Dear sadhaks

[Guest guest]

I've been buried in studying for some major exams

.... and have missed participating in these wonderful

discussions. <br><br>A few quick thoughts.<br><br>Many people

nowadays seem to operate on the paradigm that "If I am

right, you must be wrong"! For some reason they are

unable to see both views being right, which is of

special importance in these type of discussions. I wonder

where this comes from? Is it a legacy of the industrial

competitive world where competition implies proving 'my

product is better than yours'? Is it the ego which is

looking for validation again and again and proving others

wrong gives them that sense? I'm

curious.<br><br>Someone talked about silence being the ultimate stage. If

we were all there we wouldn't have any need for this

club would we? I certainly would have missed out on a

lot of growth!!<br><br>A question I have posted

before and would love some discussion on it. To the

Bhaktas .. what is your practice? What is the goal of

your practice? How does your practice lead to

God-realization? <br><br>To lucideye, how do you put the knowledge

gained from the texts you have presented into practice?

How has it effected .. changed your life? What is

your goal and how has it taken you closer to attaining

your objective?<br><br>The purpose of this club is to

foster a dailogue between followers of different paths

in an attempt to understand each other. It doesn't

imply converting anyone to a system of thinking

different from what is important or real to them but it is

an attempt at bringing about harmony through a

better understanding. And who else but sadhaks

themselves of different schools can shed light on their

respective paths?<br><br>There are soo many people today who

are following conscious paths towards realizing the

perfection inherent in our True Selves. Wouldn't the world

be a better place if all the energies could be

harnessed for the raising of the world consciouness and

none is wasted in insulting, hurting, putting down one

another, creating divisiveness, using eloquent words in

public and spiteful actions beind the scenes and all the

rest of the 'games people play'? <br><br>Do we not all

have some common goal? Love, see divinity in all, Tat

twam asi etc etc? At least for a family called

spiritual sadhaks? <br><br>Love and light to

all!<br><br>Tat Twam Asi<br><br>UMA

[Guest guest]

Ah...Uma!<br><br>The voice of

reason.....<br><br>To your question:<br><br>l. "What is your

practice?"<br> (Mysticism..incorporating truths from all the

world's major religions.)<br>2."What is the goal of your

practice?"<br>(Enlightenment. Understanding. Doing God's Will.<br>Being a

conduit for that Will. Learning. Attaining the Christ

Consciousness. Perfecting the human self. Ascending back to His

consciousness.)<br>3."How does your practice lead to

God-realization?"<br>(Through decreeing, meditation and

prayer....one<br>attains a higher vibration. I draw down God's<br>pure

rays to cleanse, purify, heal the four lower bodies as

well as the chakras; balance the threefold flame in

the secret chamber of the heart; attain

enlightenment; transmute all negative energies in the four

bodies; "burn" in the violet flame any accumulation of

"debris" in my temple; and so on.<br><br>It's not an easy

task but my burden is Light!<br>Light!

Light!<br><br>OM ,<br><br>Mav

[Guest guest]

"A question I have posted before and would love

some discussion on it. To the Bhaktas .. what is your

practice? What is the goal of your practice? How does your

practice lead to God-realization?" <br><br>Good luck on

your exams Uma. Wish me luck on mine, they are next

saturday all morning.<br><br>My sadhna involves hearing

(bhagavatam), chanting (the holy name of Krsna) and remembering

the name, fame, and qualities of Sri Krsna. In this

age of Kali Yuga the most important sadhna is Japa

Yoga or chanting and it is my effort to chant

offenselessly. When i was given diksha by my Gurudev, he

promised me that if i chanted offenselessly i will be

blessed by Bhaktidevi with pure devotional service and

return to Godhead.<br><br>This practice is harder than

it sounds if false ego controls my life. However if

i simply surrender and accept the shelter of my

Guru and his teaching then this sadhna is light and

enjoyable. i am still wrestling with my ego and i rely on my

spiritual master to support me and my endeavors which is

the promise of the guru-shisha relationship.

<br><br>Krsna promises me in Gita, "Dedicate your mind

exclusively to Me, O Arjuna, Fix your intelligence in Me, and

as a result, you will definately reside with Me

after death. Of this there is no doubt." (Gita 12.8) If

i can not accomplish this, He states further, "O

Dhananjaya, if you cannot establish your mind in Me with firm

faith, alternatively try to reach Me by the practice of

repeated meditation on Me." (Gita 12.9)<br><br>The goal of

my bhajan is to be blessed with eternal service to

the lotus feet of Sri Krsna and never forget Him.

<br><br>om tat sat<br><br>>:*)

[Guest guest]

Jiun, a Shingon master, was a well-known Sanskrit

scholar of the Tokugawa era. When he was young he used to

deliver lectures to his brother students. <br><br>His

mother heard about this and wrote him a letter:

<br><br>"Son, I do not think you became a devotee of the Buddha

because you desired to turn into a walking dictionary for

others. There is no end to information and commentation,

glory and honor. I wish you would stop this lecture

business. Shut yourself up in a little temple in a remote

part of the mountain. Devote your time to meditation

and in this way attain true realization."

<br><br>Spencer

[Guest guest]

What an eye opener !<br>Straight into the heart.<br>Extreme austerity is a thing

of the mind and nothing like it !<br>bye<br>really

[Guest guest]

Ah, again forgot,<br>that(559) was for you Spencer<br>Glad for you

[Guest guest]

Hello UMA,<br><br>I am new to this group. Thank

you for the nice post. You are right, it would be

helpful for us all to realize our similarities and

celebrate our differences.<br><br>You asked what is the

practice of the bhaktas and what is their goal. I can't

speak for others, but I will reply as I am an aspiring

Krsna bhakta.<br><br>Of course I could write a book to

answer this question - in fact many books have been

written for that purpose - but I will try to be short and

sweet.<br><br>There are five main practices for Gaudiya Vaishnava's

which we place special emphasis on. According to the

Chaitanya Caritamrta,<br><br>'One should associate with

devotees, chant the holy name of the Lord, hear Srimad

Bhagavatam, reside at Mathura, and worship the deity with

faith and veneration. Thes five limbs of devotional

service are the best of all. Even a slight performance of

these precwsses of these five awakens love for Krishna.

Whether a person executes only one or many of these

processes of devotional service, the waves of love of

Godhead will well up as a result of his fixed

determination, or nistha."<br><br>Sadhu sanga is considered

important because through it we come close to Krsna. In the

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto three, chapter 25, text 25 Lord

Kapila tells his mother Devahuti:<br>"In the association

of pure devotees, discussino of the pastimes and

activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very

pleasing and satisfying to the ear and the heart. By

cultivating such knowledge one gradually becomes advanced on

the path of liberation, and thereafter he is freed,

and his attraction becomes fixed. Then real devotion

and devotional service begin."<br><br>So Sadhu sanga

is most important.<br><br>Later in the same

discussion Lord Kapila tells his mother:<br><br>"Therefore

persons whose minds are fixed on the Lord engage in the

intensive practice of devotional service. That is the only

means for attainment of the final perfection of

life."<br><br>So the 'intensive practice' referred to is hearing

about Krsna, chanting his name, remembering his

pastimes, serving him etc. Our main focus is chanting the

maha mantra. Hare krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare

Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare - this

is the process of spiritual practice recommended for

this age.<br><br>The goal, or final attainment that

Krsna bhaktas are aiming at is Prema - loosely

translated as love of God into english. The vedas speak of

Dharma, artha, karma, and moksha as the four primary aims

of human society. But Sri Chaitanya Mahaprahu has

shown that the 'fifth goal' and real aim worth living

for is Prema which is exemplefied by the residents of

Vrndavana (Krsna's abode). The Srimad Bhagavatam states

that it's purpose is to expound the highest truth with

no tinge of cheating. No room for personal ambition.

It says that the perfect religion should be

unmotivated and uninterrupted loving service to God. That is

our aim.<br><br>I hope that is

helpful.<br><br>sincerely<br>Audarya lila dasa

[Guest guest]

Dear Spencer,<br><br>I agree. But since we are

human, we first want to get a concept of that what we

are searching. If we have got that, we can shut

ourselves up in a temple, though there are so many ways

besides that.<br>Be tolerant. If you want to shut

yourself up in a temple. Do it. If you want to live in a

monastry. Do it. But recognize that there are many other

ways to attain realization.<br>Even the awy of direct

awakening without having ever heard of any spiritual

concept!<br><br>Love,<br><br>Alex

[Guest guest]

"If i am right then u must be wrong" Tatwamasi

has beautifully, in one sentence summed up view of

today's materialistic man.<br><br>I fully agree with

Betan_anand that following a particular sect is not a

guarantee of being religious. As Swami Vivekananda said,"

religion is a personal thing, and i wil be happy if each

person in the world has his own religion ! The

difference of Shaiva and vaishanava and rigid rituals is

more common in South India, in north we do not have

such rigid distinctions.<br><br>And what Spencer and

Vijay have written is the real aim of this club. Do

Meditation and find the truth yourself. Do not believe

paths, sects even books. Find the truth yourself.

Because what i Find is the truth rest all is

inference.<br><br>Lucideye is not wrong when he says "I am Brahma", after

all this is what Advaita is about..(I hope i will be

learned like him in such young age in my next

birth).<br><br>I remember one incident. One of my friends came

back from Paris. He visited Eiffel Tower 3/4 times and

when he came back, my friend Vinod, a very learned

peson caught hold of him and asked if he had seen

Eiffel Tower.<br> "yes" he said<br><br>vinod - Ok tell

me how many stairs are there from ground floor to

3rd floor.<br><br>P- I dont know, but i saw third

floor<br><br>v- Ok, can u tell me how many screws are there fixed

on it.<br><br>P- I dont know, but there were screws

all around<br><br>V- Ok there is a restaurant on top

of tower, can you tell its name <br><br>P- Yes there

was a restaurant but i dont know what name it had ! I

was spell-bound by seeing it so did not notice these

details.<br><br>V-It seems you have never visited Paris and never seen

Eiffel Tower...You are a liar<br><br>All friends laughed

at him. But it sent me in deep thought. I knew P has

been in Paris and has certainly seen Eiffenl Tower. V

has never been to Paris but his logical brain and

memory and his habit of reading a lot gave him an upper

hand. BUT still V is wrong....knowing about Eiffel

Tower is in no comparison to seeing it.<br><br>So we

should be P not V. And Sadhna is the only way. We should

remember some facts<br><br>1- There is only one God, and

Jivatama is nothing but a reflection of that Brahma in

Prakriti - THIS IS A TRUTH<br><br>2- Shri Krishna is Param

Atma and we are Jivas, we should love, him serve him

and reach him by doing Nishkaam Karma - THIS IS A

TRUTH<br><br>3- Param Siva is supreme consciousness, and Shakti

who is not separate from him manifests the Universe -

THIS IS A TRUTH<br><br>4- We have Kundalini Shakti and

seven Chakras and by raising Kundalini and taking it

from Muladhara to Sahasradhara one gets Moksha - THIS

IS ALSO A TRUTH<br><br>5- Buddha got Nirvana by

continuous meditation on who I am - THIS IS A TRUTH<br><br>6

- Guru Nanak taught God is one, and all men are

equal and anybody having faith in Guru and love for

humanity will reach his realms - THIS TOO IS A

TRUTH<br><br>7 - Islaam says God is one and Mohd. was his

Paigambar - This is a truth too<br><br>8- God is there and

Christ was his son sent to spread message of love and

compassion - THERE IS NO UNTRUTH IN THIS.<br><br>9 - Some

worship demi-gods for their wordly gains, but they infact

worship Krishna or Shiva but in an incomplete way hence

they get limited gains not Moksha - WELL ANOTHER

TRUTH<br>AND SO ON...<br><br>One Truth does not contradict the

other truth. Now all above are Truths, but in parts

none of them is absolute. If we believe in all of them

as Truth the sum-total of those Truth will be Truth

but still incomplete. The final Truth is not with

human beings, not with any guru or any path. The one

who knows the absolute Truth is Truth himself, none

else.<br><br>Can we at least, collect these truths and make our

treasure of Truth bigger instead of clinging to one Truth

and Rejecting other truths...<br><br>Hari Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

the key word in your post is direct awakening -<br><br>now, we are on the same

wavelength . forget everything else krishna, rama, sai baba, christ. etc.

<br><br>Spencer

[Guest guest]

Dear Spencer,<br>you wrote:<br><br><< the

key word in your post is direct awakening

-<br><br>now, we are on the same wavelength . forget everything

else krishna, rama, sai baba, christ. etc.

>><br><br>This is the buddhist's point of view and I widely

agree with it, but I can't forget my own SELF that is

God (or to satisfy all Dvaitins: a part of

God).<br><br>I'll give you another evidence that God exists:<br>You

certainly believe in the immortality of the soul. Since

your soul is consciousness and immortal you must

develop to higher and higher realms as "time" goes by.

So, what do you think have you become when you have

reached the HIGHEST level of CONSCIOUSNESS?

<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Alex