Buddhism - an Iranian heresy

[Guest guest]

George Thompson, in private correspondence, has remarked:

 

"Again, to call Buddhism an "Iranian heresy" is certainly tendentious and

provocative, but it is not entirely wrong."

 

And I agree; a playful rebound off prevailing Vedic edifice, according to which

- in any case - Buddhism is explicitly a heretical movement. However, what I

really find striking here is that those taking cover behind predictable

barricades face the additionally irksome prospect that their treasured national

heresiarch may very well turn out to be of non-Indian origin. Even more

undermining is the clear implication that the very notion of "India" itself is

largely a historical misnomer.

 

Nevertheless, I wonder why in spite of indisputable evidence of Iranian cultural

presence in ancient Magadha/Bihar, we repeatedly find the date "140 BCE" as the

starting point for mass Iranian migration into India? I refer to Michael Witzel:

 

Furthermore the tribal name of the Buddha, Sakya (Skt. Shakya), attested only in

post-Vedic times, in the Pali canon (approx. 250 BC), can not be separated from

the self-designation of the northern Iranians (Saka), who otherwise entered

India only after 140 BC., via Sistan.

http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0211&L=indology&P=R1051. (Italics

mine).

 

Perhaps it is just a matter of my lack of background knowledge (or worse) in

these matters, but would not Magadha have been a fully developed cultural sphere

even well before the traditionally accepted times of the quasi-historical

Buddha? For as George has plainly set forth, Magadha itself is an Avestan term:

 

Magus, "sun-priest" is not attested in Vedic [but] is a borrowing from Iranian

into Skt. [This] seems clear, esp. in light of the variant form magu (cf. Avest.

moGu, Old Pers. magu.

http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9805&L=indology&P=R28931&D=1&F=P&O=D.

 

I actually find the proposition quite endearing that to some degree the

code-word "Buddha" could very well represent a remotely undecipherable

compendium of Old Iranian asceto-shamano-philosophical lore.

 

Any thoughts?

 

_________

 

Troy Dean Harris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site

 

 

[Guest guest]

PLEASE NOTE THAT 'ARYA' IS TRANSLATED 'THE HOLY'. THE PATH

FROM THE SANSKRIT ROOT AR TO THE ASSOCIATED MEANING 'HOLY'

GOES STRAIGHT THROUGH ITS MEANING 'WHITE' AS IN 'PURE'.

THUS 'HOLY' MOTHER TARA IS CALLED 'ARYA TARA' OR 'WHITE

TARA'. THIS THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY DEFINITION OF 'ARYA'

AFFIRMS THE TERM ARYA OR ARYAN AS COMING FROM THE ROOT AR

MEANING 'WHITE', AND NOT FROM THE DEITY BIJA (SEED)-MANTRAM

NAME HAR, AS IN HARI (KRISHNA-VISHNU), HARA (SHIVA),

OR HRIH (AMITABHA-LOKESHVARA BUDDHA).

 

THIS UNIVERSAL DEITY NAME IS RELATED TO THE SUMERIAN

ILU, EAST AND WEST SEMITIC URI, ORI, ARI, ALI, ELI, MITANNI HURRI,

ZEND-AVESTAN HVARE, PRE-ZOROASTRIAN ZER, NILO-SAHARAN

(EGYPTIAN) HERI (HERU ETC.), NIGER OLU, ALE ETC., AND GRECO-

ROMAN HELI / SOLE.

 

I ASSERT THAT THE TERM ARYA IN REFERENCE TO THE SURA GANA,

HARYANA, HARI-JANA 'ARYANS' WHO WORSHIPED VISHNU, WAS LIKE

OTHER DEITY PATRONYMICS, IDENTIFYING THE PEOPLE OF-FROM OR

RELATED-TO THE SUPREME DEITY HARI, HERI HARA, ELI(JUDEO-

CHRISTIAN) , ALI (ALLAH) ETC. THUS THE BLACKS OF THE ANCIENT

NIGER AND NILO-SAHARAN LANGUAGE FAMILIES, THE SEMITES OF THE

LEVANT, AND THE 'INDO-EUROPEANS' ALL WORSHIPED THE

SAME SUPREME DEITY. TESTING THIS, I HAVE FOUND ENDLESS

INTERDISCIPLINARY PROOFS. THUS IT IS CLEAR THAT THE

VEDIC 'ARYAS' COULD HAVE BEEN ANY 'RACE', BECAUSE THE TERM

WAS A WORD OF ASSOCIATION IDENTIFYING SOMEONE OR GROUP

WITH THE SUPREME FATHER GOD OF ALL PEOPLES.

 

I myself saw the documents related to the "Aryan League" in

the "esoteric section" of the archive at the TS Adyar headquarters.

"The Aryan League is an Aryan racialist organization"

 

In fact anybody on this mailing list (or anybody in the world)

can by paying a small fee obtain following original document per

e-mail

if you order it on-line from the British Museum Library in London :

India Office Records, British Library, London: R/1/1/162

 

Colonel Henderson, attachée to the Foreign Department as an under

secretary to the government of India was put in charge as chief

investigator of the Duleep Singh revolt in India. Convinced of

Theosophical involvement in the plot, he wrote on 15 June 1887.

Regarding "information received on excellent authority,"

 

The report written by Henderson states: When Colonel Olcott was in

India in 1882-83, he founded a secret society among the Theosophists

in Calcutta called "The Aryan League of Honour."

 

An agent of the society was sent to England and is supposed to be the

medium, or one of the mediums, of transmitting information.

This man is one Mohini Mohun Chatterji, who worked for some time in

an attorney`s office at Calcutta. About four years ago he went to

England on the plea of being called to the Bar. I heard from England

myself that Mohini Mohun was in the habit of seeing a great deal of

Duleep Singh.

 

There is a prevailing impression, whether right or wrong, that the

members of the inner circle at any rate of that society have aims and

objects other than those ordinarily expressed. The information on

this subject, comes from so many sources that it is difficult to disregard.=

 

 

On 18 June, three days later, the deputy Police Commissioner of

Madras based on his own sources confirmed the above and wrote back

to Henderson: " only a few selected men were admitted, amongst

these were Narendo Nath Sen, the Editor of The India Mirror. Mohini

Mohun is one of their means of transmitting information, and his

brother, Romoni, also sends him news." (India Office Records,

British Library, London:R/1/1/162)

 

See also:

 

http://www.geocities.com/aryannews/europe.htm

 

The above is in line with statements in the publications of the TS

today (Nov. 2002) and other aryanist (including some Bhramanical

groups) in India and Pakistan that: "As the comparatively fair Brahmins

have come - when invading India with its dark-colored Dravidians -

from the North, so the Aryan Fifth Race must claim its origin from

northern regions." (published in India and elsewhere

Nov. 2002)

 

It should be noted that in most countries where it survives today

"The Aryan League International" as Colonel Henderson describes in

above, that time itself a secret communiqué "a secret

society"

 

INDOLOGY, troy dean harris <troyoga> wrote:

>

>

>

> George Thompson, in private correspondence, has remarked:

>

> "Again, to call Buddhism an "Iranian heresy" is certainly tendentious

and provocative, but it is not entirely wrong."

>

> And I agree; a playful rebound off prevailing Vedic edifice, according

to which - in any case - Buddhism is explicitly a heretical movement.

However, what I really find striking here is that those taking cover

behind predictable barricades face the additionally irksome prospect that

their treasured national heresiarch may very well turn out to be of non-

Indian origin. Even more undermining is the clear implication that the

very notion of "India" itself is largely a historical misnomer.

>

> Nevertheless, I wonder why in spite of indisputable evidence of

Iranian cultural presence in ancient Magadha/Bihar, we repeatedly find

the date "140 BCE" as the starting point for mass Iranian migration into

India? I refer to Michael Witzel:

>

> Furthermore the tribal name of the Buddha, Sakya (Skt. Shakya),

attested only in post-Vedic times, in the Pali canon (approx. 250 BC),

can not be separated from the self-designation of the northern Iranians

(Saka), who otherwise entered India only after 140 BC., via Sistan.

http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0211&L=indology&P=R1051.

(Italics mine).

>

> Perhaps it is just a matter of my lack of background knowledge (or

worse) in these matters, but would not Magadha have been a fully

developed cultural sphere even well before the traditionally accepted

times of the quasi-historical Buddha? For as George has plainly set forth, =

 

Magadha itself is an Avestan term:

>

> Magus, "sun-priest" is not attested in Vedic [but] is a borrowing from

Iranian into Skt. [This] seems clear, esp. in light of the variant form

magu (cf. Avest. moGu, Old Pers. magu. http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-

bin/wa?A2=ind9805&L=indology&P=R28931&D=1&F=P&O=D.

>

> I actually find the proposition quite endearing that to some degree the

code-word "Buddha" could very well represent a remotely

undecipherable compendium of Old Iranian asceto-shamano-

philosophical lore.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> _________

>

> Troy Dean Harris

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site

>

>

[Guest guest]

In the context of my post, the term "Iranian" principally refers to

a "language" and those who spoke it - regardless of their

mitochondrial DNA. As a student, I am investigating culture through

the eyes of those who are involved in an ongoing analysis and

comparison of ancient languages. Their approach is based on the

premise that, to quote Michael Witzel, "if handled according to the

well established and internationally accepted rules of historical and

comparative linguistics that are used in the comparison of all human

languages, [language] is an independent and unbiased yardstick, with

which prehistoric periods can be evaluated."

http://users.primushost.com/~india/ejvs/ejvs0501/ejvs0501a.txt

 

Troy Dean Harris