Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 >From the online version of the Pali Text Society's dictionary (link at bottom): Attha <<snip>> (also attha, esp. in combns mentioned under 3) (m. & nt.) [Vedic artha from r, arti & rnoti to reach, attain or to proceed (to or from), thus originally result (or cause), profit, attainment. Cp. semantically Fr. chose, Lat. causa] 3. sense, meaning, import (of a word), denotation, signification. In this application attha is always spelt attha in cpds. atth--uppatti and attha--katha (see below). [i.e., aTTha] <<snip>> --katha (attha°) exposition of the sense, explanation, commentary J V.38, 170; PvA 1, 71, etc. freq. in N. of Com http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/ddsa/getobject_?HTML.a.0:532./projects/artfl0/d\ atabases/dicos/philologic/pali/IMAGE/ Tim Lighthiser --- naga_ganesan <naga_ganesan wrote: > INDOLOGY, Tim Lighthiser > <lighthisertim> wrote: > > What is the current dating for the writing down of > the > > aTThakathA-s on the Theravada Abhidhamma-pitaka > and > > the rest of the Canon? > > Tamil has "aaTTam" (dance, play) from the verb, > "aaTu-" (to dance, to play). > Is aTTha in aTTha-kathA (paali) from Dravidian > aaTTam? > (Cf. kIrNa > kiNNa 'scattered', kUrma > kumma > 'tortoise' & so on). > > Thanks, > N. Ganesan > > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 INDOLOGY, Tim Lighthiser <lighthisertim> wrote: > From the online version of the Pali Text Society's > dictionary (link at bottom): > > Attha <<snip>> (also attha, esp. in combns mentioned > under 3) (m. & nt.) [Vedic artha from r, arti & rnoti > to reach, attain or to proceed (to or from), thus > originally result (or cause), profit, attainment. Cp. > semantically Fr. chose, Lat. causa] > > 3. sense, meaning, import (of a word), denotation, > signification. In this application attha is always > spelt attha in cpds. atth--uppatti and attha--katha > (see below). [i.e., aTTha] > > <<snip>> --katha (attha°) exposition of the sense, > explanation, commentary J V.38, 170; PvA 1, 71, etc. > freq. in N. of Com > > > http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/ddsa/getobject_?HTML.a.0:532./project s/artfl0/databases/dicos/philologic/pali/IMAGE/ > > Tim Lighthiser I could understand attha from skt. artha. How's the retroflex T in aTThakathA explained? The sense 3 << sense meaning, import (of a word), denotation, signification >>. Does this relate to abhinaya, in traditional catir-aaTTam (=bharata-nATyam), any word in the kathai is explained by intricate mudra and abhinaya. catir-aaTTam, tOlu-bommal-aaTTamu (Telugu) for shadow puppetry came to mind. Regards, ng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2002 Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 The variation like atthakathaa vs aTThakathaa is quite common in Pali. There is similar variation between Pali readings from Burma versus Pali readings from Sri Lanka. One finds this in words like pathavii/paThavii for Sanskrit p.rthvii. The r in the Sanskrit word artha is a suffficient reason for dialectal retroflexion in aTThakathaa. Madhav Deshp= ande INDOLOGY, "naga_ganesan" <naga_ganesan@h...> wrote: > INDOLOGY, Tim Lighthiser <lighthisertim> wrote: > > From the online version of the Pali Text Society's > > dictionary (link at bottom): > > > > Attha <<snip>> (also attha, esp. in combns mentioned > > under 3) (m. & nt.) [Vedic artha from r, arti & rnoti > > to reach, attain or to proceed (to or from), thus > > originally result (or cause), profit, attainment. Cp. > > semantically Fr. chose, Lat. causa] > > > > 3. sense, meaning, import (of a word), denotation, > > signification. In this application attha is always > > spelt attha in cpds. atth--uppatti and attha--katha > > (see below). [i.e., aTTha] > > > > <<snip>> --katha (attha°) exposition of the sense, > > explanation, commentary J V.38, 170; PvA 1, 71, etc. > > freq. in N. of Com > > > > > > > http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/ddsa/getobject_?HTML.a.0:532./ project > s/artfl0/databases/dicos/philologic/pali/IMAGE/ > > > > Tim Lighthiser > > I could understand attha from skt. artha. > How's the retroflex T in aTThakathA explained? > > The sense 3 << sense meaning, import (of a word), denotation, > signification >>. Does this relate to abhinaya, in > traditional catir-aaTTam (=bharata-nATyam), any word > in the kathai is explained by intricate mudra and abhinaya. > catir-aaTTam, tOlu-bommal-aaTTamu (Telugu) for shadow puppetry > came to mind. > > Regards, > ng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2002 Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 INDOLOGY, "deshpandem" <mmdesh@U...> wrote: > The variation like atthakathaa vs aTThakathaa is quite common > in Pali. There is similar variation between Pali readings from > Burma versus Pali readings from Sri Lanka. One finds this in > words like pathavii/paThavii for Sanskrit p.rthvii. The r in the > Sanskrit word artha is a suffficient reason for dialectal > retroflexion in aTThakathaa. > >Madhav Deshpande Thanks for the reply. Once Prof. G. v. Simson gave a reference: Burrow's paper on the these type of cerebral consonants. In tamil, a) kaTavu (gate in a fence), katavu (gate, doorway) b) paTalai:patalai, percussion instrument. In paripATal (sangam text), kattikai "a type of garland". Madras tami lexicon lists a latter attestation. kattikai:kaTTikai (kaTTu 'to tie' (flowers)). Regards, N. Ganesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2002 Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 ziliimukha INDOLOGY/message/1836 W.r.t sItA "a furrow or track of a ploughshare" INDOLOGY/message/1713 I was given some ref.s of T. Burrow. Got some private e-mails to give Burrow article details. -ng <<< NG>Tamil scholars like VaiyApuri Pillai >(Editor of Madras Univ. Tamil lexicon >in 7 volumes in 1930s, a classic) >connect "Er" ('plough') with skt. sIra 'plough'. >Sangam texts mention "Er". > >DED 2313 lists tamil Er 'plough, plough and >team of oxen, yoke of oxen', cEr id. (Jaffna), >Telugu Eru, Gondi sEr 'plough', Kui sEru >'a yoke of oxen', Kuwi hErU plough. The same idea occurred apparently also to T. Burrow, see BSOAS 12 (p. 141 and fn. 1, 395). >>> [...] <<< NG>-T-/-t- changes exist within Tamil: >a) paTalai = patalai = 'small drum' (sangam texts) >b) kaTavu 'entrance' and katavu 'door'. >yATu = goat, sheep, yATavar 'shepherd' >and because intervocalical -T- is pronounced >-D- in Tamil, D. McAlpin connects tamil yATavan >with skt. yAdava. You can see -T-/-t- even >in kIL-/kIT-, telugu has gIta 'line'. This happens occasionally also in sanskrit and prakrit, see T. Burrow, "Spontaneous cerebrals in Sanskrit", BSOAS 34 (1971), 538-59. >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2002 Report Share Posted November 4, 2002 Dear members of INDOLOGY, did I miss something or is there variation in the length of the initial in aTThakatha (Pali)? In Malayalam there is an expression, aaTTakkatha - a literary work meant for staging Kathakali [in NBS Malayalam English Dictionary by Madhavan Pillai 1976] which I have always thought to be a nominalization of the Dravidian verb aaTuka (the Malayalam version of NG's aaTu-) e.g. "to dance"+ Skt kathA. But could aaTTa [Malayalam] be possibly related to Skt aartha-, through some intervening stages, in this particular instance? Surely aaTTam as a noun and aaTu- as a verbal root are so much attested in Dravidian languages that their origin in general cannot be questioned. Regards, Jussi Nyblom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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