Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Sanskrit still blooming in a tiny village in Karnataka http://www.hvk.org/articles/0203/35.html This journalism piece is wrong in its claim: "Historically, the natives of this village are settlers from Sankote located in Tamil Nadu-Karnataka border". Actually, Sanketi Brahmins moved from SengkOTTai (Sencottah) from Tirunelveli district. This place is near Kanyakumari, not in the TN-Karnataka border. This is the place where the Malaya/Potikai/Potiyil mountains, and where old Sanskrit and Tamil literature says Agastya lives. Avalokita's Potala may be same as Potiyil mountain. In 'Saiva and Buddhist literature, Agastya was taught tamil by 'Shiva and Avalokita. The Malaya/Potiyil area from where Sanskrit-speaking Sanketis hail is long known for Sanskrit knowledge. Bhartrhari (5th century) in Vakyapadiya 2.486 says Sanskrit grammar was rescued from the Parvata mountain. This could well be the Malaya parvatam, one of the kula-parvatams. In Tamil texts, "Poruppu" which simply means "the mountain" refers to the Malaya-parvata. Pandya kings had it as their emblem - Malayadhvaja. There are many, many ref.s in old Tamil literature where "poruppu" ("the mountain") is the Malaya-parvata. And, in tamil literature, "parvatam" is refering to this mountain place. OTOH, note that zrii-parvata is always called as such, never as "parvata" alone. The Sanskrit texts of 5th century to 10th century and more only refer to 'zrii-parvata' for the present day Srisailam, and not to `parvata' at all. HarSacarita (Chowkamba ed. p.9), KaadambarI (ed. Peterson, p. 224-228), Maalatii-maadhava (1.8,10) and RaajataraGgiNI (3.267, 4.390), vAsavadatta, kathAsaritsAgara. In HarSa's RatnAvalI, udayaNa's teacher hails from zriiparvata. This is true even in MaJjuzrImUlakalpa. It refers to zrii-parvata as: 'zrii-parvate mahAzaile dakSiNApatha saJiJike'. Inscriptional uses of *zrii-parvata* continue well beyond: The earliest inscriptions at Srisailam are dated to A.D. 1313. SII, vol. X, nos. 503 and 504. They also refer to 'zrii-parvata', and never simply as parvata. It's interesting that Mattur Brahmins speak a tamil dialect called Sanketi Tamil which itself has some peculiarities like Tirunelveli tamil dialect. Some linguistic ref.s to the Sanketi tamil: http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9705&L=indology&P=R13563 http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9906&L=indology&P=R5373 Regards, N. Ganesan http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9510&L=indology&P=R3189 Few years ago, Mattuur's 80% was speaking in Sanskrit. Now is it close to 100%? http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9605&L=indology&P=R4336 Prof. R. Zydenbos (a Dravidologist, Munich): "That the people of Mattur speak "only Sanskrit" is a myth which some of the villagers themselves cultivate. They speak Kannada, and the entire village enthusiastically participates in the "Speak Sanskrit" movement." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Dear Members, Being a Sanketi Brahmin, here is some info. Sanketi has no lipi and is a mixture of Sanskrit, Tamil, Kannada, some Malyalam, and recently some Hindi words. Pretty much all gotras among Brahmins are found among Sanketis. Sanketis are descendants of Vadama Iyers who migrated to Karnataka approximately 500-700 years ago.. Vadamas in turn came to Tamil Nadu from the Narmada River Valley around ist century AD. Sanketis are divided into 2 subgroups: Bettadapura and Kaushik (based on original settlements in Karnataka) and there are 2 variants in the dialect by those same names. If I remember correctly, Mattur Sanketis are probably Kaushik. A question for members, any info on origin of the Vadamas and their original language before coming to Tamil Nadu ?; could they originally be Saraswat or Nagar Brahmins ? (those groups are settled currently near the Narmada River Valley) Pranam, Ravi Chandrasekhara MD INDOLOGY, "naga_ganesan <naga_ganesan@h...>" <naga_ganesan@h...> wrote: > > Sanskrit still blooming in a tiny village in Karnataka > http://www.hvk.org/articles/0203/35.html > > This journalism piece is wrong in its claim: > "Historically, the natives of this village are settlers > from Sankote located in Tamil Nadu-Karnataka border". > > Actually, Sanketi Brahmins moved from SengkOTTai (Sencottah) from > Tirunelveli district. This place is near Kanyakumari, not > in the TN-Karnataka border. This is the place where the > Malaya/Potikai/Potiyil mountains, and where old Sanskrit > and Tamil literature says Agastya lives. Avalokita's > Potala may be same as Potiyil mountain. In 'Saiva and Buddhist > literature, Agastya was taught tamil by 'Shiva and Avalokita. > > The Malaya/Potiyil area from where Sanskrit-speaking Sanketis > hail is long known for Sanskrit knowledge. Bhartrhari (5th century) > in Vakyapadiya 2.486 says Sanskrit grammar was rescued from the > Parvata mountain. This could well be the Malaya parvatam, one of > the kula-parvatams. In Tamil texts, "Poruppu" which simply means > "the mountain" refers to the Malaya-parvata. Pandya kings had it as > their emblem - Malayadhvaja. There are many, many ref.s in > old Tamil literature where "poruppu" ("the mountain") is > the Malaya-parvata. And, in tamil literature, "parvatam" is > refering to this mountain place. > > OTOH, note that zrii-parvata is always called as such, never as > "parvata" alone. The Sanskrit texts of 5th century to 10th century > and more only refer to 'zrii-parvata' for the present day Srisailam, > and not to `parvata' at all. HarSacarita (Chowkamba ed. p.9), > KaadambarI (ed. Peterson, p. 224-228), Maalatii-maadhava (1.8,10) > and RaajataraGgiNI (3.267, 4.390), vAsavadatta, kathAsaritsAgara. > In HarSa's RatnAvalI, udayaNa's teacher hails from zriiparvata. > This is true even in MaJjuzrImUlakalpa. It refers to zrii-parvata > as: 'zrii-parvate mahAzaile dakSiNApatha saJiJike'. Inscriptional > uses of *zrii-parvata* continue well beyond: The earliest > inscriptions at Srisailam are dated to A.D. 1313. SII, vol. X, > nos. 503 and 504. They also refer to 'zrii-parvata', and never > simply as parvata. > > It's interesting that Mattur Brahmins speak a tamil dialect > called Sanketi Tamil which itself has some peculiarities like > Tirunelveli tamil dialect. Some linguistic ref.s to the Sanketi tamil: > http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9705&L=indology&P=R13563 > http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9906&L=indology&P=R5373 > > > Regards, > N. Ganesan > > http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9510&L=indology&P=R3189 > Few years ago, Mattuur's 80% was speaking in Sanskrit. > Now is it close to 100%? > > http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9605&L=indology&P=R4336 > Prof. R. Zydenbos (a Dravidologist, Munich): "That the people of > Mattur > speak "only Sanskrit" is a myth which some of the villagers themselves > cultivate. They speak Kannada, and the entire village enthusiastically > participates in the "Speak Sanskrit" movement." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 INDOLOGY, "vadhula <vadhula>" <vadhula> wrote: > Vadamas in turn > came to Tamil Nadu from the Narmada River Valley around ist > century AD. This is very interesting. Any collateral for this rather precise identification of time and place? Lakshmi Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 > > Vadamas in turn > > came to Tamil Nadu from the Narmada River Valley around ist > > century AD. > > This is very interesting. Any collateral for this rather precise > identification of time and place? Actually there's an even more basic problem in this issue : the Vadamaas today are represented by many sub-groups - Vada desathu Vadamaa etc. Whether all of them are descendents of the original Vadamaas itself is a big question as each group seems to have its own peculiar traits which distinguishes it from others. Or as Vidyasankar noted a long while back - whether after a particular period all new brahmin migrants into TamilNadu identified themselves as Vadamaas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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