Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Dear list members, I was looking up the meaning of the word pratIhAra "doorkeeper" in Monier-Williams and at the top of the entry it has: pratI in comp. for prati (cf. pAnini 6,3,122) Katre's translation for 6,3,122 has: 6.3.122 upa-sarg-'a-sya ghaJ-i='a-manuSy-e bahul'a-m [A substitute long vowel 111] variously (bahul'a-m) [replaces the final vowels 1.1.52 of] preverb particles (upa-sarg-'a-sya) [before 1.1.66 a posterior member 1 ending in 1.1.72 the affix 3.1.1] ghaJ, except when denoting a human being ('a-manuSy-e) [in continuous utterance 114]. Since pratIhAra with meaning "doorkeeper" is a human being is this an exception or unpaninian usage? Many thanks, Harry Spier 371 Brickman Rd. Hurleyville, New York USA 12747 _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Hello Harry, It is possible that the original meaning of pratihaara/pratiihaara was more like "door/gate" and that it was later extended to "door-keeper". This meaning of door seems to have been preserved in Kaalidaasa's usages like pratihaarabhuumi (Kumaarasambhava 3.58, Raghuvamza 6.31)and pratihaararak.sii (Raghu. 6.20). Other, unrelated meanings of the word pratiihaara are attested in the Rk-praatizaakhya etc. For fuller attestations, see Sanskrit Woerterbuch, Boehtlingk-Roth. Monier-Williams does not even list pratihaara. Panini's rule (and Kaatyaayana's vaarttika 2: prativezaadiinaam vibhaa.saa) allow a general pattern, without authorizing specific words. The vaarttika seems to refer to a Ga.na, but no such Ga.na is listed in the Ga.napaa.tha. Madhav Deshpande INDOLOGY, "Harry Spier" <harryspier@H...> wrote: > Dear list members, > > I was looking up the meaning of the word pratIhAra "doorkeeper" in > Monier-Williams and at the top of the entry it has: > pratI in comp. for prati (cf. pAnini 6,3,122) > > Katre's translation for 6,3,122 has: > 6.3.122 upa-sarg-'a-sya ghaJ-i='a-manuSy-e bahul'a-m > [A substitute long vowel 111] variously (bahul'a-m) [replaces the final > vowels 1.1.52 of] preverb particles (upa-sarg-'a-sya) [before 1.1.66 a > posterior member 1 ending in 1.1.72 the affix 3.1.1] ghaJ, except when > denoting a human being ('a-manuSy-e) [in continuous utterance 114]. > > Since pratIhAra with meaning "doorkeeper" is a human being is this an > exception or unpaninian usage? > > Many thanks, > > Harry Spier > 371 Brickman Rd. > Hurleyville, New York > USA 12747 > > > _______________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 INDOLOGY, mmdesh@U... wrote: > It is possible that the original meaning of > pratihaara/pratiihaara was more like "door/gate" and that it was > later extended to "door-keeper". This meaning of door seems to have > been preserved in Kaalidaasa's usages like pratihaarabhuumi > (Kumaarasambhava 3.58, Raghuvamza 6.31)and pratihaararak.sii (Raghu. > 6.20). Is it possible this prati 'door/gate' is related with Tamil paTi. From Tamil lexicon, paTi = step, stair, ladder-rung, sill, verandah, low platform. Also, paTikar = gatekeeper, paTikAran2 = gatekeeper (OTL). (Cf. pratimA with tamil paTimai 'icon'). Regards, N. Ganesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 INDOLOGY, "Harry Spier" <harryspier@H...> wrote: > Dear list members, > > I was looking up the meaning of the word pratIhAra "doorkeeper" in > Monier-Williams and at the top of the entry it has: > pratI in comp. for prati (cf. pAnini 6,3,122) VA: The PratihAra dynasty of Rajputs (note the hrasva 'i' in lieu of the diirgha) is also said to have had that name because they were at the doorstep of Hindustan, being rulers of the environs Delhi. Thus,in some history books, the word is taken to mean 'doorkeeper' as they supposedly kept at bay the invaders from Central Asia for some time and prevented them from penetrating the heartland of India. Note that the word 'Delhi' is also sometimes derived from 'dehlIja' meaning the doorstep, (or the transition between the 'outside' area and the inner home). [This is probably a folk etymology for Delhi. Some other words are also quoted to derive Delhi. e.g. Dhillika] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2001 Report Share Posted September 6, 2001 I would not be surprised if Skt. pratihaara/pratiihaara in the sense of door/doorkeeper is a Sanskritization of some non-IA expression, especially since I don't see a good semantic connection of these meanings with the verb prati+h.r. Madhav Deshpande INDOLOGY, naga_ganesan@h... wrote: > INDOLOGY, mmdesh@U... wrote: > > > It is possible that the original meaning of > > pratihaara/pratiihaara was more like "door/gate" and that it was > > later extended to "door-keeper". This meaning of door seems to have > > been preserved in Kaalidaasa's usages like pratihaarabhuumi > > (Kumaarasambhava 3.58, Raghuvamza 6.31)and pratihaararak.sii (Raghu. > > 6.20). > > Is it possible this prati 'door/gate' is related > with Tamil paTi. From Tamil lexicon, > paTi = step, stair, ladder-rung, sill, verandah, > low platform. > > Also, paTikar = gatekeeper, paTikAran2 = gatekeeper (OTL). > > (Cf. pratimA with tamil paTimai 'icon'). > > Regards, > N. Ganesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2001 Report Share Posted September 8, 2001 Apart from paTimai(tamil)/pratimA(skt.), and paTikar etc. = gatekeeper, the word for ports come to mind. paTi 'step' is perhaps connected with 'paTTin2am' (seashore town, port). Eg., kAviri-paTTin2am, at the mouth of River Kaveri in the Bay of Bengal. Is the city of DvArakA named after 'door', 'doorstep'? Compare paTTin2am at the Kaveri's confluence and, dvArakA place name. One Sangam tamil text is paTTin2a-p-pAlai. Chalukyas are said to be vELir chieftains in ancient Tamil nighaNTus like PiGkalantai, and their capital is named Dvarasamudra (after the historical memory comig from Krishna's Dwaraka). Sangam tamil texts praise vELir chieftains as 49th generation of those who moved South. Agastya and Krishna also figure in the legends. An exchange between S. Krishna & Jayabarathi http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-shl/WA.EXE?A2=ind9805&L=indology&P=R957 Regards, N. Ganesan INDOLOGY, mmdesh@U... wrote: > I would not be surprised if Skt. pratihaara/pratiihaara in the >sense of door/doorkeeper is a Sanskritization of some non-IA >expression, especially since I don't see a good semantic > connection of these meanings with the verb prati+h.r. > > Madhav Deshpande > > INDOLOGY, naga_ganesan@h... wrote: > > > > Is it possible this prati 'door/gate' is related > > with Tamil paTi. From Tamil lexicon, > > paTi = step, stair, ladder-rung, sill, verandah, > > low platform. > > > > Also, paTikar = gatekeeper, paTikAran2 = gatekeeper (OTL). > > > > (Cf. pratimA with tamil paTimai 'icon'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2001 Report Share Posted September 8, 2001 hi "pratihAra = door keeper",this is one possible meaning of the word,but prati+hAraH also stands for a community of kshatriya"martial race",who fought with muslim invaders for centuries and secrified thier life for saving the nation.pratiharan also stands for opposing the theft or steelings etc..,you must consider this meaning also while reaching to any conclusion. spsharma INDOLOGY, "Harry Spier" <harryspier@H...> wrote: > Dear list members, > > I was looking up the meaning of the word pratIhAra "doorkeeper" in > Monier-Williams and at the top of the entry it has: > pratI in comp. for prati (cf. pAnini 6,3,122) > > Katre's translation for 6,3,122 has: > 6.3.122 upa-sarg-'a-sya ghaJ-i='a-manuSy-e bahul'a-m > [A substitute long vowel 111] variously (bahul'a-m) [replaces the final > vowels 1.1.52 of] preverb particles (upa-sarg-'a-sya) [before 1.1.66 a > posterior member 1 ending in 1.1.72 the affix 3.1.1] ghaJ, except when > denoting a human being ('a-manuSy-e) [in continuous utterance 114]. > > Since pratIhAra with meaning "doorkeeper" is a human being is this an > exception or unpaninian usage? > > Many thanks, > > Harry Spier > 371 Brickman Rd. > Hurleyville, New York > USA 12747 > > > _______________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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