Guest guest Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Mr. Harry Spier, Rudra is Mentioned in Vedas.The characteristic of Rudra is quite similar to Siva. In the eleventh chapter of Atharvaveda The hymn for Rudra describe his angered form -- where he is called Bhootpati, Pashupati, Neelshikhandi etc. The Hymn is praising him out of fear, as he can destroy every thing. Same way the fifteen chapter of Atharvaveda is completely offered to Vratya , interestingly he is also called Ishana, Mahadeva, and even Rudra and Pashupati also. but here whole hymn is describing him as hero.The Vratya has similarities with Sindhu Ghatis picture where a man is sitting on Asandi, in the other hymns also we find Siva as adjective.We should always remember that starting point is veda not puranas. So the Mythological Name in purana is to be seen in light of Veda. Here also we should ignore Atharvaveda as it is more realistic in its approach. In that case we can say that Shiva was there in vedas as Rudra or Vratya etc. This explanation needs detail. I have worked in this direction and still working on Atharvavedic approach to life and folk culture. Rati Saxena J. Gonda in Medieval Religious Literature chapter 10 says. "Already in the Veda the god Rudra . . . was called Siva." Harry Spier 371 Brickman Rd. Hurleyville, New York USA 12747 _______________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Sponsor indology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 The Svetasvatara Upanisad contains a number of usages of the word 'siva', but I don't think it's possible to be certain in any case whether they are now the name of the God or an epithet that has become inextricably linked to that God. In some cases I think it's the former, but it's hard to draw a line between them, in a language in which epithets so easily and naturally become names. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK At 10:03 pm -0400 13/8/03, Harry Spier wrote: >Dear list members, > >J. Gonda in Medieval Religious Literature chapter 10 says. >"Already in the Veda the god Rudra . . . was called Siva." > >I'm assuming he is refering to the epithet of Rudra in the Satarudriya. >But other than this reference in the Satarudriya is Rudra called Siva >anywhere else in the Vedas proper? In the Brahmanas or later Vedic >literature? > >Many thanks, > >Harry Spier >371 Brickman Rd. >Hurleyville, New York >USA 12747 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2003 Report Share Posted August 15, 2003 Some additional passages to PR Saxena's posting: Rudra and Shiva alike: Rudra with spirally braided hair, also typical of Shiva, we find in YajurVeda XVI.10. Dweller in the mountains, also a feature of Shiva, in YV XVI.2-3-4. And another mountainous connection, as Girishaya, in Vaj Samh XVI.29. Clad in a skin, like Shiva also in YV III.61, YV XVI.51. Another feature, is the connection of Ganapati with Shiva. The Shatarudriya section of the YajurVeda can be found in the Krshna YajurVeda in Taittiriya Samhita IV.5 and Shukla YajurVeda in Vajasaneya Samhita XVI. In this Shatarudriya section Rudra pays homage to a plurality of Rudras as Ganapatis. Lord of the beasts or Pashupati in Vajasaneyi Samhita XVI.28. One can try the Khila named ShivaSamkalpa Sukta for more research in comparisons. Check this out, only from the RigVeda (I am afraid they are more likely to be epitheta, but who knows): 8.26.23: vaáyo yaahí shiva aá diváH 1.31.1: deváH devaánaam abhavaH shiváH sákhaa 1.187.3: shiváH shivaábhiH uutíbhiH 2.20.3: sákhaa shiváH naraám astu paataá 4.11.6: doSaá shiváH sahasaH suuno agne 5.1.8: kaviprashastáH átithiH shiváH naH 5.5.9: shiváH tvaSTar ihá aá gahi 5.24.1: utá traataá shiváH bhava+ varuuthyàH 6.15.9: ádha sma+ naH triváruuthaH shiváH bhava 6.45.17: aapíH uutií shiváH sákhaa 7.9.3: susaMsát mitráH átithiH shiváH naH 7.19.10: téSaam indra vRtrahátye shiváH bhuuH 7.34.15: sákhaayam kRdhvam shiváH naH astu 8.4.18: asmaákam puuSan avitaá shiváH bhava 8.39.3: shiváH duutáH vivásvataH 8.63.4: shiváH arkásya hómani 8.93.3: sá naH índraH shiváH sákhaa 10.25.9: índrasya indo shiváH sákhaa 10.92.9: yébhiH shiváH svávaan evayaávabhiH 10.165.2: shiváH kapótaH iSitáH naH astu 10.3.4: índhaanaaH agnéH sákhyuH shivásya 4.10.8: shivaá naH sakhyaá 10.34.2: shivaá sákhibhyaH utá máhyam aasiit 10.85.44: shivaá pashúbhyaH sumánaaH suvárcaaH 7.50.4: shivaáH deviíH ashipadaáH bhavantu 10.16.4: yaáH te shivaáH tanvàH jaatavedaH 10.169.4: shivaáH satiíH úpa naH goSThám aá akar 10.53.8: shivaán vayám út tarema abhí vaájaan 1.108.5: yaá vaam pratnaáni sakhyaá shivaáni 3.58.6: púnar kRNvaanaáH sakhyaá shivaáni 7.22.9: asmé te santu sakhyaá shivaáni 1.79.2: shivaábhiH ná smáyamaanaabhiH aá agaat 1.187.3: shiváH shivaábhiH uutíbhiH 8.20.24: shivaábhiH asacadviSaH 10.8.6: yátra+ niyúdbhiH sácase shivaábhiH 10.67.9: tám vardháyantaH matíbhiH shivaábhiH 5.41.17: átra+ shivaám tanvàH dhaasím asyaáH 10.95.13: cakrám ! ná krandat aadhyè shivaáyai 5.12.5: shivaásaH sántaH áshivaaH abhuuvan 7.18.7: aá álinaasaH viSaaNínaH shivaásaH 6.75.10: shivé naH dyaávaapRthivií anehásaa 7.73.4: maá naH mardhiSTam aá gatam shivéna 1.143.8: shivébhiH naH paayúbhiH paahi shagmaíH 3.1.9: gúhaa cárantam sákhibhiH shivébhiH 3.1.19: aá naH gahi sakhyébhiH shivébhiH 6.71.3: shivébhiH adyá pári paahi naH gáyam 8.60.8: shivébhiH paahi paayúbhiH regards, Ishwa INDOLOGY, PR SAXENA <prsaxena@s...> wrote: > Mr. Harry Spier, > Rudra is Mentioned in Vedas.The characteristic of Rudra is quite similar to Siva. In the eleventh chapter of Atharvaveda The hymn for Rudra describe his angered form -- where he is called Bhootpati, Pashupati, Neelshikhandi etc. The Hymn is praising him out of fear, as he can destroy every thing. Same way the fifteen chapter of Atharvaveda is completely offered to Vratya , interestingly he is also called Ishana, Mahadeva, and even Rudra and Pashupati also. but here whole hymn is describing him as hero.The Vratya has similarities with Sindhu Ghatis picture where a man is sitting on Asandi, in the other hymns also we find Siva as adjective.We should always remember that starting point is veda not puranas. So the Mythological Name in purana is to be seen in light of Veda. Here also we should ignore Atharvaveda as it is more realistic in its approach. In that case we can say that Shiva was there in vedas as Rudra or Vratya etc. This explanation needs detail. I have worked in this direction and still working on Atharvavedic approach to life and folk culture. > > Rati Saxena > J. Gonda in Medieval Religious Literature chapter 10 says. > "Already in the Veda the god Rudra . . . was called Siva." > > > Harry Spier > 371 Brickman Rd. > Hurleyville, New York > USA 12747 > > _______________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > indology > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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