[Y-Indology] tabala percussion instrument

[Guest guest]

--- naga_ganesan wrote:

 

> Considering that drum names in tamil are formed

from

> roots

> like paTuttal/taputtal 'diminishing/quenching', and

> tapalai/tavalai

> is used for drums, is the Avadhi word 'tabala' have

> a

> Dravidian connection?

 

Considering the legend that Amir Khusro invented the

tabla by splitting the pakhawaj, and keeping in mind

that Platt derives it from Farsi and/or Arabic, the

Turkish [linguistic] connection is worth looking into.

The Turkish word for drum is <davul>, and <duvulcu> in

that language is a drummer. The Hindi word for a tablA

player is <tabalcI>.

 

The Hindi word DaphlI/DhaplI [a drum] could have a

Dravidian connection. [The Drummers in the

Hindi-speaking Middle India belong to castes and

tribes traditionally/theoretically associated with

speakers of a Dravidian language]. The potters, too,

in Middle India have similar affliations. The word

<tabelA> [a sallow cooking pot like <taslA>] might be

of Dravidian origin.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Jogesh Pandah

 

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Jogesh Panda wrote:

 

 

> Considering the legend that Amir Khusro invented the

> tabla by splitting the pakhawaj,

 

there is no evidence to substantiate the story.

Tabla and sitar were popularised by Khusro Khan of

18th century, neither instrument is seen in any of the

thousands of medieval indian miniature paintings.

 

The double drum is found in 9th century sculptural details

(an example available in NDelhi Museum) but its name of

description is not fond in texts like SangitaRatnaakar.

 

 

> and keeping in mind

> that Platt derives it from Farsi and/or Arabic, the

> Turkish [linguistic] connection is worth looking into.

 

tabl is persian for drum. But that does not mean that

a particular instrument came from persia. For that

one would have to look into the history of persian

musical instruments fron 11th to 18th century.

 

> The Turkish word for drum is <davul>, and <duvulcu> in

> that language is a drummer. The Hindi word for a tablA

> player is <tabalcI>.

 

this word entered Turkey and Greece from India. It is

an mediterranean adaptation indic dhol.

 

 

> The Hindi word DaphlI/DhaplI [a drum] could have a

> Dravidian connection.

 

Daph is turkish/persian. Medieval indian lists of

musicians contain names of 'daphzan', female players

of the daph, still widely used in Turkey and Greece.

 

> [The Drummers in the

> Hindi-speaking Middle India belong to castes and

> tribes traditionally/theoretically associated with

> speakers of a Dravidian language].

 

Caste had nothing to do with names and shapes of

instruments. 'Bint' was an ancient Egyptain harp.

 

Were all ancient indian vi.naa players Egyptians, then ?

 

 

> The potters, too,

> in Middle India have similar affliations. The word

> <tabelA> [a sallow cooking pot like <taslA>] might be

> of Dravidian origin.

 

tabl and tasht are both persian, as far as i know.

 

unless pre-persian-arabic dravidian (tamil?)/ sumerian origin is

found for tabl and tasht, it seems one would have to be

content with the fact that there was a big persian

impact on the grammar and terminology on indic music

from 12th century onwards.

 

regards,

 

 

--

Bharat Gupt

Associate Professor, Delhi University,

PO Box 8518, Ashok Vihar, Delhi 110052 INDIA.

mobile:9810077914

home phones 91+11+724 1490, fax/TEL 741-5658,

email: bharatgupt

homepage: http://personal.vsnl.com/bharatgupt

[Guest guest]

At 09:23 AM 6/28/01 -0700, you wrote:

 

>--- naga_ganesan wrote:

>

> > Considering that drum names in tamil are formed

>from

> > roots

> > like paTuttal/taputtal 'diminishing/quenching', and

> > tapalai/tavalai

> > is used for drums, is the Avadhi word 'tabala' have

> > a

> > Dravidian connection?

>

>Considering the legend that Amir Khusro invented the

>tabla by splitting the pakhawaj,

 

I'm sorry that I cannot help with etymology, but the Khusraw idea should be

considered as just legend. Apart from the silence of contemporary and even

substantially later sources on the tabla, and its absence from the

iconographic record, like many of Khusraw's attributed inventions, the

tabla receives no mention in his writings (nor does the sitar or the

khayal). The attribution is retrospective.

 

In Wade's recent "Imaging Sound" she gives tabl as a generic term for drums

in early Mughal usage: I think she also implies it is generic in Arabic,

and traceable to at least the 10th century (she cites Farmer's "History of

Arabian Music". The Ain-i-Akbari doesn't mention the tabla, but Faqirullah

(Risala-i-ragardarpana of 1666), defines the Awaj as looking "like two

tablas joined together at the bottom". Rebecca Stewart in a 1974

dissertation, which I haven't got at hand, dates it somewhat later.

 

Thanking everyone for an interesting thread.

 

John Napier