Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 INDOLOGY, "vpcnk <vpcnk@H...>" <vpcnk@H...> wrote: > > To what extant were Shaivism, Buddhism and Jainism prevalent in > > the " South" before the reformist movement of Sankara. > > Jainism and Buddhism both held sway in Southern India for many > centuries. They were extremely popular \ Thank you What was the history of Saivism in the South ?? Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2003 Report Share Posted January 14, 2003 INDOLOGY, "Ravi Chaudhary <ravi9@h...>" <ravi9@h...> wrote: > What was the history of Saivism in the South ?? One of the early lingams found in India is from Gudimallam, A.P. & close to Chennai. A. K. Coomaraswamy wrote about this phallic lingam long ago. Bhakti movement of the masses start worshipping Shiva in Tamil Nadu 5-8th century, the veerashaiva movement in Karnataka starts little later where the tamil saints' stories are narrated as ragaLe poems. Early Veerashaivism in the Deccan is anti-caste, anti-brahminism (Cf. V. Narayanrao, 'Siva's warriors (translation of Palkuriki Somanatha's Basavapuranamu in Telugu)) and this anti-caste position is not found in Tamil saivism where there was a peasant-priest alliance over the ages. EVR Periyar comes from a Kannada Veerashaiva background. Regards, N. Ganesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2003 Report Share Posted January 14, 2003 INDOLOGY, "naga_ganesan <naga_ganesan@h...>" <naga_ganesan@h...> wrote: > INDOLOGY, "Ravi Chaudhary <ravi9@h...>" > <ravi9@h...> wrote: > > What was the history of Saivism in the South ?? > > One of the early lingams found in India is from Gudimallam, A.P. > & close to Chennai. A. K. Coomaraswamy wrote about this phallic > lingam long ago. Bhakti movement of the masses start worshipping > Shiva in Tamil Nadu 5-8th century, the veerashaiva movement > in Karnataka starts little later where the tamil saints' > stories are narrated as ragaLe poems. Early Veerashaivism > in the Deccan is anti-caste, anti-brahminism (Cf. V. Narayanrao, > 'Siva's warriors (translation of Palkuriki Somanatha's > Basavapuranamu in Telugu)) and this anti-caste position > is not found in Tamil saivism where there was a peasant-priest > alliance over the ages. EVR Periyar comes from a Kannada > Veerashaiva background. > > Regards, > N. Ganesan Shaivism is in the North the pre BC era e.g. the Kushans, to use the common term are following it in NW Afghanistan and Central Asia.( the tribe we commonly know as yeh Chi, who are actually the Guti,(, the modern Jats). Shiv ji is the prime diety with the Jats! How does Shaivism develop to the south in the circa 5th century AD ?. Are your dates not a litlle late ? Why is it later in Karnataka ?. What is this peasant- priest alliance ? why is this not so in Karnataka ?? Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 INDOLOGY, "Ravi Chaudhary <ravi9@h...>" <ravi9@h...> wrote: > Shaivism is in the North the pre BC era. Gudimallam linga is pre-BC too. Just like Jats, Shiva is the main temple for many Tamils too. Pl. check out the number of famous Shiva temples in the south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 INDOLOGY, "naga_ganesan <naga_ganesan@h...>" <naga_ganesan@h...> wrote: > INDOLOGY, "Ravi Chaudhary <ravi9@h...>" > <ravi9@h...> wrote: > > Shaivism is in the North the pre BC era. > > Gudimallam linga is pre-BC too. > Just like Jats, Shiva is the main temple for many Tamils too. > Pl. check out the number of famous Shiva temples in the south. ********* I am getting an idea of that. Pardon my ignorance What is "Gudimallam linga"? Why do you say it is Pre BC. ? If Pre BC how many years pre BC Is there a Vaishnavism - Shaivism divide ? if so what is the history Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 > Just like Jats, Shiva is the main temple for many Tamils too. > Pl. check out the number of famous Shiva temples in the south. What's the basis for this assertion? Has any survey been done in TN regarding the popularity of Shaivism and Vaishnavism (number of followers etc), the number of temples of each etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Mr. Ravi Chaudhary wrote: << Shaivism is in the North the pre BC era e.g. the Kushans, to use the common term are following it in NW Afghanistan and Central Asia.( the tribe we commonly know as yeh Chi, who are actually the Guti,(, the modern Jats). Shiv ji is the prime diety with the Jats! How does Shaivism develop to the south in the circa 5th century AD ?. Are your dates not a litlle late ? Why is it later in Karnataka ?. What is this peasant- priest alliance ? why is this not so in Karnataka ?? >> See the GuDimallam lingam: http://www.library.upenn.edu/finearts/slide/000/00009901.htm A. K. Coomaraswamy wrote it belongs to around 150 BC. Now, Gudimallam lingam is dated to be 3rd century BCE by Inguva Kartikeya Sarma and others. http://www.vedamsbooks.com/no10022.htm There is a PadmapuraaNam shlokam to the effect that Bhakti was born in the Dravida country and goes to the Deccan, then Maharashtra, and then to Gauda desham. The emotional bhakti movement expressing devotion in the mothertongue was born in Tamilnadu. Chronologically, this bhakti mass movement happens next in Karnataka in Kannada. The Veerashaivaite saints quote incidents from the Tamil Nayanmars in their poems and vachanas. And, then in Maharashtra, ... << Pardon my ignorance What is "Gudimallam linga"? Why do you say it is Pre BC. ? If Pre BC how many years pre BC Is there a Vaishnavism - Shaivism divide ? if so what is the history >>> Your questions are interesting ones, and occcupy most of the time of historians, scholars in the academe. 100s of books are available in any academic library. For the peasant-priest alliance in Chola realm, the best book I have seen is Burton Stein, Peasant state and society in medieval south India. Nowadays, available at a good price from Oxford India paperbacks. Opposite of the peasant-priest alliance in Tamil Saivism is the anti-establishment, anti-brahmin stance of the Deccani Viirashaivism. Later the viirashiavism was later sanskritized to a large exent. This is analysed in the translation of a key Veerashaiva text, Palakuriki Somanatha, 13th cent. ´Siva's warriors : the Basava Pur¯ana of P¯alkuriki Soman¯atha / translated from the Telugu by Velcheru Narayana Rao Princeton University Press, c1990. Regards, N. Ganesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 INDOLOGY, "naga_ganesan <naga_ganesan@h...>" <naga_ganesan@h...> wrote: > > Mr. Ravi Chaudhary wrote: > > << > Shaivism is in the North the pre BC era > e.g. the Kushans> See the GuDimallam lingam: > http://www.library.upenn.edu/finearts/slide/000/00009901.htm > > A. K. Coomaraswamy wrote it belongs to around 150 BC. > Now, Gudimallam lingam is dated to be 3rd century BCE > by Inguva Kartikeya Sarma and others. > http://www.vedamsbooks.com/no10022.htm > > There is a PadmapuraaNam shlokam to the effect that Bhakti was > born in the Dravida country and goes to the Deccan, then > Maharashtra, and then to Gauda desham. The emotional bhakti movement > expressing devotion in the mothertongue was born in Tamilnadu. > Chronologically, this bhakti mass movement happens next in > Karnataka in Kannada. The Veerashaivaite saints quote incidents > from the Tamil Nayanmars in their poems and vachanas. And, then > in Maharashtra, ... > ********* That then provides an answer to the time lines- on the Saivism links between the Kushans in NW Afghanistan and South India. circa 3rd century BCE. how does it spread so far, over such a vast territory,? Does Saivism start in Tamilnadu, where does it start from ? Does your example of Bhakti relate to Saivism ? Dr Majumdar in HCIP thinks this is a vedic or Pre vedic diety, starting in the West! Thanks for your patience Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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