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[Y-Indology] Some questions on Saiva Siddhanta

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le 13/01/2003 5:07, ymalaiya <ymalaiya à ymalaiya a

écrit :

 

>"Lingayats are sometimes classified as being outside of Hinduism, since they

explicitly reject vedas. What is the connection with Kasmiri Saivism?

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> Yashwant

 

Dear Y. Mallaya,

 

I can only answer to your question on "Lingayats are sometimes classified as

being outside of Hinduism, since they explicitly reject vedas. What is the

connection with Kasmiri Saivism?

>From epigraphical evidences, we can say that Lakula shavism came to

Karnataka in about 755 A.D. when Jnanashiv Acharya came to Pattadakall from

Mrigatanikaviharavishaya on the bank of Ganga. At present this inscription

in Pattadakallu is condidered to be the first example mentioning the

presence of Lakulashaivism in Karnataka.

Kalamukha and Pashupata are the two divisions of Lakulashaivism.

ThisLakulashaivism developped so much in Karnataka that priests, pontiffs

of these two divisions became preceptors to both kings as well as their

vassals, ministers, nobles and other officers. As they opened their schools

wherever they built temples. Veda, Vyakarana-s, Yoga and Kannada was taught

in their schools.Pandit-s who were in charge of teaching Kaumaravyakarana

were receiving special grants from their patrons. Veda was most important

for Kalamukha and Pashupata adepts in Karnataka. They followed

"DakshiNAchAra" which was against "vAmAchAra". They advised their followers

to build temples. Their style of building temples was called "dakhinachari"

style. In course of time that became "Jakkanachari" style.

When Kalamukha and Pashupata shaivism reached its zenith of glory,

Karnataka was full of small shrines for Shiva. Basaveshvara started his

movement aginst this type of building temples. That came as "bliss in

disguise". Thanks to Basaveshvara because his movement the existing temples

received much attention from patrons. Temples were enlarged, embelished.

Basavanna did not go against the principles of Kalamukha and Pashupatas. He

uplifted a number of good points from these two shaivisms and started his

movement of "KAyakave kailAsa" and "Ishtalinga" worship. In fact, Kalamukha

and Pashupatas were worshipping their Ishtalinga but they were doing it

either in temples or in their mathas. Basavanna advised them to do it at

home and also attend to their other duties in day to day life.

Terms like "Virashaivism, Lingayata" came in the usage at a later period,

probably during the times of Devaraya II, king of Karnataka (or so called

Vijayanagara) empire.

> Lingayats are sometimes classified as being outside of Hinduism.

It is wrong to place them outside the frame of hinduism because in their

religious ceremonies hindu scriptures. It is not true that they V-s reject

vedas. Even Basavanna himself and his followers have quoted hymns from our

ancient scriptures to defend their ideas. But, only in daily puja mostly

they sing vacans of Shivasharana-s.

The difference between the Kashmir shaivism and Karnataka shaivism is not

much. Their mode of worship of Shiva was makes all the difference. This is a

subject which needs more attention.

Karnataka is full of Pashupata and Kalamukha temples. Thousands of

inscriptions left by them in their temples are the best source of

imformation. Very few scholars like Kapataral Krishna Rau in fifties and

Lorenzen in seventies have worked on this subject. The subject needs to be

explored more, inscriptions to be exploited. These inscriptions of Kalamukha

and Pashupata are not easily understandable without the sound knowledge of

Sanskrit, Prakrit and Halegannada kavya-s. Study of art, architecture of

temples substantiate the work.

 

Vasundhara

 

Sources : Karnataka Lakulashaivara Itihasa by Kapatarala Krishna Rau, 1955

The Kapalikas and Kalamukhas by David Lorenzen, 1972

Kalamulkha and Pashupata temples in Karnataka by Vasundhara,

2001 Filliozat

 

 

 

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> indology

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INDOLOGY, Vasundhara Filliozat

<pfilliozat@M...> wrote:What is the connection with Kasmiri Saivism?

> >

> >

> >

 

> Dear Y. Mallaya,

>

> I can only answer to your question on "Lingayats are sometimes

classified as

> being outside of Hinduism, since they explicitly reject vedas.

 

***************

Thanks for clarifying That they do not reject the vedas, and that

the vedas were taught in their schools.

 

***************

Q > was their any restrcition on who was tauht the vedas in theor

schools, was entry to the schools restricted ?

 

**************

This question remains outstanding, or I missed the asnwere in the

reply

 

Yashwant asked > What is the> connection with Kasmiri Saivism?

 

***********

Could you shed some light ?

 

Ravi

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Vasundhara Filliozat .> wrote:

 

> Dear Y. Mallaya,

>

> I can only answer to your question on "Lingayats are sometimes

classified as

> being outside of Hinduism, since they explicitly reject vedas.

>>>

 

Thanks for your detailed response on the subject.

 

Incidentally I was thinking about the following:

 

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/digbooks/digpager.html?

BOOKID=Statistics_1860&object=8

 

Apparently Bombay Presidency thought that Lingaets (and Brahmins)

should be counted separately from Hindoos. I presume Jains are

counted as Buddhist.

 

 

Yashwant

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Vasundhara Filliozat wrote:

 

 

> > Lingayats are sometimes classified as being outside of Hinduism.

> It is wrong to place them outside the frame of hinduism because in

their

> religious ceremonies hindu scriptures. It is not true that they V-

s reject

> vedas. Even Basavanna himself and his followers have quoted hymns

from our

> ancient scriptures to defend their ideas. But, only in daily puja

mostly

> they sing vacans of Shivasharana-s.

 

This is what I noticed:

 

"In their rejection of the authority of the Vedas, the doctrine of

transmigration of souls, child marriage, and ill treatment of

widows, they anticipated much of the viewpoint of the social-reform

movements of the 19th century."

http://www.lingayat.com/alingayat/alingayat.asp

 

Incidentally I noticed a web survey at http://www.veercc.com/

"Do we need to have a seperate religion status to prove our

Identity?" A majority of the 41 voters (65.9%) seem to agree.

 

Yashwant

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le 15/01/2003 19:05, Ravi Chaudhary <ravi9 à ravi9

a écrit :

 

> INDOLOGY, Vasundhara Filliozat

> <pfilliozat@M...> wrote:What is the connection with Kasmiri Saivism?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>

>> Dear Y. Mallaya,

>>

>> I can only answer to your question on "Lingayats are sometimes

> classified as

>> being outside of Hinduism, since they explicitly reject vedas.

>

> ***************

> Thanks for clarifying That they do not reject the vedas, and that

> the vedas were taught in their schools.

>

> ***************

> Q > was their any restrcition on who was tauht the vedas in theor

> schools, was entry to the schools restricted ?

>

> **************

> This question remains outstanding, or I missed the asnwere in the

> reply

>

Dear Ravi,

The admission in Kalamukha and Pashupata schools, in Karnataka was opened to

those who took the diksha of one of these Shaivisms. Vedic teachers were

either pontiffs themselves or pandits who were wellqualified in their

subject. Some names like Nagavishnu Ghalisasaru, Pattavardhana Basavanna

Ghalisasaru, Bahukalabrahma Vasudevabhatta,Madhyandina Shakheya

Narayanopadhyaya etc. (Ref. S I I Vol XX, no. 144). In those days,

Karnataka was full of Bhattopadhyaya and Chattopadhyaya.

> Yashwant asked > What is the> connection with Kasmiri Saivism?

This question can be answered once both the Kashmiri and the Karnataka

Shaivisms are studied thoroughly. I am not in a position to give

satisfactory answer at this stage of my research.

Regards,

Vasundhara

>

> ***********

> Could you shed some light ?

>

> Ravi

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> indology

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> Your use of is subject to

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