Guest guest Posted September 30, 2001 Report Share Posted September 30, 2001 What are the ancient sources (in Sanskrit, Pali and Greek) say about the placename, Kandahar in Afghanistan? Is it related with Skanda whom the southerners worship as Murukan? Thanks, N. Ganesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2001 Report Share Posted October 1, 2001 According to oral traditions, the name derives from the word 'Kand' meaning 'wall' (in Punjabi, and also Saraiki spoke by Hindus of the region who might have migrated from Multan area). This suits well with the high/massive fortifications (the site of numerous wars between Moghul and Persian emperors) and the topography of the area. Till recently, the area had a flourishing Hindu-Sikh community and virtually all have been ethnically cleansed in recent times by Islamists. The Hindu-Sikh refugees now live in Delhi (many of them my erstwhile neighbors)who speak Pashto or Jatki languages, or have emigrated to other places like Germany. Hope this helps, Vishal INDOLOGY, naga_ganesan@h... wrote: > > What are the ancient sources (in Sanskrit, Pali and Greek) say about > the placename, Kandahar in Afghanistan? Is it related with > Skanda whom the southerners worship as Murukan? > > Thanks, > N. Ganesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2001 Report Share Posted October 1, 2001 INDOLOGY, naga_ganesan@h... wrote: > > What are the ancient sources (in Sanskrit, Pali and Greek) say about > the placename, Kandahar in Afghanistan? Is it related with > Skanda whom the southerners worship as Murukan? > > Thanks, > N. Ganesan Derived from Gandhara possibly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 >I thought it was an ancient Alexandria or Alexandropolis (cf. >Iskander); or has this identification been disproven ? >I have also seen it derived from Gondophares. >Lance Cousins The identification that Kandahar as corruption from Alexandropolis, has no evidence to support that claim. James C. Harle, The art and architecture of the Indian subcontinent, Penguin, 1986, p. 22 "In 326 B.C., Alexander of Macedon marched into India and penetrated to the Beas river in the Panjab, the furthest reach of the greatest feat of arms in recorded history [13] ... Ashoka's edicts, engraved on pillars, rock surfaces, and tablets, have been found in almost every region of India except the far south, and as far west as Kandahar (often erroneously claimed to be a corruption of Alexandria in Arachosia) in present-day Afghanistan. [14]. [13] No trace of Alexander can be found in non-Muslim Indian history, literature, or art, with one possible exception: two or three figures or heads of the KuSANa period at Mathura wear ram's horns, and Alexander is often so portrayed, having been hailed by the Egyptian priests as an incarnation of the god Ammon, who wore them. [14] The name Kandahar is derived from GAndhAra, a nearby region (see p. 71). It first appears in a Persian manuscript of the thirteenth century." Please note that the ram-headed deity in India need not represent Egyptian god Ammon or thru' Egypt's Ammon, the Greek Alexander in Mathura sculptures. Ram or goat headed deities are common in India: Indus velley era has sculptures of ram-head clay masks (frontal and side views in A. Parpola, Deciphering the Indus sctript, p. 235). Jaina deity protecting children (Parpola, p. 238, "Fig. 13.17 The goat-headed fertility god NaigameSa is illustrated more than a dozen times in the early Jaina art of Mathura ... 'Lord NemeSa' (bhagavA nemeso), called so in the inscription beneath the deity, is shown enthroned and flanked by a child and female attendants." There are deities and composite animals wearing ram, markhor goat horns in Indus seals. Skanda-Murugan's important vAhanam is a ram in old Tamil literature, and in Tamil Nadu temples. Skanda who mounts the goat is a god of fertility, bringer and remover of diseases to children etc. in Indian texts. While connection to Alexander or kand 'wall' for the city name Kandahar is dubious, consider Skanda-Kartikeya, the youthful god of war and wisdom (jnAnapaNDita). The original connection of Kandahar with Skanda is possibly indicated by the myth taking Iskander/Alexander as an avatAr of Skanda-Kartikeya-Murukan. Great warriors have been said to be Skanda's avatArs in India. For example, jnAnasambandhar who in debates vanquished Jains leading to their impalement on stakes is said to be Murukan's avatAr in medieval tamil literature. For Skanda & KandahAr INDOLOGY/message/1622 Kandahar name appears in records only from 13th century. Any explanations of how kandahar can be derived from gAndhAra? Also, kandahar is not in gAndhAra region either. Regards, N. Ganesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2001 Report Share Posted October 10, 2001 LC>The evidence that supports this claim is that there was a city >called Alexandropolis at or near Kandahar in the Greek period. There >is no particular reason why a corrupted form of the name could not >have survived. This has nothing to do with memories of Alexander. >If reference to an Alexandria is a 'trace of Alexander', then this >is simply wrong. At least one and probably two Alexandrias are known >to Pali literature, for example, as Alasanda. Iranists do not consider that kandahAr represents Iskander/Alexander. For example, H. W. Bailey, The culture of the Sakas in ancient Iranian Khotan, gives a different meaning to kandahAr. "First as to Habitations. The city is called kantha-, a word widely found in the Iranian area to the present day as in the kand and kent of Yar-kand and Tash-kent, and in use in Ossetic of the last century as känt for 'building'. It is basically Iranian. From the time of Alexander of Macedon it has been familiar in the city name of Marakanda, the later Samar-kand, in Zor. Pahl. swmlknd, Arab and Persian samar-qand (replaced in Turkish by samïz-qand). The word kantha- became known to the India grammarian Panini of Salatura in the fourth or third century B.C. in North-West India..." "...The word kantha- is found in Sogdian kndh *kantha-, later kath and kand. Balochi has kept kant as a word for a village; New Persian kand 'village'; Pashto kandai 'part of a town'. In origin kantha- contains the base kan- 'to cover' of roofed buildings and thence to an aggregate to form a town..." South Indian scholars have speculated that kandahAra (Cf. agrahAra) may refer to Skanda, the Hindu god. And Skanda-Kartikeya's personality might have merged with that of Alexander legends later. INDOLOGY/message/1622 It's doubtful if the Mathuran ram-headed deities represent Egyptian Ammon, and Alexander. INDOLOGY/message/1631 Thanks for references to Alasanda in Pali literature, are there other details around it to confirm that Alasanda is Alexandria? Is this Alasanda(Alexandria) change to present day name - KandahAr? Any recent papers on Alexander in Afghan-Pakistan toponyms? It will be good if Indologists review all the available data. A ref. worth checking out would be: J. D. M. Derrett, Greece and India: the Milindapanha, the Alexander romance and the Gospels. ZRGG (Cologne), 19,1 (1967) 33-64. >Is there any evidence that the actual region of Gandhaara was >known as Kandahar or similar in Muslim times ? Haven't heard of any Muslim sources calling Gandhaara as Kandahaar. Hope Dr. Karttunen and the list tell more. Regards, N. Ganesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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