Titles - humility

[Guest guest]

First let me be very clear that I am not

infallable, what ever opinion I express is to the best of my

knowledge and memory. I dont have books infront of me and I

access the Net while working from office. I just make

opinions to acccept or reject it depends on the

individual.<br><br>Personally I have understood the yardstick as very variable.

I will just relate a story:<br><br>Once one of the

disciples of Sri Ramakrishna was travelling in a boat and

some people bagan to speak ill of Sri Ramakrishna.

This disciple enforced restraint and coolly began to

listen to them. After he came to Dakshineswar he related

the story to Sri Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna was

surprised and told him how could he cooly listen to the

slanderings of his guru? He should have

reacted.<br><br>Another time another day another of his disciples was

caught in a position when someone passed slandering

comments on Sri Ramakrishna. Being aggressive by nature he

almost broke that fellows jaw. Agitated he came to

Dakshineswar and related the tale to Sri Ramakrishna. This

made Sri Ramakrishna furious. He scolded that disciple

and said what did it matter if anybody should slander

him? Truth does not change by words, moreover he (Sri

Ramakrishna )was there to see it, who is he (disciple)to

settle accounts.<br><br>Primarily I found it funny but

now I realise what it all meant.

[Guest guest]

Blessed Self, arghyajyoti<br><br>Your post on the

Sri Ramakrishna incidents illustrate beautifully how

one should not look for consistency in the words of a

guru without first knowing the circumstances and then

interpreting them. The Guru knows His words can only guide the

aspirant and cannot define Truth. So, the Guru will say

apparently contradictory things to different people because

He is dealing with different situations.<br><br>In

the first incident, Sri Ramakrishna could have been

telling the aspirant that he should not have restrained

himself (and so cut himself off from his guru and from

Brahman). And that he should not be listening to

negativity. I notice that the story does not say Sri

Ramakrishna counselled his disciple to challenge the views of

those who were speaking ill of him. He only asked the

disciple not to coolly listen but to react. Perhaps by

leaving? Perhaps by having compassion for those poor souls

who were mired in negativity? Perhaps by silently

reaffirming his connection to the teachings of Sri

Ramakrishna? Calmly correcting the errors they were making is

only one option and only the person at the scene can

make the determination if the conditions are right for

intercession.<br><br>In the second incident, Sri Ramakrishna was telling

the disciple that violence and an inability to

control one's emotions and actions against the detractor

was worse than the comments of the detractor. The

actions of the disciple were unworthy of the disciple as

well as being unworthy of the disciple's professed

love of his guru. Those actions were disrespectful of

the guru. In addition, the disciple was assuming

responsibility for the guru - a responsibility that the guru had

not conferred.<br><br>In both incidents, despite the

apparent contradictions, Sri Ramakrishna was giving the

same message. He was urging his disciples to practice

viveka - discrimination, vairagya - detachment, shama -

eradication of desire, dama - restraint of the external

organs and titiksha - patience and equinimity under

stress. <br><br>Om namah Sivaya<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

The way I understood from the two incidents

regarding Sri Ramakrishna's disciples is:<br><br>1.

Religion being a practical subject is very prescriptive.

One man's meat is another man's poison. The world is

often compaired with a gymnasium, where individuals

exercise themselves to achieve prefection.<br>In the first

case, reacting to the slandering would have been most

suited for the subject concerned because he might have

been introvert in nature. But in the second case the

person was aggressive thus he needed to tone done his

aggression. For both disciples need to achieve perfection

relative to the inherent tendencies in the individual. One

had to become more active and the other more passive

to come to the required middle point.<br><br>2. Dont

try to correct the world because it is beyond the

powers of any individual. The world is moving with the

divine plan. We can only start and fret, even our

actions are as per divine plan. This is what we should

keep in mind. If the Almighty wanted a perfect world

his mere wish would have been enough, he wouldnt need

our help.<br>In this regard let me tell you of an

incident in Swami Vivekananda's life. Once while roaming

India, as required of a sanyassi, he came to a Devi

temple cave that had been ransacked by the muslims

during their conquest. He was sad and thought had he

been there at that time he would have laid down his

life to save the temple. Soon he fell asleep and

dreamt the Devi saying "Do I protect you or do you

protect me?" Things became crystal clear to

Swamiji.<br><br>SARANAGATI is the bottom line !!