Titles - Swamis, sadhus, yogis

[Guest guest]

Thank you devaraja for your announcements in our

clubs.<br><br>As before, your posts have triggered some

interesting questions for me. Your announcement for openings

and screenings for swamis made me realize that I had

very little knowledge about the organized aspect of my

religion. <br><br>Here are some of my questions I am hoping

our members will help answer.<br><br>1. Are there any

other lineages, aside from the 4 Swami orders at

Jyotimath (Uttar Pradesh), Dwaraka (Gujarat), Puri

(Orissa), Sringeri (Karnataka), and Kanchipuram (Tamil

Nadu), established by Shankaracharya, that can bestow

the title of Swami? What is the process involved in

getting that title? I am told, the names given to them

are indicative of the lineage.<br><br>2. What is the

differences between sadhus and yogis? When one uses titles of

Yogi, are they too given through a lineage by

initiation? Or are all yoga practitioners called yogis? Did

anyone establish Yogi orders like Swami orders

too?<br><br>3. Are titles of Sat Guru, Paramahansa etc, also

bestowed by institutions, organizations or by the 4 Piths

(religious centers) that give the Swami titles?<br><br>4.

Can Swamis from one order get "hired" by other

institutions for their spiritual work? In my limited

experinece with ashrams, I have only seen Swamis of one

order work with their order only. <br><br>Looking for

lots of input from our members.. please share your

knowledge and wisdom with all of us!<br><br>Thanks a

lot!!!<br><br>Tat twam asi<br>UMA

[Guest guest]

"2. What is the differences between sadhus and

yogis? When one uses titles of Yogi, are they too given

through a lineage by initiation? Or are all yoga

practitioners called yogis? Did anyone establish Yogi orders

like Swami orders

too?"<br><br>************************************<br><br>Every swami belongs to

the ancient monastic order which

was organized in its present form by Shankara.3

Because it is a formal order, with an unbroken line of

saintly representatives serving as active leaders, no man

can give himself the title of swami. He rightfully

receives it only from another swami; all monks thus trace

their spiritual lineage to one common guru, Lord

Shankara. By vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience to

the spiritual teacher, many Catholic Christian

monastic orders resemble the Order of Swamis. <br><br>In

addition to his new name, usually ending in ananda, the

swami takes a title which indicates his formal

connection with one of the ten subdivisions of the Swami

Order. These dasanamis or ten agnomens include the Giri

(mountain), to which Sri Yukteswar, and hence myself, belong.

Among the other branches are the Sagar (sea), Bharati

(land), Aranya (forest), Puri (tract), Tirtha (place of

pilgrimage), and Saraswati (wisdom of

nature).<br><br>:<br>:<br>:<br><br>Anyone who practices a scientific technique

of

God-contact is a yogi; he may be either married or unmarried,

either a worldly man or one of formal religious ties. A

swami may conceivably follow only the path of dry

reasoning, of cold renunciation; but a yogi engages himself

in a definite, step-by-step procedure by which the

body and mind are disciplined, and the soul liberated.

Taking nothing for granted on emotional grounds, or by

faith, a yogi practices a thoroughly tested series of

exercises which were first mapped out by the early rishis.

Yoga has produced, in every age of India, men who

became truly free, truly Yogi-Christs.<br><br>Like any

other science, yoga is applicable to people of every

clime and time. The theory advanced by certain ignorant

writers that yoga is "unsuitable for Westerners" is

wholly false, and has lamentably prevented many sincere

students from seeking its manifold blessings. Yoga is a

method for restraining the natural turbulence of

thoughts, which otherwise impartially prevent all men, of

all lands, from glimpsing their true nature of

Spirit. Yoga cannot know a barrier of East and West any

more than does the healing and equitable light of the

sun. So long as man possesses a mind with its restless

thoughts, so long will there be a universal need for yoga

or control.<br><br>-Paramahansa Yogananda,

Autobiography of a Yogi

[Guest guest]

1. There may be many other lineages but they do

not belong to the Sankaracharya Group (ie, Balak

Brahmachari, Sai Baba, Anandamoy Ma and other such groups)

some of them may not be of the Sanyassi type that is

they do not have the PRES MANTRA or the dikshsa mantra

of the sanyassi class.<br>Some institutions do grant

titles but mostly when you join them. Osho Group grants

title to even householders who do not practice the

vows.<br><br>2. Sadhus are people who tread any path of religion

ie, Bhakti, Jnana, Karma but YOGIS tread the path of

YOGA (cf. Patanjali Yoga Sutra). They practice the six

angas or divisions of Yoga like Yama, Niyama, Asana,

Pranayama, Dharana & Dhana.<br><br>3. Sat Guru, Paramahansa

are not titles as such, but can be granted by some

institutions, yet that would mean nothing because these are

titles of achievement can not be titles to be granted by

anybody.<br><br>4. These practices may be undertaken by small and

financially weak institutions. But at large this is never

done. Even if they do they retain their main lineage

and work for some specified span of time for some

reason. These sadhus are either on their own or have

broken away from their parent organization.<br><br>As

far as the post for Swamis is concerned I have

watched it with interest. The question remains what

organization and which sadhu will finally get in place. I only

hope the right people meet because it is not a

commercial post. A true Sanyassi will care less for that

type of post and the only way to figure out a true

sadhu is to get in touch with other sadhus; unless you

want an MBA to run the organization. May be then I

will Get Interested <br><br>LOL...

[Guest guest]

Om Blessed Self, Tatwamasi<br><br>Just to answer

a few of your questions:<br><br> Sadhus are saintly

people of any religion or spiritual path. They are

ascetics who have retired into seclusion in order to

practice sadhana. Yogis are people who have reached a

certain level of attainment in the practice of Yoga and

have been accorded that title by their guru. Yogis may

be householders, sadhus will not be

householders.<br><br>Also, a Yogi may follow any of the yoga paths. He or

she is not confined to Raja Yoga as one of the people

who responded to your post indicated. Incidentally,

Raja Yoga has 8 limbs, not 6: yama, niyama, asana,

pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and

samadhi.<br><br>The general yoga practitioner is called a yogin if

male and a yogini if female.<br><br>The term 'swami'

is given to anyone who joins a Hindu/vedanta

spiritual order. It is similar to calling a member of a

Christian monastic order, 'brother' or 'sister'. A Hindu

priest is not a swami unless he has also joined such a

spiritual order. Also, not all swamis will be or can be

Hindu priests. <br><br>Terms such as 'sat guru' are

usually accorded to those few members of an order of

swamis who have become Fully-Realized. It is a term of

respect that recognizes of the highest level of spiritual

attainment.<br><br>Swamis will usually stay with the order into which their

guru initiated them. To do otherwise is to go against

the guru's wishes for them.<br><br>Om namah

Sivaya<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

Blessed Self<br><br>Excellent and informative post. You may be a dude, but you

are not hokie<br><br>Om namah Sivaya<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

Yes Raja Yoga is astanga. My post had an

error.<br>In India, Sadhu is a person who practices

spirituality but need not live in seclusion.<br>Colloqually

Yogi is generally said to be a person performing Raja

Yoga, though we also say Jnana Yogi, Karma Yogi etc.

The later is in the sense of Yoga "to

connect".<br>Swamis need not always stay in the order in which he was

initiated. There is no such binding. Moreover strictly

speaking joining does not make one a swami. One has to

generally stay in some order for a specified time span to

become a swami.<br>A hindu priest is a purohita and not

a swami. But a swami can be a purohita too provided

he is a brahmana.<br>Joining a Hindu order does not

make one a Swami. Sakti initiates are tantrikas ie

Babas not Swamis. Even Vedanta order does not give

title of a swami. That is a way people call them. All

start as Brahmacharyas and later become Sannyasis.

[Guest guest]

Blessed Self <br><br>It is a mistake to refer to

someone as a Karma Yogi. The term should be 'karma yogin'

or 'karma yogini'. Only those with mastery of the

Karma Yoga path should be referred to as 'Karma Yogis'.

One popular example would be Mother

Teresa.<br><br>The same holds true for the other forms of Yoga as

well.<br><br>I agree that one often hears the term 'Yogi'

bandied about - sometimes in error, sometimes as sincere

imitation, and sometimes with deceitfulness in mind. But

calling an elephant a tiger will not make the elephant

into a tiger. And it distorts the meanings of

'elephant' and 'tiger' to the confusion of everyone. So too,

with the term 'Yogi'. Anyone can call themselves or

anyone else a Yogi for an reason whatsoever, but that

does not make them a Yogi. It is better to recognize

your true level of attainment. If that is 'Yogi', then

so be it: if it is 'yogin', then that is ok as well.

<br><br>To aggrandize oneself with self-conferred titles is

not a yogic thing to do as it engages the ego and

obscures the vision.<br><br>Om namah Sivaya<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

Dear Omprem .. Are you trying to differentiate

between students and masters when you suggest the words

yogins/yoginis vs Yogis? I hear you.<br><br>Our system has

certain traditions built into it to ensure that one's

ego, and self-serving motivations don't get in the way

of sincere seekers. In fact these are very common

"pitfalls" for any student. It is easy to have some

spiritual experiences or learn several spiritual texts etc

etc. and the sense of achievment and pride can easily

turning into arrogance unless it is consciously checked.

We live in the times when achievement is considered

measurable using the yardstick of money, awards, titles,

miracles. To top that, when new seekers get awed and begin

to shower appreciation, false or sincere, it

provides the perfect trapdoor for arrogance, which in turn

throws the student back to the beginings of their

journey. (The movie "Goundhog's Day .. is good imagery!

) The student begins to confuse the 'i' with the

"I" and begins the downward journey to learn the

values of surrender again. <br><br>It is imperative to

understand that each note in a piece of music makes up the

whole music, in fact is more than the sum of the notes.

Each note is important and needs to be perfected.

However, it is also to be remembered, the note becomes the

whole by being part of (surrendering) to the whole.

<br><br>Hence the tradition builds into the framework, a

deference to one's Guru for all knowledge, who in turns

defers* to his guru and their lineage and finally to the

ULTIMATE guru of all. This method helps keep students away

from the cluthes of the most powerful detractor of all

- our ego, that which stands between our selves and

our Selves. Of course not only does this has to be

said, but it has to be sincerely meant. <br><br>I am

reminded of the quote by Omkar Nath Thakur, a great

exponent of Indian vocal classical music, who says

<br><br>"Before I start singing,<br>I invoke my GOd, my

Guru.<br>I am nothing, I say, give me strength.<br><br>I am

nothing.<br><br>And then the strength begins <br>to seep into your

pores and you can <br>feel the glowling of your

soul."<br><br>Of course I have heard gurus speak of the difference

between being proudly humble versus being humbly proud.

But that is another thread of conversation.

<br><br>Members .. let's hear more on humilty its value, its

disadvantages, its role in our lives as spiritual seekers ..

here on earth to learn. <br><br>Love to all<br><br>Tat

twam asi<br>UMA<br><br><br>*Deference - reverence,

obeiance, devotion, surrender, gratitute etc are words with

similar meanings.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,<br><br>I find some discussion going

on words here like Yogis , Yogins or Yoginis etc

etc. One of the reasons of the downfall of Mother

India from it's glorious and astounding past and is

this : at some time , we became more interested in the

words and rules , what this word means and how exactly

it has to be applied. All this went more in relation

to rituals etc. So the concetration has become more

on the words , rules , their meanings etc. It is

important to know the words and their meanings but not

beyond a limit. <br>And most importantly it is " Name"

and "form" which constitutes Maya. And we are trying

to go beyond Maya ! And would it suffice or needed

to go into these details of this so much ? Yes we

need to understand what Maya is . That is what the "

Name " and "form" is . But nor every name and form.

The understanding of religion comes from looking at

the "Whole" and yet encompassing every micro detail.

If we go on getting the all the words many lives

would not be enough to do that. And we would become "

Language Pandits " rather than Sadhakas.<br>There was one

time in India , Upanishadic times , as we see in the

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad , when Spirituality was discussed in

the court rooms of Kings. But as time went by , as

people were more interested in discussing these words

and rules Religion has become the field of Pandits

and not of Sadhakas. But then the same scriptures

mention , from no less than a person as Narada and other

host of Seers that mere knowing of the Sastras does

not constitute Knowledge. and it can take us not much

further beyond.<br>And as Ramakrishna said , there is

much sand mixed with the sugar in the Books. And it is

hard to seperate them especailly for a new one

embarking on the path.<br>So lets go to the fountain-head

of Knowledge and not much bother about

words.......<br><br>Ramesh Verala veerala_in

[Guest guest]

Blessed Self, Tatwamasi<br><br>Thanks for you

post on guru, humility and acceptance of one's present

circumstances.<br><br>But if I could make just one point: it is not my

distinction between student and Master that is denoted by the

words 'yogin'/'yogini' and 'Yogi" respectively. That is

what those words mean. They have been used for

millenia. It is not a recent invention of mine.<br><br>Om

namah Sivaya<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

Blessed Self, veerala_in<br><br>Yes, the task is

to move beyond names and forms. But that is

impossible if the ego is not contained. <br><br>The

discussion about 'Yogi' and 'yogin'/'yogini' is about

containing the ego by not aggrandizing oneself through

claiming more personal knowledge or spiritual attainment

than is actually the case. It is about acknowledging

one's present state truthfully and humbly and

continuing to move beyond that state to Self-Realization. It

is about having no expectations from one's efforts

at spiritual development. It is about performing

your sadhana without goals or ego but with vikeka and

vairagya.<br><br>Om namah Sivaya<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

Omprem: "Yes, the task is to move beyond names and forms. But that is impossible

if the ego is not contained." <br><br>Actually there is no ego.