The Truth ?

[Guest guest]

Vinod jee, you also did the same mistake done by

Hare Krishna people. Fanaticism is not attached to a

particular path. I am a Krishna Bhakta, Jyotishiji is a

krishna Bhakta so are peggy, Mira, Sriram, Kajol, Gypsy

and many others...they are all krishna bhakta not

fanatics.<br><br>Dear Mavesvara has interpreted Sankhya to prove Hare

Krishna views and you have interpreted Sankhya to prove

god is not present. Both the interpretations are not

correct.<br><br>The confusion has been created by our mind which is

focussed on a particular explanation. I am presenting

below the(relevant) Original Sankhya Shloka with their

dictionary translation to judge what Sankhya has to

say.<br><br>=> Ashto Prakritaya - (2)-8 types of Nature<br>=>

shodasha vikaarah - (3)-16 manifestations<br>=>

Purushaah - (4)- One Purusha (soul)<br><br>There is (eight

types of) Nature and 16 types of Manifestations of this

Prakriti and One Purusha(soul). This makes the 25 elements

of Samkhya. Here Sankhya the philosophy confirmed by

Lord krishna did not say Paramatama (God) and

Jiva(individual soul) are different.<br><br>=>

Ishawara-asiddho (1/92)- God is not proved.<br><br>This is the

shloka which is thought to be against the presence of

God but it is not. See next<br><br>=>akaaryatweapi

tadyoga parvshayaata -(3/55)<br>(though Nature is not

effect but cause, it is under control (of Purusha) to

manifest.<br><br>=> Sa hi sarvavit sarvkarta -(3/56)<br>He is the

all-knowing and all -doing<br><br>=> Idrisheshvarasiddhi

siddha -(3/57)<br>Thus God's presence is

proved.<br><br>So we will see here that Sankhya does not deny

presence of amnipotent God, but also confirms that Jiva

and Paramatama are not

different.<br><br><br>contd....

[Guest guest]

contd from prev-post<br><br><br>Unfortunately,

everyone who tranaslated Sankhya and vedanta mixed some of

his views into this and changed the real philosophy

serving his path.<br>There are 5 authenticated

explanations of Vedanta viz.<br><br>1 - shankrayacharya's on

Advaita<br>2- Ramanujacharya's on Vishishita-Dwaita<br>3-

Madhvacharya 's on Dvait<br>4- Vallabacharya - shuddha

Dvait<br>5- Nimbkacharya's Dvait-Advait<br><br>None of the

above translations/explanations of Vedanta,were without

mixing of a particular path's ideas into the vedanta and

they had a reason to do so.<br><br>Buddha was asked if

God is there he said," I did not say so" when he was

asked if God is not there he said," I did not say so

too". This statement is taken as Buddha refused the

presence of God. <br><br>Buddha was simply translating

Sankhya Philosophy which says God can not be proved by

logics.<br><br>God is truth, Nature is truth and at the present

plane of consciousness Jiva is also true.<br><br>Those

Mayavadi who say Nature is untrue, I ask them to stand

before the approaching train and say this is untrue and

it will not do any harm to them.<br><br>As I earlier

said, Hinduism does not force its dogmas on individuals

but fixes different rules depending upon the mental

evolution of a group.<br><br>Those religions or paths,

which believe that their book is the only one

containing the truth are more prone to becoming

fanatics.<br><br>Hinduism knows that a poor farmer needs rain and not God

so they gave him philosophy of Indra and Yajna to

get rains.....and vedanta was for those who have

fulfilled their desires of worldly and heavenly wishes and

are now ready for Brahmagyana.<br><br>So Sankhya is

the highest philosophy of Hinduism and it was further

elaborated by Vyasa muni in his Brahmasutra known as

Vedanta.<br><br>There was one more philosophy in ancient times, which

was better explained than Sankhaya. It was clear,

straightforward and practical. It was the philosophy of Tantra.

<br><br>Tantra beautifully explained that there is one Paramsiva

(Purusha of sankhya), and his Shakti (the Prakriti of

Sankhya). They cofirmed that with the dance of shiva and

shakti (mating of shakti in different gunas with

consciousness in its womb) shakti manifests into this universe.

<br><br>Since Tantra was the most practical and direct

knowledge of God, it was kept secret by ancient sages to

keep the powers attained by Tantra, away from common

people. But Nature played its game, and Tantra was slowly

tranformed into rituals and sacrifices and sexual games etc.

and over the years it lost its original form and

ways.<br><br>We should not be confused by different Gods, we

should not be confused by different philosophies. We

should just remember there is a God, and there is his

Nature (maya/shakti/durga) and there is Jiva (individual

soul-even if it is felt separate from god now). And this

truth has been beautifully elaborated by my dearest

Renumenon in her preceding post, where she beautifully

explained the truth behind various gods.<br><br>We are

stuck up in the whirlpool of grief and sorrow and only

God's mercy and and his Darshan will save us from this

Maya. <br><br>And the only way out is Sadhna. do

meditation and god will show the light, as He has done for

many others. Those who discuss and contradict with

logics are fools and are wasting their

time.<br><br>Those who serve the God, those who love god, those who

do sadhna are the real bhaktas and real

gyanis.<br><br>Hari Om Tat Sat<br><br>silentsoul

[Guest guest]

Dearest silent soul,<br>thanks for the excellent

discussion and logic but then towards the end why

this---<br>"Those who discuss and contradict with logics are fools

and are wasting their time."<br>??<br><br>I'm afraid,

taking cue from your words will have to put forward a

proposition to all the sadhaks viz.<br>instead of only

quoting scriptures let us all try to put in our personal

experiences or ideas on the board, the scriptures may be

quoted as a additional line.<br>All your old posts so

carefully reproduced by shivoham in the beginning messages

are an education in itself, could not we continue in

a similar manner ?<br><br>Doling out second hand

knowledge is only good if it has affected the quoter

directly otherwise it seems simply to impress.<br><br>The

pathless way to HIM is different for each one of

us.<br>Guess all the dust was raised just because a

neo-hindu(as per shivoham :-) tried to dole out some

proprietary hinduism, but enough has been said on

that.<br>For that matter meditation alone also cannot claim a

right to god-attainment, as Sri Ramana Maharshi has

stated that even when one attains to samadhi without

first burning out desire or the seed of karma, merely

wakes up from that samadhi as if only amoment has

passed.<br>All of us do continue in our respective sadhanas, but

the only usefulness that one sees of such a forum is

that we somehow share our experiences or help each

other in burning out that karma seed which constitutes

our causal bodies.<br>And for that I'm afraid logic

WILL have to be used to defeat itself for all of us

being present on this forum shows that all our logical

faculties are still functioning.<br>There is a beautiful

story to illustrate this<br>cont.d...

[Guest guest]

< Those who discuss and contradict with

logics are fools and are wasting their time >>

what i mean here is useless discussion using logics to

belittle others and trying to prove that we only know the

truth !!<br><br> The discussion to understand is

Satsang.<br><br> Ahankaar (proud) contradicts<br> mind

analyses<br> heart accepts<br> and soul knows

[Guest guest]

I bow before your clarification, <br>sometimes tend to take words too

absolutely<br>my apologies