What is Maya

[Guest guest]

Chhota Bhai has written << rajeev, your

statement that real bhakti is possible only to a jnani can

be an eye-opener>><br><br> This is not a

logical statement. For a Jnani there is no duality and

Bhakti needs at least two persons one being the bhakta

and the other being loved/devoted. If everything is

one Soul then whose Bhakti it will do ? (BUT BHAI you

know i am not an intellectual like you or rajeev so if

the question looks foolish to you, please dont bash

me otherwise this Rakshabandhan i will abandon you!)

<br><br> If Advaita says the world is unreal, what Krishna

Bhakta take the world as ? Is it real, unreal, imaginary

or as True as Krishna. And what is the role of

Universe in a Bhakta's life ??<br><br> Perhaps brother

Audriya Lila dasa peggy or someother Bhakta may like to

enlighten me.<br><br>Love<br><br> :)<br><br><br>Sushma

Rani

[Guest guest]

Maya is a dynamic force that blocks our logical

thinking. Due to maya, we select certain goal in life which

we do not actually deserve. In samudra manthana,

asuras are overshadowed by the maya. Maya is crowded

with emotion. <br>-ddroy

[Guest guest]

pls dont call him BHAI, it has a dangerous meaning in Mumbai

[Guest guest]

Aadarniya behna raani,<br>please do not quote me

out of context, i was only re-quoting what rajeev

pointed out from the geeta which was as

---<br><br><<Bhakti of what kind? According to the Geeta, there are

four kinds of people who seek God: Aarta - those in

pain, Arthaarthee - those who seek material pleasures,

jijnaasu - the curious ones, and jnaani - the sages. Among

these, it is only the bhakti of the fourth kind that is

of *real significance*. In case of a jnaani, there

is no need of effacement of the ego - it has

already<br>happened. So, it is the effacement of ego that gives birth

to bhakti, not the other way

around.>><br><br><br>the question is, what constitutes real bhakti

?<br>just the act of acting like a bhakta?<br>or what

rajeev pointed out, *after* the effacement of ego

?<br><br>are we not calling "aarta", the first kind as bhaktas

if they simply start behaving like one, as shrimaan

audaryaji stated in the case of "vaidhi-bhakti" , which

translates as the "method of bhakti".<br>Is this the real

bhakti ?<br><br>As to your other questions, who knows,

the world may be as real as brahman but may be our

concepts of its reality are false ?<br>What is

illusion(maya) after all, assuming something to be what it is

not(like a rope to be a snake). So that shows that though

our perception was wrong but there WAS some reality

behind the 'snake'(ie the rope). Similarily this world

is indeed real, but maybe not what you and me

percieve it to be.<br><br>All i said was it would be

interesting for all the "bhaktas" to look within and reply

honestly as to the nature of their bhakti.<br>--vaidhi

bhakti, only ways and methods<br>--bhakti without any

personal ego<br>--bhakti of a minor ego over-awed by a

super-ego(like the bhai's of mumbai do it to lesser mortals

<br>--or something else?<br><br>i hope you do not see any

violence in this post, just my natural fervour, so please

do not forget me on rakshbandhan

[Guest guest]

thanks Bhai (oops sorry) Dear Saraswati for

the reply. But your views are different from those of

Advaita people as they say world was never real like

horns of rabbit, which never were. What you are in

reality ? vedanti, bhakta, karma yogi or BHAI ?

<br><br> You are indeed a genius. I wait for other Bhaktas

to tel their views.<br><br>hare krishna

[Guest guest]

Respected Sushmaji<br>i hope i can live up to

your expectation to give you a nice answer to you

question.<br>You ask, "If Advaita says the world is unreal, what

Krishna Bhakta take the world as ? Is it real, unreal,

imaginary or as True as Krishna. And what is the role of

Universe in a Bhakta's life ??"<br><br>This Krsna Bhaktin

believes this material world to be real, but temporary,

much like my material body. i believe when jivas like

you and i have a desire to believe we are

controllers, then this manifest world is created for us to

fulfill that desire. Unfortunately, the more we want to

control things, the more things slip from our control. It

is frustrating. But it teaches a lesson to us if we

choose to learn it. <br><br>That lesson is twofold;

since we do not control, who does? And what is the plan

of that controller?<br><br>So long as someone wants

to try to control this world this world shall be

manifested for his/her pleasure/pain. The universe is also

manifested in support to this material world. For example

the sun provides light and energy to us. The moon

provides gravity and indirect light for us to utilize. But

can we affect the radioactive rays of the sun? Can we

change the gravitational effects of the moon? My answer

is no. So i do not in reality control either the sun

or the moon. <br><br>We and the items manifest in

this material existance are merely "balls in play"

controlled by a higher authority. As i see it we have two

choices, we can continue to try to master our environment

and therefore return to this plane again and again.

Or we can devote our attention to the source of this

world and inquire of his plan for us. Surely we are not

here by coincidence or random chance, dont you

agree?<br><br>That is the first step of the bhakta, to first inquire

of the real controller.<br><br>om tat

sat<br><br>>:*)

[Guest guest]

The amazing thing about realizing that you are

not the controller is that is frees you from anxiety.

A good example was a time i was flying within the

indian continent. i bought my ticket in advance, got to

the airport in Calcutta well with time to spare and

the plane was delayed. Imagine my irritation, i had a

connecting train to catch and prepurchased tickets for that

also. i was livid but what could i do? Would yelling at

the gate keeper help my situation? i just sat and

waited like everyone else.<br><br>When i stopped trying

to make things happen i really started to enjoy my

trip. Things happen within the will of Bhagavan, not

the will of peggy. Coinsidently, my next stop was

Vrindavan.<br><br>om tat sat <br><br>>:*)

[Guest guest]

Sushmaji(back to business as usual?),<br><br>the

reality behind the horns of the rabbit are its long ears.

You are confusing Buddhist nihilism(shunnyavaad) with

Advaita.<br>Me? I am nothing, just a post mortemist.

(:0)<br><br>hara hara mahaadev

[Guest guest]

horns of the rabbit, is it nihilism of

buddhism??<br><br>Bhaiya jee ( no bhai), i am not as intelligent as you

are but please read again and let me know which HINDU

scripture talked about rope and snake, mother of pearl, and

a rabbit with horn (also son of a widow). I give

you a clue:<br><br>Is it one of an upanishada<br>is

it Ashtavakra Geeta<br>is it Yoga

Vashishthaa<br><br> Since I am a fool, i dont remember where i read

it, but surely it was not Budhism, It was in

Hinduism, a religion I AM PROUD OF

!<br><br>SUSHMA<br><br>Thank God i did not read the message where gypsyqueenb

called me a prostitute, otherwise hell would have broken

out. How sweet is Uma who removed it immediately.

[Guest guest]

Sushmaji,<br>Now we are warming up, good.<br>When

did i ever say that the eg. you gave of 'horns/ears

of rabbit' is from buddhist literature ????<br>You

quote from the hindu books only but the meaning you

attribute to it is in line with the concept of shunnyata

which has a prominent place in buddhism.<br>Advaita

literature always stresses on the ILLUSION of horns of

rabbit, snake instead of seeing the trueness of the ears

of the rabbit, rope etc.<br>The horns of the rabbit

'seen' dissappear when one sees that they were actually

its ears and wrongly percieved to be horns.<br>In the

same way, advaita says, the world as we see

dissappears for a jnani as if he has woken from a dream. This

does NOT mean that there is no underlying reality

behind the illusion of the world as we percieve it.

There surely was something but that was just one

(advait) reality appearing as many.<br><br>The concept

that nothing exists at all, even the observer, is

called "nihilism". In this neither the horns nor the

ears exist, only a void.<br><br>All these are trying

to express in words the ultimate experience which

cannot be expressed in words, so all this

vaada-prativaada takes place. Who knows, how it really is

?<br><br>Again, i say that when advaita says that "the world does

not exist", it is only in the sense of all the

examples of rabbit, snake etc.Which means that what we

percieve to be the world does not exist, there is an

underlying reality which is not percieved due to our

ignorance(maya). Or the world exists, but not as we percieve it to

be, same as the horns actually exist as ears but we

wrongly percieve them to be horns---- giving the

conclusion "the horns do not exist". But all the while,

behind the 'non-existence' of horns there hides the fact

of the 'existence' of the ears.<br><br>It is all

right for a bhakta to say "I am a fool" for he is

anchored to a supreme being. But when discussing jnana, it

is a crime to say that.You are not at all a fool but

the all knowing, omnipotent, omniscient absolute, it

is the very same illusion or maya that makes you say

that you are a fool.<br>It is with pleasure that i

carry out this discussion, please continue, for reality

is sometimes exposed by continuously hammering away

at one point.<br>I also am VERY proud to be a hindu

like you but i do not see hinduism as a religion in

the conventional sense. It can be termed as the

mother of religions. Either it has given birth to many

sampradayas( called religion in the conventional sense) or has

sheltered many of different origin with the same mamataa.

As Sri Ramakrishna demonstrated so clearly, even

christianity and islam are just two sampradayas of which a

hindu can help himself. It does not require us to

discard hinduism to eneble us to follow

christianity.<br>Hinduism, simply put is the way of life of the future if

mankind wishes to survive !<br>You gave me an opening to

talk about hinduism, thank you, sis<br><br>yours truly

[Guest guest]

thankyou Peggyjee,<br><br> For the reply. But one

question still remains. Maya is treated as conscious or

non-conscious, as per your belief. <br><br> Do krishna lovers

take Maya as a separate thing or a part of Krishna

?<br><br>regards