shiva -the best vaishnav-

[Guest guest]

<< here is a story of Lord Vishnu's most

excellent devotion to Lord Shiva . every day lord vishnu

used to offer thousand lotuses to lord shiva during

worship. One day shiva wanted to test vishnu's devotion-

so, Lord Shiva hid one of the lotuses. During

worship, Lord Vishnu discovered that he was one lotus

short, in order to complete his worship, vishnu was

about to pluck one of his eyes to offer to lord shiva,

then shiva stopped him and was so pleaed with vishnu's

devotion that shiva named vishnu "padmalochana" -the one

with the lotus eyes- shiva also prsented vishnu with

the sudharshan chakra >><br><br>DO you really

believe that???

[Guest guest]

Dear lucideye,<br>Hope you are well satisfied

with your disbelief. Guess, for you, Shiva and Vishnu

are those two blokes who live round the corner having

four hands etc.<br>Hindu gods and their stories are

highly symbolic and have usually three levels of

meanings.<br>The first meaning in your story is for simple

believing souls for whom gods are super-humanbeings and who

can cut out their eyes in lieu of a lotus.<br>The

second meaning is slightly more abstract which creates a

wonderful sense of devotion and sacrifice in the listener,

this is only for an advanced sadhaka.<br>The third

meaning would be too difficult to explain to you on such

a forum, for firstly the true Vishnu aspect and

Shiva aspect will have to be experienced(actualised) by

the sadhaka himself so as to understand this

beautiful perennial play between the two aspects of the

supreme viz Vishnu and Shiva...<br>Please do not be

sarcastic.<br>Why don't we instead make fun of the kids in

kindergarten learning an absurd poem "Baa baa black sheep,

have you any wool...." :-)<br>Often it helps to be

open minded, only then further doors open<br> regards

really

[Guest guest]

Dear really_i_am<br><br>I don't like such

stories. For me, they are not helpful at all. You loose

yourself in mythology and do not know anymore what is true

and what is not. Believe me, such stories are mostly

understood in the first way that you desribe. They create

naivity and do not support true understandig of GOD. God

is formless and has of course neither blue skin nor

three eys, etc.<br>I only seek for true knowledge and

not for mythology.<br> <br>If you have children,

would you like that they worship your pictures, invent

silly stories about you and tell them everybody? Or

would you rather that they set aside all that

worshipping and mythology and naivity and get to know you as

you REALLY are? <br>Think about that.<br>

<br>Worshipping wooden gods and spreading silly stories about GOD

is a very primitive stage of human development and

depicts the underdeveloped mind of present days human.

<br>Besides, you will never find such in a truly evolved

society.<br><br>Love,<br><br>Lucideye

[Guest guest]

What can I say lucideye,<br>you are right in all

that you state, but remember always that these are

your views. You say that god is formless, but have you

realised that? I believe not, most likely it appeals to

your sense of logic.<br>True spirituality extends far

beyond logic which is a major hurdle(funnily so

!)<br>The mythological stories as you say are not doing

much good mowdays, but can't we atleast try to enjoy

the beautiful bhaava(emotion) they convey or keep an

open mind (and hence a sharp intellect) for the true

meaning behind things?<br>More often than not I have seen

wooden gods doing what living ones could not do. You may

say that it was in the worshipper himself and not in

the wooden statue(ISKCON r u listening) but did not

the wooden statue act as a means to an end?

[Guest guest]

Dear lucideye2012,<br>We learn from stories and

legends. Most of us have not had God Darshan so we do

believe what we read or hear. <br>As far the story of

Vishnu goes, the Bengali version of the Ramayana has a

similar story. Durga Puja in Bengal is called AKAL BODHON

- untimely Puja. Durga was initially worshipped in

Spring. As the legend goes, when Rama had lost all hope

of defeating Ravana, he decided to an AKAL BODON

(untimely Puja) of Devi Durga. For the worship Rama needed

108 lotus flowers. To test his faith, Durga hid one

of the lotus flowers. Rama searched everywhere but

could not find it. It is then he realized that he was

called padmalochana (the lotus eyed one) and decided to

pluck out an eye and offer it to the Goddess. He took

out a sharp arrow out of the quiver and as he was

about to gorge his eye out, teh Goddess caught his

hand. She said she pleased with his devotion and Rama

could ask for a boon. Rama then wanted to know how to

kill Ravana. And then the Devi told Rama that Ravana

could be killed only by a Brahmastra hidden in Ravana's

house. All Rama had to do was get it, and Ravana would

be dead.<br><br>We hear so many legends and stories.

They make us feel nice. We get to hear about devotion,

about love. Its is the feeling and the emotion. If we

open our hearts out like that of an infant, why

shouldnt we believe?

[Guest guest]

Another nice story - the Ramayana. I have to

admit that it indeed is a nice story, but do you want

to stay always on the level of blind believing?

<br>Or would you rather know what is really true? <br>I

highly doubt - sorry, please do not lynch me :-) - that

the Ramayana is true. I confess that it is a

beautiful little story, but there are so many beautiful

little stories and many can support religous, loving

feelings but why create a religion on them? Ask one

Teacher of the Vedas when Rama has lived, he will perhaps

say millions of years ago. Ask another, he will say,

about 100,000 years ago. So when did he live. Did he

exist at all? Now you might say, there are so many

rishis, etc. that has got Ramas Darshan and can verify

that he existed, but I ask you, for what getting Ramas

Darshan? I rather would get the Darshan of Brahman, spoken

in your words, than look at the figure of Rama so

ostensibly bissful this might be.<br>All that I want to say

is, WHY BELIEVING WHEN YOU CAN KNOW? I want to know

the Truth and do not want to loose myself in

mythology and theoretical explanations or verifications of

hundreds of different myths, gods, goddesses, etc. <br>I

really want to know what is really true and btw, when

Rama was Vishnu or God himself why he had to worship

Durga? <br>Leela?<br>When the Bhakta cannot explain he

declares everything for Leela. I want that you open for

the higher possibilities. The possibility of the

KNOWING. Don't be content with presumptions and myth.

Awaken your higher capacities and see the Truth. Empower

yourself. Don't be a Bhakta. Don't follow the flock.

<br>ADVAITA RULEZ :-)<br><br>*** BELIEVING IS NOT ENOUGH. YOU

NEED TO KNOW! ***

[Guest guest]

I agree I am a bhakta. I am proud to be one. I

love to be lost in God's leela and do not want to

doubt the existense of my Ishta.<br>I do not think I

have reached that state where I can say I AM BRAHMAN.

Till the day I reach that state, I would love to be a

bhakta and feel love for my God.<br>Rama was a God but

was born as a human. As a human, he did what another

human would do.<br>And can I ask a question - I know it

may be very rude, but as an Advaitin, you are aware

that all we see around is ONE. All Gods are one and

you yourself one with IT. Then do you feel any love

or compassion for anyone? If so, how could you? Isnt

that a part of the Infinite too?