Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 "vivaswat" heeft op zaterdag, 4 Sep 2004 om 07:23 uur het volgende geschreven: > Just a small thought: > > Could "Kautilya" be a derivative of "kutila" (kannada (approximate) > meaning manipulation, other languages not known) ? Interesting idea! Yes, kuTila is a Sanskrit word, also used in Kannada: but not a noun meaning 'manipulation', but an adjective meaning 'crooked, bent' or 'insincere, fraudulent', making the derivative noun kauTilya mean 'crookedness' or 'fraudulence' (like Kannada 'konku'). If we assume that this is the meaning of the name, it makes one wonder, though, whether this really is a *name* or a nickname, perhaps given by readers in some later generation. (Would anyone name his / her son that?) RZ Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department für Asienstudien - Indologie Universität München Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 In the drama Mudrarakshsam this word has been as below: kautilyah kutyilamatih sa esha yena krodhaagnau prasabhamadaahi nandvamsah. kutilamatih = crooked mind. But this derivation is disouted by many scholars. PKR Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos2001 wrote: "vivaswat" heeft op zaterdag, 4 Sep 2004 om 07:23 uur het volgende geschreven: > Just a small thought: > > Could "Kautilya" be a derivative of "kutila" (kannada (approximate) > meaning manipulation, other languages not known) ? Interesting idea! Yes, kuTila is a Sanskrit word, also used in Kannada: but not a noun meaning 'manipulation', but an adjective meaning 'crooked, bent' or 'insincere, fraudulent', making the derivative noun kauTilya mean 'crookedness' or 'fraudulence' (like Kannada 'konku'). If we assume that this is the meaning of the name, it makes one wonder, though, whether this really is a *name* or a nickname, perhaps given by readers in some later generation. (Would anyone name his / her son that?) RZ Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department für Asienstudien - Indologie Universität München INDOLOGY/ INDOLOGY Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Enter now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 You are right. If it is not a gotra, being ascribed to Rsi Kutila/Ashtavakra, then it must be a psedonym that might have been given later- in line with his famous ugly looks. The name Kautilya has been mentioned in KA itself and if the name is given by later generations, then the text itself (as we read it now) must have been written at a later date. kishore Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos2001 wrote: "vivaswat" heeft op zaterdag, 4 Sep 2004 om 07:23 uur het volgende geschreven: > Just a small thought: > > Could "Kautilya" be a derivative of "kutila" (kannada (approximate) > meaning manipulation, other languages not known) ? Interesting idea! Yes, kuTila is a Sanskrit word, also used in Kannada: but not a noun meaning 'manipulation', but an adjective meaning 'crooked, bent' or 'insincere, fraudulent', making the derivative noun kauTilya mean 'crookedness' or 'fraudulence' (like Kannada 'konku'). If we assume that this is the meaning of the name, it makes one wonder, though, whether this really is a *name* or a nickname, perhaps given by readers in some later generation. (Would anyone name his / her son that?) RZ Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department für Asienstudien - Indologie Universität München INDOLOGY/ INDOLOGY m kishore mohan India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Agreed, it does mean the same things in Kannada as well, although, I have not seen it used in the context of crooked/bent (in Kannada). But 'insincere, fraudulent' seems to be consistent. Manipulation/manipulator was the closest I could think of on the spur of the moment related to the subject/man. Hence I had said 'approximate meaning'. Thanks Ravindra >Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos2001 >INDOLOGY >INDOLOGY >Re: [Y-Indology] The names cANakya and Kautilya >Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:48:51 +0200 > >"vivaswat" heeft op zaterdag, 4 Sep 2004 om 07:23 uur het volgende >geschreven: > > > Just a small thought: > > > > Could "Kautilya" be a derivative of "kutila" (kannada (approximate) > > meaning manipulation, other languages not known) ? > >Interesting idea! Yes, kuTila is a Sanskrit word, also used in Kannada: >but not a noun meaning 'manipulation', but an adjective meaning >'crooked, bent' or 'insincere, fraudulent', making the derivative noun >kauTilya mean 'crookedness' or 'fraudulence' (like Kannada 'konku'). > >If we assume that this is the meaning of the name, it makes one wonder, >though, whether this really is a *name* or a nickname, perhaps given by >readers in some later generation. (Would anyone name his / her son >that?) > >RZ > >Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos >Department für Asienstudien - Indologie >Universität München Links > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 There is another little thing: Kannada also has a word "chANAksha" literal meaning 'very clever'. This word itself is traditionally traced to Chanakya himself. 'The man was so clever that he left his mark on the word for cleverness', it is often said. Could the word 'kuTila' be the same as well? This then gives rise to the age-old chicken or egg story - word from the man or man from the word? If not, does 'chANAksha' or it's root in some form have a similar meaning in sanskrit as well? Or are the origin of the two words distinct, one from the man, one for the man? Thanks Ravindra >Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos2001 >INDOLOGY >INDOLOGY >Re: [Y-Indology] The names cANakya and Kautilya >Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:48:51 +0200 > >"vivaswat" heeft op zaterdag, 4 Sep 2004 om 07:23 uur het volgende >geschreven: > > > Just a small thought: > > > > Could "Kautilya" be a derivative of "kutila" (kannada (approximate) > > meaning manipulation, other languages not known) ? > >Interesting idea! Yes, kuTila is a Sanskrit word, also used in Kannada: >but not a noun meaning 'manipulation', but an adjective meaning >'crooked, bent' or 'insincere, fraudulent', making the derivative noun >kauTilya mean 'crookedness' or 'fraudulence' (like Kannada 'konku'). > >If we assume that this is the meaning of the name, it makes one wonder, >though, whether this really is a *name* or a nickname, perhaps given by >readers in some later generation. (Would anyone name his / her son >that?) > >RZ > >Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos >Department für Asienstudien - Indologie >Universität München > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 But as LS pointed out, it might just be a back characterisation. kishore INDOLOGY, peekayar <peekayar> wrote: > In the drama Mudrarakshsam this word has been as below: > > kautilyah kutyilamatih sa esha yena > krodhaagnau prasabhamadaahi nandvamsah. > > kutilamatih = crooked mind. > > But this derivation is disouted by many scholars. > > PKR > > Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos2001> wrote: > "vivaswat" heeft op zaterdag, 4 Sep 2004 om 07:23 uur het volgende > geschreven: > > > Just a small thought: > > > > Could "Kautilya" be a derivative of "kutila" (kannada (approximate) > > meaning manipulation, other languages not known) ? > > Interesting idea! Yes, kuTila is a Sanskrit word, also used in Kannada: > but not a noun meaning 'manipulation', but an adjective meaning > 'crooked, bent' or 'insincere, fraudulent', making the derivative noun > kauTilya mean 'crookedness' or 'fraudulence' (like Kannada 'konku'). > > If we assume that this is the meaning of the name, it makes one wonder, > though, whether this really is a *name* or a nickname, perhaps given by > readers in some later generation. (Would anyone name his / her son > that?) > > RZ > > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Department für Asienstudien - Indologie > Universität München > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > INDOLOGY/ > > > INDOLOGY > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Enter now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.