forbidden to have children. In the > South, they were not considered official descendents > of the rich. > > While Lakshmi is lotus-lady, Sarasvati/Vac is > connected > with lotuses also (Eg., padmapuranam). Sarasvati and > Durga pujas are celebrated during Vijayadasami > festival. > A. Parpola connects Sarasvati/vAc/sAvitri with > Durga: > VAc as a Goddess of Victory in the Veda and her > relation to Durga, Zinbun (Annals of the Institute > for > Research in Humanities, Kyoto University), vol. 34 > no.2 > (1999) [2000], p. 101-143. > > Durga is Indian counterpart of Inana/Ishtar. > In an essay with pictures, I try to connect the > lotus symbolism with the bull-man cult in ancient > times. It looks proto-tantra type rituals were > present then. > > In the Indology archives, I came across a book title > that may be useful in decoding the flower symbolism > of sangam texts. I've to read V. Turner's book, The > forest > of symbols Aspects of Ndembu ritual. > > Need more references where tribes from different > parts of the > world use flowers as symbols, specific to individual > cultures. > > Does not A. K. Ramanujan talk about the flower > symboloism > somewhere?? > > Like Vibha Arora saying that more about India is > available at Oxford, > A. K. Ramanujan discovered Tamil in Chicago. > http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/southasia/50yrs2.html > << > An interviewer once asked Ramanujan to discuss the > affinity between > his poetic sensibility and the sensibilities of the > classical Tamil > poems he translated so > beautifully. He answered: > > Look at the classical Tamil poems, their > attention to experience. > These poems attracted me by their attitude to > experience, to human > passion and to the external world.... Their > attention to the object > is not to create the `object' of the Imagist, but > the object as > enacting human experience: the scene always a part > of the human scene, > the poetry of objects always a part of the human > perception of self > and others. > > This seemed to me an extraordinary way of > writing poetry. I came > upon these first century poems in Chicago. I started > reading them, > hesitantly, not being formally trained in classical > Tamil. I was > amazed at the transparency of the poems, the > sophistication of the > early commentators. And so I acquired some facility > in reading them by > teaching nothing else for some time. My training as > a linguist and my > experience as a native Tamil speaker surely were a > help. When I > started translating them, I found that there were > any number of poems > which I would have liked to have written myself. I > do not translate > out of love but out of envy, out of a kind of > aggression towards these > great poems. I think one translates out of a need to > appropriate > someone else's creation, done better than one could > ever do. The > ability to engage entirely the world of things, > animals, trees and > people, attending to their particularity, making > poetry out of it and > making them speak for you -- this seems to me > extraordinary. > >> > > Thanks for any ref. dealing with flower or color > symbolism/semiotics among peoples, tribes and > literatures. > > Regards, > N. Ganesan > > > Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:07:30 +0100 > Indology > <INDOLOGY > Sender: Indology > <INDOLOGY > Jan Dvorak <Jan.Dvorak > Pandanus '98: publication > announcement > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 > > PUBLICATION ANNOUNCEMENT > > Vacek, Jaroslav and Knotkova-Capkova, Blanka (eds): > Pandanus '98. Flowers, Nature, Semiotics – Kavya > and Sangam. > Signeta, Prague (Czech Republic), 1999. > 135 x 190 mm, 180 pp., paperback. > ISBN 80-902608-1-0 > > The first PANDANUS workshop on flower and natural > symbolism in the > classical Indian literatures took place in May 1998 > in Prague. All > the presented papers now appear in a volume > entlitled PANDANUS '98. > Flowers, Nature, > Semiotics – Kavya and Sangam. For more information > about the PANDANUS > project, visit http://www.cuni.cz/ffiu/pandanus. > > CONTENTS: > > Preface > G. Boccali: Rain Poems and the Genesis of Kavya > J. Dvorak: Neem and Campaka in Classical Indian > Literatures > B. Knotkova-Capkova: Some Remarks on Literary > Analysis of the > Symbolical Patterns in Ancient Tamil Poetry > B. Kolver: Ambiguities, Polysemy, and > Identifications > G. Pellegrini: Sattasai and palai poems of > Ainkurunuru > J. Vacek: A Neytal Feature to Be Found in the > Meghaduta? > J. Cejka: Plants in Kavya Poetry: Problems with > Plant-Names > > To get the book, you can (a) visit > http://www.volny.cz/signeta and > submit an on-line order; (b) contact your > bookseller. The price is EUR > 12.00 (USD 12.00) incl. VAT (EUR 11.43 neto). > > > Jan Dvorak > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > > indology > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > __________ Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2001 Report Share Posted May 6, 2001 Vibha Arora wrote: > By the way there is lot of Lotus symbolism in Tibetan > culture which is incidentally reverses the Indic > culture, so I guess knowing one makes the > understanding of the other easy... Not quiet sure you mean by this statement -- "reflects" for "reverses" perhaps ? Since lotuses are not exactly common in Tibet, it is hardly surprising that their symbolism, as with much else, has much in common with Indian, specifically Buddhist, antecedents. > although Tibatan > language is more crazy, sanskrit is very logical and > mathematical....and there is lot of lotus symbolism in > Tibetan poetry I am sure you are just joking about the Tibetan language -- it is just as logical in its own way as Sanskrit and much much easy to master and understand. From a Tibetan viewpoint, one might say (with as little justification) that Sanskrit is cold and mechanical while Tibetan is subtle and lyrical. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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