Maya ?? Prakriti ??

[Guest guest]

wow (svaha?)<br>This subject touched me deeply.

You said, 'Bhaktas also take Maya or Prakriti as an

obstacle which keeps them away from GOD. Kabir said ,"

Maya Mahaa Thhagini hum jaani - Maya is the biggest

cheater i came to know".'<br><br>That is true to my

understanding of Bhakti too. But i understand maya to be of two

natures: Mahamaya of which Kabir spoke, and Yogamaya which

is a deliberate covering by the Lord. <br><br>Both

are manifestations of the Supreme Person

undifferentiated as yet by the actions of the three modes of

material nature (goodness, passion, and ignorance.

Yogamaya is illusion through the will of God (ex. the

gopis refused to accept that Sri Krsna was Bhagavan

even by the appearance of Visnu before them) and

Mahamaya is our desire to be covered in illusion.

<br><br>"The total material nature, also known as Brahman, is

impregnated by Me, with the living beings; thus I make their

embodied existence possible. (Gita 14.3) <br><br>>:*)

[Guest guest]

MAYA is durga and God is Shiva both are separate

and together at the same time, this separation is at

some planes only<br><br>when we rise higher we know

they are one they were one and they will be

one<br><br>this i know in theory only LOL<br>Jai Jai shiv shanker

[Guest guest]

silentsoul<br><br><<2- treat the universe

as real..and fight our way out of it with Bhakti,

Raj or Hathha yoga>><br><br>I don't know about

Bhakti Yoga. But, not to be argumentative here, I think

that Raja Yoga, of which, Hatha Yoga is a part, does

not treat the universe as real. The whole purpose of

Raja and Hatha Yoga is<br><br> (1) to develop

'viveka', discrimination between the Real (i.e. Brahaman)

and the unreal (i.e. the universe),

<br><br>(2)'vairagya', dispassion, with its connotation of renouncing

desire and attachment to what was erroneously thought to

be real and <br><br>(3) to develop and focus prana

through asana, pranayama, pratyahara, and samyama for the

purpose of moving through Cosmic Consciousness to

Brahman.<br><br>Hari Om Tat Sat<br><br>omprem

[Guest guest]

This combination of the product of human

consciousness (thought) with Shakti makes manifestation of

things possible. The clothes we wear, the chair on which

we seat, the books we read, the computers we use;

all these were first conceived as ideas in the human

mind. The chairman of a big corporation conceives of an

idea that a fifty story sky-scraper building should be

built. He conveys this idea, using his power (shakti) of

speech, to the board of directors who approve it. The

idea is then conveyed with the aid of Mother Saraswati

(speech or written words) to the financiers, to the

architect, to the contractors, to the labourers on site. The

result is the manifestation of a fifty story building.

The thought became a thing . Thoughts are things.

Examine everything that surrounds one in the house.

Everything before being made existed as thought or idea

before becoming a stove, table, clock, calender,

screw-driver, soap powder. This is at the human level of

microcosm.<br>At the cosmic level of macrocosm, the combination of

Shiva and Shakti (Spirit and Matter) makes possible the

manifestation of the universe.The dynamic shakti functions on

the static Shiva. The substratum is Shiva and the

vibrant manifestation is shakti. Like the screen (the

substratum) and the projected image upon the screen. Shiva

and shakti are inseparable aspects of the one

Reality, like the whiteness in milk; like the brilliance

in diamond and like the word and its meaning. Just

as heat is inherent in fire, the power inherent in

God (Shiva) is maya (shakti). The manifest universe

is the display of shakti or maya. <br>Man is

constituted of both Shiva and and Shakti. The persisting

personality in him is Shiva and the perishing form is shakti.

The being in him is Shiva and the becoming in him is

shakti. The awareness or consciousness is Shiva and the

physique is shakti. The sentient Shiva manifests Himself

through the insentient matter viewed as shakti. The

insentient physique enshrines and nurtures the sentient in

man. In other words, mother Nature nurtures what is

sentient in man. Shakti rears the Shiva in man. Therefore,

worshipful attitude towards Shakti is incumbent upon man

evolving in Shivahood.

[Guest guest]

Theology abounds in terms such as Uma-Maheshwar,

Lakshmi-Narayana, Radha-Krishna, Sita-Rama, Shiva-Shakti,

Purusha-Prakriti, Ardhanarishwar, spirit and matter. These are all

indicative of the fact that existence is a mixture of the

sentient and the insentient.<br>The divine power is

addressed as Amba ,Bhavani Kalyani ,Durga, Chamundi,

Saraswati, Bhagavati, Meenakshi, Kamakshi, Lakshmi, Kali

etc.<br>The male and the female elements coexist even in the

vegetable kingdom which is still in the primitive stage of

evolution. In the feathered kingdom as well as in the animal

kingdom, the male and the female do jointly contribute to

the formation of the progeny. If humanity was viewed

as a unit it is found to be constituted with half-

man , half-woman. The entire creation is evidently

the embodiment of the masculine and the feminine

principles. Shiva is therefore adored as Ardhanarishwar

(ardha = half; nari=woman;Ishwar=Lord). The sentient and

the insentient are the two categories that constitute

nature. Nothing exists outside the pale of these

two.<br>Life in its original state is called Shiva. The

apparently insentient body or the vehicle through which it

manifests itself is called shakti. It is because of the

interplay of life and matter that nature is able to reveal

itself in all its splendour and glory. <br><br>Shri

Ramakrishna says :<br>The truth established in the Vedas, the

Puranas and the Tantras is but one Satchdananda. In the

Vedas it is called Brahman, in the Puranas it is called

Rama, and in the Tantras it is called Shiva.One

Satchdananda is called Brahman, Rama and Shiva.<br>The

formless God is real , and equally real is God with form.

It is like an infinite ocean, water everywhere, to

the right, left, above, below. Water enveloped in

water. It is the water of the great cause, motionless.

Waves spring up when it becomes active. Its activities

are creation(Brahma), preservation(Vishnu) and

dissolution(Shiva).<br>Brahman is where reason comes to a stop. There is the

instance of camphor. Nothing remains after it is burnt-

not even a trace of ash.<br>Brahman is beyond mind

and speech, beyond reason and logic. A salt doll

entered the ocean to measure its depth; but it did not

return to tell others how deep the ocean was. It melted

in the ocean itself.<br>Like butter and buttermilk,

one finds that Satchidananda Itself has become the

universe and the living beings. The blood and semen are

thin liquids, and out of them comes such a big

creature as man. Everything is possible for God. First of

all reach invisible Satchidananda and then coming

down, look at the universe. Everything is its

manifestation. It is God alone who has become everything. The

world by no means exists apart from him.<br>The

non-dualistic philosophy of Vedanta says that the acts of

creation, preservation and destruction, the universe itself

and all its living beings are the manifestations of

Shakti, the divine power or MAYA. If we reason it out, we

realise that all these are as illusory as a dream.

Brahman alone is the reality, and all else is unreal.

Even this very Shakti is unsubstantial, like a dream.

[Guest guest]

>From the Teachings of Shri Shankaracharya

:<br>The Supreme Self (or Ultimate Reality) who is Pure

Consciousness perceived Himself by Selfhood (i.e. Existence

with "I"-Conciousness). He became endowed with the

name "I". From that arose the basis of

difference.<br>He exists verily in two parts, on account of which,

the two could become husband and wife.Therefore, this

space is ever filled up completely by the woman (or the

feminine principle) surely.<br>The above two verses

explain how the One Ultimate Reality which is of the

nature of non-dual Existence - Consciousness became the

cause of the universe of multiplicity. The first

creative impulse in the Supreme Self is the pure

I-consciousness. This brings in duality in the One Transcendent

Reality, which is symbolically expressed as husband-wife

representing Pure Consciousness and its Creative Energy. This

Creative Energy is the effective cause as well as the

material cause of the entire universe which is stated to

be filled with it.<br><br>And He, this Supreme Self

thought (or reflected). Thence, human beings were born.

Thus say the Upanishads through the statement of sage

Yajnavalkya to his wife.<br>The primal manifestation of the

creative energy of Pure Consciousness is the I-

consciousness which results in duality. From that arises

thought or ideation of multiplicity, which gives rise to

the entire universe of beings.<br>From the experience

of bliss for a long time, there arose in the Supreme

Self a certain state like deep sleep. From that

(state) Maya (or the illusive power of the Supreme Self)

was born just as a dream arises in sleep.<br><br>The

non-dual Supreme Self is of the nature of Pure

Existence-Consciousness-Bliss. Just as a dream arises in sleep and produces

various objects, an inscrutable power called MAYA

manifests in the quiescent, blissful state of the Supreme

Self and this produces the bewildering variety of

objects and phenomena constituting the

universe.<br><br>The concept of Maya is central to Advaita Vedanta

..<br><br>This Maya is without the characteristics of (or

different from) Reality or unreality, without beginning and

dependent on the Reality that is the Supreme Self. She, who

is of the form of the THREE GUNAS (qualities or

energies of Nature) brings forth the Universe with movable

and immovable (objects). <br><br>Maya is not real,

since it disappears on the dawn of knowledge of the

Supreme Self. Maya is not unreal, since such a thing

would never appear at any time. Maya is equated with

Nature or the visible universe consisting of the three

modes of energy - Sattwa or harmony, Rajas or activity

and Tamas or inertia. Maya is the inscrutable cause

which depends on the Supreme Self which is the Ultimate

Reality. Nature is its apparent effect.

[Guest guest]

WITH EVERY GESTURE <br><br> How much may be done,

is done, by the brain and heart of one human

<br>being in contact with another! We are answerable for

incalculable <br>opportunities of good and evil in our daily

intercourse with every <br>soul with whom we have to deal;

every meeting, every parting, every <br>chance

greeting, and every appointed encounter, are occasions open

to us for which we are to account. To our children,

our servants, our <br>friends, our acquaintances - to

each and all, every day, and all day <br>long, we are

distributing that which is best or worst in existence -

<br>influence: with every word, with every look, with every

gesture, <br>something is given or withheld of great

importance, it may be to the <br>receiver. <br><br> F. A.

KEMBLE <br>----------------------------<br>If all is

maya then how much are we responsible for in relation

to others? As long as 'i' see a train coming, 'i'

need to move away even though it may only be maya. The

day 'i' am "realized", (break through the veils of

maya), the train and 'i' will be one, 'I' will see no

'train ' separate from me and will have no need to do

anything. <br><br>Some practical questions to ponder..

<br><br>Tat Twam Asi<br>UMA

[Guest guest]

Hai Guys..<br>First of all lemme tell you guys

that I'm a newbie in this club so please forgive me if

I say anything wrong. I can see something very deep

and thoughtful going on here. Sorry but I had some

contradictions.....Infact I wasnt convinced with some of the thought being

put up here.<br><br>Well, I'm a follower of the

'Bhagvat Geeta'. I believe very much in the fact that If

i'm born on this planet, I must do things. Krama,

that is. <br><br>If u think that way, I guess karma is

the only way to God. I'm not really sure as to what u

guys mean when saying 'Maya' or prakriti is an

obstacle to God, What I would say prakriti or Maya, is a

medium to God. If there were no such thing as Maya,

where would Krama go? I guess the message is clear?

There would be no concept of Karma without prakrati and

maya.<br><br>THis is what I feel.<br><br>I duuno, I might sound

like a complete stupid here, but I wrote what i felt

like.<br> <br>Biggies, please comment :-)<br><br>If u can,

please elaborate a bit on the concept of maya and

prakriti.<br><br>Sanket

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanket,<br>When you read the Bhagavat Gita

(BG), you will do well to read it slowly meditate on

each sloka to get at the meaning and when you read it,

read it fully. <br>I have nothing to say on what you

have just said. Read the BG fully atleast once and you

will realise that even the literal meaning says

something quite different.<br><br>Hari Om<br><br>Yours in

God,<br>Venkat

[Guest guest]

Thanks friends and my warm welcome to new

sadhakas joining our Satsangh!!<br><br> Dear Sanket no one

is stupid here and none is biggies! There is only

one difference either we are on the path of truth or

we are not. Stupid are those who are not even aware

there is a path of truth (though they are also being

dragged by Mother Nature on this path and one day those

will also start the journey consciously). Your point

is very valid and is a part of Truth.<br><br> As

long as we are dealing with the universe we have to

treat it as real, though we may think it is not. While

we are in dream we do not know it is unreal. We are

feared in dreams, we laugh, we run, we fight, we make

love, we hate and everything we do with a feeling of

reality. Only when we wake up we find it was all unreal.

So on the physical plane we have to accept its

reality at least for the time being and all our

Yama-Niyama, our Asnas, our Karma, Japa tapa etc. confirm that

we are taking this universe as real.<br>this is

something like one staying in a hotel doing all his work,

sleeping taking bath, eating etc. still knowing in heart

it is not his Home having no affinity towards hotel

room and always thinking of Home and family.<br><br>

Baburoy, your explanation of Shiva and shakti amazed me !!

It was simply great !!! <br><br> almost all the

paths of Hinduism do believe in ONE supreme

consciousness. The only difference is how they explain the

manifestation and working of the Universal system. <br><br> NO

truth contradicts the other Truth. It must compliment

the other. The fault lies in our mind if we see the

contradictions. All the truths are interwoven and interlinked and

one truth can be explained with the help of

others.<br><br> Now comes the question of Consciousness. Is the

Universe around us Conscious ? Or Is it just an inert

matter following the dead laws of physics and chemistry

OR it reacts to our feelings ?? If not why not ? and

if yes what is the relation of co-existence between

an individual consciousness and universal

consciousness.<br><br> Is Prakriti around us alive ? What is the basis

of individual consciousness and what is the need for

an individual consciousnss ?<br><br> <br>Hari Aum

Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

Why nature brings obstacles in our path ? If she is our Mother she should help

us<br><br>Nahin ?<br><br>vinod

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm really sorry....I'm a real

newbie....<br>Just for lettin u know my current status, I'm like 20

yrs old and I untill a few months back I didnt

believe in God. It just happened so, that I had to accept

the greater power and I started absorbing whatever I

could.<br><br>Thats what probably explains what I wrote

earlier.<br><br>Anyway, thanks for re-directing me. I shall be really

thankful if u or anyother guys could send me a few links

to online versions of geeta.<br><br>I shall be

really greatful to you.<br><br>Sanket

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanket, Hari BOl !<br><br> Please accept my

humble obeisances!<br> All glories to Srila

Prabhupada!<br><br> If you really want to read Bhagavat Gita online

or to download it, try www.harekrishnatemple.com

there you will find Bhagavat Gita as it is ,with

comments of Srila Prabhupada and Srimad Bhagavatam jewlel

of vedic knowledge, and many other precious vedic

books wich are full of transcedental knowledge and

knowledge from all spheres of life.<br> Hare Krishna and

all the best

[Guest guest]

Greetings,<br><br>I am not so familiar with the

different teachings of hinduism and it was extremely

interesting to go through the latest messages in this club.

It is really very helpful to know that there are

different schools of hinduism and what they teach, because

this clears doubts and confusion (after creating much

confusion in the beginning lol). One needs to have

understanding, tolerance and clear mind to see in the end that

there are no contrudictions in truth.<br><br>As I was

reading the various messages my mind started to annoy me

with these questions: "Angelina, what is truth and

what is illusion? You understand probably these

messages but only intellectually." and the posting of

Silentsoul made my mind start revoluting against all my book

knowledge "What do you really know Angelina?If you clear

your mind from all this second hand experiences (book

knowledge) what is it that you perceive and how do you

perceive it?" And I sadly realized that I dont know

anything in truth. Lets forget about all those teachings

for a second. What is my reality? We all know what is

our materialistic reality. Attachment to the world

and to the body. Even when there are short

perceptions through the sixth sense it is very difficult to

truly KNOW and BELIEVE constantly that this world is

not real. I might claim that it is a fake world, I

might even convince myself of this fact. But something

deeper, u may call it subsoncsiousness or instict, which

only sees and doesnt reason, it never gets convinced.

<br>..........<br>I would like to share with you a quote from the

commentary on Gita by Paramahansa Yogananda. I find his book

"God talks with Arjuna" superb:<br><br>"The

pantheistic doctrine of the Gita is that God is

everything.Its verses<br>celebrate the discovery of the

Absolute,Spirit beyond creation,as being<br>also<br>the hidden

Essence of all manifestation. Nature,with her infinite

variety<br>and<br>inexorable laws,is an evolute of the Singular Reality

through a cosmic<br>delusion:maya,the "Magical

Measurer"that makes the One appear as many<br>embracing their

own individuality-forms and intelligences existing in

an<br>apparent separation from their Creator.Just as a dreamer

differentiates his<br>one consciousness into many dream beings

in a dream world,so God,the Cosmic<br>Dreamer,has

separated His consciousness into all the

cosmic<br>manifestations,with souls individualized from His own One Being

endowed<br>with<br>the egoity to dream their personalized existences

within the<br>Nature-ordained<br>drama of the Universal

Dream.[...]This God-realization cannot be attained<br>merely by

reading a book,but only by dwelling every day on the

above truth<br>that life is a variety entertainment of

dream movies full of hazards of<br>duality-villains of

evil and heroic adventures with goodness;and by

deep<br>yoga meditation,uniting human conciousness with God's

cosmic<br>consciousness.Thus does Gita exhort the seeker to

right<br>action-physical,mental and spiritual-forward this goal.We come from God

and<br>our ultimate destiny is to return to Him.The end and

the means to the end<br>is<br>yoga,the timeless

science of God-union."

[Guest guest]

Dear Friend:<br><br>You provided a valuable

insight in your posting, and I would like to add a point

to it....<br><br>Paramahansa Yogananda describes in

"The Divine Romance" that the world is essentially a

cosmic motion picture of God's thoughts. So it's

basically a dream world. <br><br>But as Morpheus says in

the movie 'The Matrix': "Have you ever had a dream

that you were so sure was real? Unless you wake up

from the dream, how would you know the difference

between the dream world and the real world?"<br><br>We

are still caught up in the dream, and as Yogananda

says: "If you bang your dream-head against a

dream-wall, then you would experience dream-pain". But unless

we wake up from this dream, the dream-pain would

seem very real (LOL).<br><br>So the purpose of

spiritual practice is to enable us to wake up from the

dream and realize that our true home is located deep

inside the heart of the all-powerful, all-loving God of

the universe. <br><br>May Divinity help us realize

our true Self, resulting in the final end of all

sorrows!<br><br>Jai God, Christ and Guru!<br><br>-Mukund

[Guest guest]

There are many Bhagavad Gita translations each

with a specific emphasis appealing to different

temperaments. My favorite ones that I refer to are by Swami

Chimayananda, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Swami Satchidananda, and

Paramahansa Yogananda and of course the traditional

Ramakishna Mission version. While all present the essential

message of the Gita, the elaborations and explanations

present different paths of sadhna - practice. Some are

focused on more practical aspects of life, others on the

bhakti (devotion) aspects, and still others focus on the

sankhya yoga (path of knowledge) aspects of the paths.

<br><br>I'm not sure how many of the text versions aside from

that of Srila Prabhupada is available on the net.

Perhaps as you find them you could post a link in our

club to add to the the rescources here.

<br><br>Thanks<br><br>Tat twam asi<br>UMA

[Guest guest]

The following is extracted from "The Conscious

Immortality " by Ramana Maharshi.<br><br>M: There are

different methods of approach to prove the unreality of the

universe. The example of the dream is one of them. Jagrat,

swapna and sushupti are all treated elaborately in the

scriptures in order that the reality underlying them might

be revealed. The intention is not meant to

accentuate differences among the three states. Their purpose

must be kept clearly in view.<br> They say that the

world is unreal - but to what degree? Is it like the

son of a barren mother, or a flower in the sky? These

are mere words without any reference to facts,

whereas the world is a fact and not a mere word.<br> The

answer is that it is a superimposition on the one

Reality like the appearance of a snake on a coiled rope

in dim light. Here too the wrong identity ceases as

soon as a friend points out that it is a rope, whereas

in the matter of the world, it persists even after

we have been told it is unreal. How is that? The

appearance of water in a mirage persists after the fact that

it is a mirage has dawned on us. So it is with the

world. Though knowing it to be unreal, it continues to

manifest - but we do not try to satisfy our thirst with

the water of the mirage. As soon as one knows that it

is a mirage, one gives it up as useless and does not

run after it to get water. <br><br>Hari Aum !

[Guest guest]

Welcome back chitranivas. It's been a while!

<br><br>Thank you for posting from Ramana Maharshis teachings.

Here is another one. It's a fascinating experience to

put his teachings to practice!<br><br>Baba? Are you

listening? Please add some wisdom to our dialogue!<br><br>Be

love, Be peace!<br><br>UMA<br>------------------<br>THE

TRUE SELF<br><br>The mind is nothing but a lot of

thoughts,<br>Of all these many thoughts it is the thought,

"I",<br>That is the root. So we can see by that<br>The mind in

truth is only the thought "I".<br><br>Whence,

therefore, does this 'I-thought' have its birth?<br>With

vigilant and ever-active mind<br>Seek this, and

crestfallen the 'I' becomes.<br>The search, itself, the quest

of Wisdom is.<br><br>This search pursued till 'I'

has disappeared,<br>There now shines forth the 'I-I'

all alone;<br>The quest is finished, there's no more

to seek,<br>For this is truly the Infinite

SELF.<br><br>This is eternally the true import<br>Of the term 'I'.

For in the deepest sleep<br>We do not cease to be, we

still exist<br>Even though here, there is no sense of

'I'.<br><br>As I am Pure Existence, I am not<br>The body nor the

senses, mind nor life,<br>Nor even ignorance, for all

these things<br>Are quite insentient and so

unreal.<br><br>As there is not another consciousness<br>To know

Existence, it must follow that<br>Existence must itself be

consciousness.<br>So we ourselves are this same

consciousness.<br><br>In their real nature as Existence both<br>Creatures

and the Creator are the same,<br>The unique

Principle. In attributes<br>And knowledge only is a

difference found.<br><br>Realization of the SELF

alone,<br>Eliminating all its attributes,<br>Is God-Realization of a

truth,<br>As it is He that shines forth as the SELF.<br><br>To

be the SELF, that is to know the SELF,<br>As there

is no duality in SELF;<br>This is Thanmaya-Nishta,

or the state<br>Of absolutely being That in

truth.<br><br>That knowledge is true knowledge which

transcends<br>Knowledge and ignorance both equally,<br>And this alone is

truth. For there is no<br>Subject or object there that

can be known.<br><br>If one can only realize at

Heart<br>What one's true nature is, one then will find<br>That

it is infinite Wisdom, Truth and Bliss,<br>Without

beginning and without an end.<br><br> SHRI RAMANA MAHARSHI