Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 le 13/01/2003 5:07, ymalaiya <ymalaiya à ymalaiya a écrit : >"Lingayats are sometimes classified as being outside of Hinduism, since they explicitly reject vedas. What is the connection with Kasmiri Saivism? > > > > Yashwant Dear Y. Mallaya, I can only answer to your question on "Lingayats are sometimes classified as being outside of Hinduism, since they explicitly reject vedas. What is the connection with Kasmiri Saivism? >From epigraphical evidences, we can say that Lakula shavism came to Karnataka in about 755 A.D. when Jnanashiv Acharya came to Pattadakall from Mrigatanikaviharavishaya on the bank of Ganga. At present this inscription in Pattadakallu is condidered to be the first example mentioning the presence of Lakulashaivism in Karnataka. Kalamukha and Pashupata are the two divisions of Lakulashaivism. ThisLakulashaivism developped so much in Karnataka that priests, pontiffs of these two divisions became preceptors to both kings as well as their vassals, ministers, nobles and other officers. As they opened their schools wherever they built temples. Veda, Vyakarana-s, Yoga and Kannada was taught in their schools.Pandit-s who were in charge of teaching Kaumaravyakarana were receiving special grants from their patrons. Veda was most important for Kalamukha and Pashupata adepts in Karnataka. They followed "DakshiNAchAra" which was against "vAmAchAra". They advised their followers to build temples. Their style of building temples was called "dakhinachari" style. In course of time that became "Jakkanachari" style. When Kalamukha and Pashupata shaivism reached its zenith of glory, Karnataka was full of small shrines for Shiva. Basaveshvara started his movement aginst this type of building temples. That came as "bliss in disguise". Thanks to Basaveshvara because his movement the existing temples received much attention from patrons. Temples were enlarged, embelished. Basavanna did not go against the principles of Kalamukha and Pashupatas. He uplifted a number of good points from these two shaivisms and started his movement of "KAyakave kailAsa" and "Ishtalinga" worship. In fact, Kalamukha and Pashupatas were worshipping their Ishtalinga but they were doing it either in temples or in their mathas. Basavanna advised them to do it at home and also attend to their other duties in day to day life. Terms like "Virashaivism, Lingayata" came in the usage at a later period, probably during the times of Devaraya II, king of Karnataka (or so called Vijayanagara) empire. > Lingayats are sometimes classified as being outside of Hinduism. It is wrong to place them outside the frame of hinduism because in their religious ceremonies hindu scriptures. It is not true that they V-s reject vedas. Even Basavanna himself and his followers have quoted hymns from our ancient scriptures to defend their ideas. But, only in daily puja mostly they sing vacans of Shivasharana-s. The difference between the Kashmir shaivism and Karnataka shaivism is not much. Their mode of worship of Shiva was makes all the difference. This is a subject which needs more attention. Karnataka is full of Pashupata and Kalamukha temples. Thousands of inscriptions left by them in their temples are the best source of imformation. Very few scholars like Kapataral Krishna Rau in fifties and Lorenzen in seventies have worked on this subject. The subject needs to be explored more, inscriptions to be exploited. These inscriptions of Kalamukha and Pashupata are not easily understandable without the sound knowledge of Sanskrit, Prakrit and Halegannada kavya-s. Study of art, architecture of temples substantiate the work. Vasundhara Sources : Karnataka Lakulashaivara Itihasa by Kapatarala Krishna Rau, 1955 The Kapalikas and Kalamukhas by David Lorenzen, 1972 Kalamulkha and Pashupata temples in Karnataka by Vasundhara, 2001 Filliozat > > > > > > > indology > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 INDOLOGY, Vasundhara Filliozat <pfilliozat@M...> wrote:What is the connection with Kasmiri Saivism? > > > > > > > Dear Y. Mallaya, > > I can only answer to your question on "Lingayats are sometimes classified as > being outside of Hinduism, since they explicitly reject vedas. *************** Thanks for clarifying That they do not reject the vedas, and that the vedas were taught in their schools. *************** Q > was their any restrcition on who was tauht the vedas in theor schools, was entry to the schools restricted ? ************** This question remains outstanding, or I missed the asnwere in the reply Yashwant asked > What is the> connection with Kasmiri Saivism? *********** Could you shed some light ? Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 Vasundhara Filliozat .> wrote: > Dear Y. Mallaya, > > I can only answer to your question on "Lingayats are sometimes classified as > being outside of Hinduism, since they explicitly reject vedas. >>> Thanks for your detailed response on the subject. Incidentally I was thinking about the following: http://dsal.uchicago.edu/digbooks/digpager.html? BOOKID=Statistics_1860&object=8 Apparently Bombay Presidency thought that Lingaets (and Brahmins) should be counted separately from Hindoos. I presume Jains are counted as Buddhist. Yashwant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Vasundhara Filliozat wrote: > > Lingayats are sometimes classified as being outside of Hinduism. > It is wrong to place them outside the frame of hinduism because in their > religious ceremonies hindu scriptures. It is not true that they V- s reject > vedas. Even Basavanna himself and his followers have quoted hymns from our > ancient scriptures to defend their ideas. But, only in daily puja mostly > they sing vacans of Shivasharana-s. This is what I noticed: "In their rejection of the authority of the Vedas, the doctrine of transmigration of souls, child marriage, and ill treatment of widows, they anticipated much of the viewpoint of the social-reform movements of the 19th century." http://www.lingayat.com/alingayat/alingayat.asp Incidentally I noticed a web survey at http://www.veercc.com/ "Do we need to have a seperate religion status to prove our Identity?" A majority of the 41 voters (65.9%) seem to agree. Yashwant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 le 15/01/2003 19:05, Ravi Chaudhary <ravi9 à ravi9 a écrit : > INDOLOGY, Vasundhara Filliozat > <pfilliozat@M...> wrote:What is the connection with Kasmiri Saivism? >>> >>> >>> > >> Dear Y. Mallaya, >> >> I can only answer to your question on "Lingayats are sometimes > classified as >> being outside of Hinduism, since they explicitly reject vedas. > > *************** > Thanks for clarifying That they do not reject the vedas, and that > the vedas were taught in their schools. > > *************** > Q > was their any restrcition on who was tauht the vedas in theor > schools, was entry to the schools restricted ? > > ************** > This question remains outstanding, or I missed the asnwere in the > reply > Dear Ravi, The admission in Kalamukha and Pashupata schools, in Karnataka was opened to those who took the diksha of one of these Shaivisms. Vedic teachers were either pontiffs themselves or pandits who were wellqualified in their subject. Some names like Nagavishnu Ghalisasaru, Pattavardhana Basavanna Ghalisasaru, Bahukalabrahma Vasudevabhatta,Madhyandina Shakheya Narayanopadhyaya etc. (Ref. S I I Vol XX, no. 144). In those days, Karnataka was full of Bhattopadhyaya and Chattopadhyaya. > Yashwant asked > What is the> connection with Kasmiri Saivism? This question can be answered once both the Kashmiri and the Karnataka Shaivisms are studied thoroughly. I am not in a position to give satisfactory answer at this stage of my research. Regards, Vasundhara > > *********** > Could you shed some light ? > > Ravi > > > > > > indology > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 I want to thank Vasundhara Filliozat and Naga Ganesan are their detailed and valuable comments on Saiva Siddhanta. India is such a mysterious country. Yashwant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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