Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 My dear co-sadhakas,<br><br> Hope you are all enjoying the simplest explanations about Upanishadas.<br><br> Here again and again Moksha word has been used by all Upanishada...I feel Moksha may also have different meaning for each one of us.<br><br> May I ask " What Moksha Means to you ?"..i will be grateful for the replies.<br>Hari Om Tat sat<br><br>silentsoul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 << May I ask " What Moksha Means to you ?".. >><br><br>Well, you see that they are no clear focussed teachings. Moksha for most means Freedom of Rebirth. And so Millions and millions go to Kashi or Benares to attain Moksha by dying there. What nonsense.<br><br>Love,<br><br>Lucideye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Mokshechha (Desire of Moksha) is simply one of the seven basic desires.<br>Moksha comes upon the elimination of all these desires.<br>So then for Moksha, the desire for Moksha does not have to be there ???<br><br>Extreme sannyasa ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Dear Lucideye,<br>we meet again, just been to the "prophecy" site suggested by you, but was dissappointed just to find a pulp science fiction novel instead.<br>This is not in reaction to your provocative posts but just what I found, (only that I failed to keep the opinion to myself, in short, excreted in public !)<br>Members please excuse this silly display, but time and again the question arises, why do we criticise ? (Especially in public)<br>Mostly I believe either to boost self image, or in case of a truer person it is the inner impatience coming through.<br>This kind of dissatisfaction is often noted in people who have just begun exploring spirituality.<br><br>regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 << we meet again, just been to the "prophecy" site suggested by you, but was dissappointed just to find a pulp science fiction novel instead. >><br><br>Unsubstantiated bias and prejudices. Read the story/book and you will know. Me, myself, have studied the vedas, too, but haven't found anything equal to that story. That is the TRUTH and no science fiction. Please be open minded and do what you preach. <br>BTW, the other book recommended by me "The Freedom of Choice" is no worse and SO important and SO impressive and can be downloaded there for free.<br><br>(The following applies to the book "Thiaoouba Prophecy")<br><br>"There will be people who will not understand this book at all, even though it is written by a simple man, using a simple language, with examples comprehensible even by kids. There will be also others, who won't even TOUCH this book. Leave them in peace. Maybe they are not yet evolved enough, maybe they don't want to learn how much they don't know. There is no point in encouraging a kindergarten kid to study psychology or physics - a kid is simply not yet ready for it." <br><br>Dr Tom Chalko (Author of "The Freedom of Choice") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 The kid rests in his blissful ignorance and clear sight.<br>God bless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 All that was just a knee jerk response.<br>The docter tastes her/his own medicine, hope has been an education.<br>regards really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Do you mean me? Ignorance? Hmm, I don't know who is ignorant here.<br><br>But if you are the all-knowing then sorry for my advice.<br><br>Love,<br><br>Lucideye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 I'm sorry for being ambiguous, by kid I meant me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Dear Pilgrims!<br>Please do not reduce this forum into a "tit for tat" banter that goes nowhere. The question is moksha. What does it mean? No matter which faith you ask you receive an answer based upon their interpretation of scripture. Now if our german friend is an existentialist (i said if, i dont know) he will produce another likewise plausable answer. <br><br>The fact is, who knows what happens to us when we die until we, (ulp) die! The rest is faith or the lack thereof. Remember: <br><br>"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet <br><br>Profound words, huh? We, of limited logic, can not even begin to expound on what is limitless, can we? Are our faculties so precise that we can comprehend the absolute? Even modern physists would have to agree that our abilities are far from that, but they still try. And so do i.<br><br>For me silent soul, it does not matter if i die in vrindavan, varanasi, Mt. kailash, or even in my provincial town here in NJ. Though moksha seems a tempting reward for "services rendered"<br>i want something more. i want to know my creator, and more importantly, have a relationship with him. How can i on this mortal plane experience something that my creator does not? If our creator cares for any of us, would he subject us to voidism? Is that God nature?<br><br>As the old Rabbi once said when asked about his knowledge of the absolute, "i just dont know.." i can only hope and for me that is enough for now.<br><br>Now stop bickering about semantics! Instead, reveal your feelings, if you dare. Each minute wounds and the last one kills. There is little time to waste.<br><br>>:*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Dear Peggyhand:<br><br>I've read your words of wisdom. When conversation degenerates into nit-picking, misunderstanding or whatever.....any message is lost. Ah Dogma.....<br>creeds, beliefs and wanderings off the path.<br><br>I know what happens to us when we die. Would you like to know?<br><br>If you are sufficiently spiritually advanced...you ascend to ethereal realms...there are 33 in ascending number. If you are not sufficiently spiritually advanced....you descend to astral realms...there are 33 in descending number. What you have done on Earth in this life<br>determines where you go and what you will be doing. Either learning or marking time until you again reincarnate to, hopefully, get it right the next time. It's up to you, and only you.<br><br>In addition, if your "time" is up.....if you have been judged and found wanting.....you cease to exist as an individual personality and your energy goes back to the Source.<br><br>Think Cosmic.....not human.<br><br>As to our German friend.....have you not noticed that, when one checks out a profile of someone and that someone lists nothing but a name and/or age.....that someone has not much to say to illuminate or teach others? Honesty does not seem to be in his/her repetoire. Just an observation. I am in no way criticizing the<br>author. He or she probably can teach us much. For example....not to be judgemental. We do not know this individual.<br><br>Respectfully,<br><br>blueraybird<br>Emissary of Peace and Goodwill (God's Will) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Hello silensoul.....I have not read all the posts on upanishada....but I seem to be thinking of the great one everyday, many many times a day....<br>I was looking at some trees today when I was outside, I could hear the Great One say Yes jeffrey I am here and everywhere......Then it got to be to wild for my little brain and I just smiled back at God....My friend the feelings of Love that are flowing around me are so strong at times.....I am sending this love to you all and it is on the wind....<br><br>Namaste jeffrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Blueraybird and Peggy mataji, your description of Moksha was really great.<br><br> Some members here forget before joining that the club falls under "Hinduism" hence words like Nonesense, primitive idol worshipping etc are being used. If we are primitive and nonsense, what are you doing here. Leave us!<br><br> Sorry, for me Moksha is when I will be out of desires and clutches of Nature. <br><br> And who is not under influence of desires and Nature, only God himself. <br><br> When i will be with Him away from this universe but still enjoying it, will be Moksha for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Dear Sushma,<br><br>you wrote:<br><< Some members here forget before joining that the club falls under "Hinduism" hence words like Nonesense, primitive idol worshipping etc are being used. If we are primitive and nonsense, what are you doing here. Leave us! >><br><br>I've not said that you are primitive. I have only said that believing if one dies in Kashi that thus he attains Moksha is nonsense. Would be too easy, wouldn't it? ;-)<br>Further, I have said that idol worshipping depicts the primitive mind of present day's human and that IS my opinion. And I will explain it to you. I believe that you will admit that almost all people who do this worshipping believe in angry gods, gods that are responsible for their fate and that you can by steady worship change it. That IS nonse, sorry. YOU ARE THE CREATOR. You create your Karma and your destiny simply by the acts of thinking, speaking and acting and it is ONLY you who do this. There is no outer God or Goddess that you have to worship. Think good, speak good and do good and then experience the good that you have manifested. Then, idol worshipping is entirely useless and believe me, GOD wishes that you understand that. Neither he nor any of his gods or goddesses wants to be worshipped. They only want that you realize the TRUTH and set aside all that fear and ignorance that is deeply intertwined with it. It doesn't matter if you are Hindu (in your last life you were surely not) or Christ or of any other confession, this is UNIVERSAL LAW! Understand it and get responsible for yourself and then you will realize that there's no god that needs to be worshipped. I, myself, have also worshipped and practised bhakti but then I have recognized that there are universal laws that bind and create my reality and that it is only me and noone else who is responsible for my fate and destiny and that it is entirely useless to do worship when you know those laws. Then you are free and can begin to manifest the reality that you wish for yourself.<br><br>Namaste,<br><br>Lcideye<br><br>PS: Please don't dare to believe Sushma and me, our profile is too scanty ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Sorry folks,<br><br>I have written: That is nonse...<br>should be: That is nonsense<br><br>Sorry again,<br><br>Lucideye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 << As to our German friend.....have you not noticed that, when one checks out a profile of someone and that someone lists nothing but a name and/or age.....that someone has not much to say to illuminate or teach others? Honesty does not seem to be in his/her repetoire. Just an observation. I am in no way criticizing the<br>author. He or she probably can teach us much. For example....not to be judgemental.>><br><br>and to not be prejudiced because of a scanty profile :-)<br><br>Love,<br><br>Lucideye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Dear Peggyhand,<br><br>Very good post. Enjoyed it. <br><br>Love,<br><br>Lucideye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 << If you are sufficiently spiritually advanced...you ascend to ethereal realms...there are 33 in ascending number. If you are not sufficiently spiritually advanced....you descend to astral realms...there are 33 in descending number. >> <br><br>& <br><br><< In addition, if your "time" is up.....if you have been judged and found wanting.....you cease to exist as an individual personality and your energy goes back to the Source.>><br><br>Dear Blueraybird,<br><br>You said you KNOW this. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say you BELIEVE it?<br><br>Have you verified this yourself?<br><br>If not, I can tell you what I have already read in several NewAge books.<br><br>Lucideye<br><br>"Believing is not enough. You need to know." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 hrmmmmm. "Believing is not enough. You need to know." <br>i agree 100% that this is of course the best way. But again, to know would mean to return to this mortal coil after death "to do the math."<br><br>i spent many many years living among the Germans and i found them to be exacting and methodical. Kind, but disciplined. My son was taught religion in the Grundschule, something that does not happen here in the US. Crosses of Lord Jesus abound everywhere to include the highest peaks.(Sounds like an anthropologist describing a third world country, sorry.) <br><br>My point is, most of us are raised INTO a religion or faith. Yes, there may come a time when we abandon that faith for another or stop believing altogether, but when troubles are severe enough, it tends to 'pop back up' again. <br><br>You can not fault the people who flock to holy dhams to die for hopes of moksha. The fact is that they are dying and well, it could not hurt, could it? There is an old saying 'there are no atheists in fox holes.' and you know what? This is true. <br><br>Do you remember the terrorist bombing at Rhein-Main airforce base and the Berlin clubs back in the 70? Alot of converts were made then!!! More importantly, do you know why? Because from time to time we are reminded that we must die one day and that day is always unexpected. It is a scary thought in of itself, but if we also were taught of an afterlife or the results of our karmic activities, well, brrrrrrrr.<br><br>I read that book you recommended. I kinda laughed to see that the author offers a $1000 reward if it can be disproved. Somewhere, a Hindu babaji in a desolate kund is smiling and probably thinking, "Just $1000? I'll be your slave forever if you can prove my ideas can be disproved first!" As he goes back to his japa and remembering his creator, so do i.<br><br>Please take no offense,dear. None was meant. i hope that you stay because thinking is good. Faith without thinking is sentiment.<br><br>om tat sat<br><br>>:*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Dear Lucideye:<br><br>Forgive me for bumping into your posting to Sushma.<br><br>What you just said about idol worship, gods and goddesses, etc. is so right on! You're definitely thinking.<br><br>Keep thinkin.......<br><br>blueray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Dear Lucideye:<br><br>You're quite right about pre-judgement. I was out of line with my comment on profiles. However,<br>it does slightly annoy me when I go to someone's profile to find nothing there, as I would like to "meet" that person. I was lumping you in, as it were, with many others who have had no profile and have disrupted clubs I've been in. I'm sure<br>you are not one of those.....you're either a good-looking, young lady of much intellect or a good-looking, young guy of much intellect.....right?<br><br>Prejudice is not my problem this year, (according to the Cosmic Clock), it's criticism! <br>Again...I apologize.<br><br>Peace,<br><br>blueray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Lucideye:<br><br>One more time....<br><br>My verification:<br><br>I know this and believe this. The Ascended Masters do not lie. My guru does not lie.<br>My Messenger does not lie. and I do not lie.......<br><br>In the Light,<br><br>blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Dear lucid(something) thanks for the wise reply. I definitely accept your ideas to be truth and full of wisdom.<br> <br>But your blame did hurt some people (i am sure gypsyqueenb is mature enough not to feel hurt)<br>As Silentsoul has already written Hinduism contains all from idol-worshipping to Advait Vedanta. If you can laugh on idol-worshipping there are poeple out here who are more evolved than you and must be laughing at you. We Hindus are blamed for idol worshippin tell me who does not do it.<br><br>- What is christ hanging on cross being worshipped by christians ? Just a wooden idol ?<br><br>- What is Mother Marry's photo which is worshipped?<br><br>- And the uncarved stone at Kabaa, is it not an idol uncut just a stone ?<br><br>- Lord Budha's statues are worshipped by Buddhists.<br><br>- Sikhs worshipping "Adi Granth" which is mere a book ?? But they respect it like a living guru.<br><br>- And you must be keeping photo of your child or wife or girl friend in your purse, and you must be loving and kissing it off and on (smiles) Is it not idol-worshipping?<br><br> Every one is not capable of thinking of god in mind. Some need external means to think about god. So what is the harm in this if someone concentrates on God by worshipping a wooden krishna or wooden christ, or a book, or an uncarved stone ? Hindu sages were not fool as they knew, one simple beginner can not concentrate without external means and they also knew that after some time, they would start seeing god in their heart so they encouraged idol-worshipping as a beginning exercise.<br><br> Everyone is not of your mental standards, some are lower souls too (as you are thinking-thought it is wrong) so instead of hurting their sentiments why not continue your beautiful thoughts ? We can learn from each other even without hurting. And whom are you hurting ? Other manifestations of God ? <br><br> In this forum I have seen some so-called enlightened souls who claimed to have merged in God, and who abused and cried on smallest provocation. What we write, reflects our mental status, not our claims.<br><br>Jai Sai Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 To warm himself and the other monks on a bitter cold winter's day, Tan-shia took a wooden Buddha statue and set it on fire. The abbot of the monastary came running and tried to put out the fire, screaming at Tan-shia and asking what he thought he was doing.<br>"I'm trying to obtain the spirits of the holy one," Tan-shia said.<br>"How can you obtain the spirits of the holy one from a wooden statue?"<br>"So if there are no holy spirits, let's burn the rest of the statues."<br><br>Zen Mondo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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