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Dear All,

 

Nacharama and her supporters (approx 50 + other Vadama Smartas; this

is from a Sanketi video Documentary I've watched) left Tamil Nadu.

Supposedly Nacharama was an avatar of Saraswati ? (from the same

video). I read in a book about Kanchi Mutt (I dont remember the

name) about Vadama Iyers migrating to Tamil Nadu approx Ist century

AD. The Iyer heritage site (www.bharatavarsha.com) states Vadamas

have arrived into Tamil Nadu more recently. Shri Chandrashekarendra

Saraswati (former Shankaracharya of Kanchi) states in his book: Hindu

Dharma (available on line at www.kamakoti.org) that Vadama Iyers are

from the Narmada River Valley.

 

Ravi Chandrasekhara MD

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If Sankethis are smaarthaas, then their migration into Karnataka

would probably be after Shankara who supposedly lived around 500 CE -

but again it is to be noted that some local histories place Shankara

around 50 BC.

 

Ofcourse there is the other possibility that they embraced

Advaita/smaartha after then landed in Karnataka.

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I remember in the 70s there was in Pune area a small community

called "Sancheti" who operated a charitable school and a hospital.

There was also a mystic cult figure affiliated with this group who

was head of a yoga and meditation school. Is this community in any

way conncted with Sanketis?

 

S.Tilak

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  • 3 weeks later...
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INDOLOGY, "vpcnk" <vpcnk@H...> wrote:

> Shankara himself cautioned his followers from going to the cities as

> the people there were "corrupted".

 

Most Brahmins in TN reside in cities like Madras or outside.

Even Tanjore district has lost many to cities because urban environment

provides more money.

 

Don't know whether you read Tamil, recently you said some U. G. Krishnamurti

wrote tamil literature. Anyways, news to people interested in tamil.

 

Regarding the point of textual ref.s on Kanchi math,

Sringeri math bhaktas tell it's hard to find any reference in Tamil older

than a century or so.

 

Unlike theistic Ramanuja, or Saiva Siddhanta mutts, or Sringeri math

(connected with Vijayanagar kings), Kanchi math seems to be not an old

institution.

 

Regarding the myth of Sankara maths established by the great Sankara himself,

INDOLOGY/message/2911

 

Regards,

N. Ganesan

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> Most Brahmins in TN reside in cities like Madras or outside.

> Even Tanjore district has lost many to cities because urban

> environment provides more money.

 

That's only a post independance phenomenon where brahmins have moved

into the cities for work.

 

> Unlike theistic Ramanuja, or Saiva Siddhanta mutts, or Sringeri math

> (connected with Vijayanagar kings), Kanchi math seems to be not an

> old institution.

 

Well there're theories and theories and arguments and arguments. But

trust you to pick one which suits your pet theories.

 

According to Sri Vaishnava sources themselves, when Ramanuja wanted

to take on Advaita it was only to Kaanchipuram that he went, to

debate with Advaita scholars.

 

Is there a similar reference to Madhva and Shringeri?

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> According to Sri Vaishnava sources themselves, when Ramanuja wanted

> to take on Advaita it was only to Kaanchipuram that he went, to

> debate with Advaita scholars.

 

Actually I have a very interesting incident to relate regarding how I

obtained this piece of information.

 

Some three years back I stayed in Pondicherry for a week. Pondicherry

apparently was an ancient town with a different original name -

something "Veda..." and hosted a lot of temples. Some of the temples

are really magnificent.

 

At that time I was studying Visishtadvaita. So among my visits to the

many temples there, one evening I went to a big Naaraayana temple and

talked with the archagar there. There I asked him if he knew anybody

whom I could clear up my doubts on Visishtadvaita. He confessed his

own ignorance and said though his father was a scholar he was too old

to be of any help to me.

 

Then he asked me to go to an Amman temple where he said there was a

scholar who was an "ocean of knowledge on Vaishnavism" and gave

lectures on the subject every Sunday. And that day was a Sunday too

and so I headed to the Amman temple.

 

There was a small gathering and a speaker, whom I presumed to be

the "ocean", was talking about the greatness of Visishtadvaita. The

subject he was addressing then was : when all the sages prior to

Ramaanuja like Patanjali had taught meditation etc to achieve

liberation, how was that Raamaanuja taught bhakti?

 

I waited till the speech came to an end and when the crowd (which

apparently included the Director General of Police) was dispersing I

went up to the speaker and asked whether I could discuss

Visishtadvaita with him. He told me that he had to leave urgently on

some work and asked me to visit him at his residence the next day.

 

I did and we'd a nice discussion on Vedaanta (with me siding with

Advaita) - at the end of which he said it was best for both of us to

stick to our own views since each was emotionally attached to it. It

was during this discussion he told me about Raamaanuja visiting

Kaanchi and disputing with an Advaita scholar named Vedamurthy for

many days continuously!

 

Finally I discovered that the "ocean" was actually a Christian named

Joseph, who had converted to Vaishnavism. His wife too had a

big "naamam" on her forehead!

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INDOLOGY, "vpcnk" <vpcnk@H...> wrote:

> > According to Sri Vaishnava sources themselves, when

> > Ramanuja wanted

> > to take on Advaita it was only to Kaanchipuram that he went, to

> > debate with Advaita scholars.

>

 

Ramanuja was born there. SriperumpUtUr is very close to Kanchi.

 

> Some three years back I stayed in Pondicherry for a week.

> Pondicherry apparently was an ancient town with a different

> original name - something "Veda..." and hosted a lot of temples.

 

The original name in tamil for Pondicheri is PutuccEri.

In the Greek sources, Pouduke, possibly. MarakkaaNam nearby

also finds mention in classical sources.

 

> Finally I discovered that the "ocean" was actually a Christian named

> Joseph, who had converted to Vaishnavism. His wife too had a

> big "naamam" on her forehead!

 

Christianity by way of French is in Puducheri.

 

Just like Joseph converting to Srivaishnavism, the advaita

teacher of Sri Ramanuja also submitted to Vaishnavism.

The advaita monk's name is Yaadavaprakaashar. Recently,

his work on Pingala Naaga's Chandahsuutam have been edited from

Calcutta. And, his rules on sannyaasa has been translated by

prof. P. Olivelle.

 

In Kanchi and elsewhere in the south India, we also find

ekadaNDin monks, with heads shaven is shown in temple sculpture

near Jaimini and so on. That could even be pre-Sankara,

like Sundara Pandya, Gaudapaada, ...

 

Yaadavaprakaaza's life or temple inscriptions or texts do

not mention a Sankara math.

 

Regards,

N. Ganesan

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INDOLOGY, "naga_ganesan" <naga_ganesan@h...>

wrote:

> In Kanchi and elsewhere in the south India, we also find

> ekadaNDin monks, with heads shaven is shown in temple sculpture

> near Jaimini and so on. That could even be pre-Sankara,

> like Sundara Pandya, Gaudapaada, ...

>

> Yaadavaprakaaza's life or temple inscriptions or texts do

> not mention a Sankara math.

 

This is true. If we really want to find a Samkara maTha in Kanchi

even 500 years ago, Nanda Chandran should publish his family history

or publish his travelogues. Or he could write to Bombay and get final

resolution on such intractable matters.

 

My 2c,

 

Lakshmi Srinivas

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Guest guest

> Ramanuja was born there. SriperumpUtUr is very close to Kanchi.

 

But we've wonder why as notable a teacher as Raamaanuja had to go

only to Kaanchi to seek out Advaita scholars - which points to two

things : 1. there were Advaita scholars in Kaanchi and 2. Ramanuja

expected scholars of calibre in Kaanchi.

 

It is also to be noted that this incident predates any textual

reference to Shringeri.

 

> The original name in tamil for Pondicheri is PutuccEri.

> In the Greek sources, Pouduke, possibly. MarakkaaNam nearby

> also finds mention in classical sources.

 

No - there's another name for Pondicherry - which starts with "Veda".

 

> Just like Joseph converting to Srivaishnavism, the advaita

> teacher of Sri Ramanuja also submitted to Vaishnavism.

> The advaita monk's name is Yaadavaprakaashar. Recently,

> his work on Pingala Naaga's Chandahsuutam have been edited from

> Calcutta. And, his rules on sannyaasa has been translated by

> prof. P. Olivelle.

 

I don't think Yaadhavaprakaasha was a Vaishnavite. His philosophy

seems to be a variant of bheda-bheda, though with an Advaitic twist.

He is supposed to have expelled Ramanauja from his school for

questioning his views.

 

It was Yaamunaachaarya who can be considered as Raamaanuja's

predecessor in Visishtadvaita.

 

> In Kanchi and elsewhere in the south India, we also find

> ekadaNDin monks, with heads shaven is shown in temple sculpture

> near Jaimini and so on. That could even be pre-Sankara,

> like Sundara Pandya, Gaudapaada, ...

 

But how can you say it is pre-Shankara?

 

> Yaadavaprakaaza's life or temple inscriptions or texts do

> not mention a Sankara math.

 

Unlike Shaivism which seems to give a great importance to material

structures like monastries, Advaita holds that the world is unreal

(mithyam). A matha is a place where monks dwell - and they've already

renounced the world as unreal. So it is not surprising that there's

no specific mention of monastries in early Advaita tradition. But it

is also to be noted that the first mention of Shringeri itself

appears only with Vidhyaaranya (14th century CE?).

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Guest guest

> > Pondicherry apparently was an ancient town with a different

> > original name - something "Veda..." and hosted a lot of temples.

>

> The original name in tamil for Pondicheri is PutuccEri.

 

I think it was called "Vedapuri".

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