Desire

[Guest guest]

A question arose again and again during various

conversations today. Desire. <br><br>What is Desire? To me, it

is the wanting of something that we feel we don't

have. <br><br>So, if Self-Realization is the

realization and establishment in the knowledge that one is

the Absolute, which is complete, whole and ONE, then

how can a Self-Realized individual have any Desire?

What can they Desire if they already have all; in

fact, they ARE all. How can they Desire even name, fame

or popularity. <br><br>Self-Realized Masters may

make themselves available for those who are ready to

learn, but when one knows that all is well and in sync

with the plans of the universe, then I don't see how

they can be eager to propagate, teach, or preach.<br>

<br>Any thoughts on this? What am I missing

here?<br><br>_/\_ Tat twam asi<br><br>Uma

[Guest guest]

Uma...<br><br>This is a great topic. Thank you

for bringing it up.<br><br>The subject of desire can

be quite confusing to "newbies" like myself. On one

hand, one must have the desire to discover something

greater than oneself before he/she ever starts any sort

of sadhna. However, once we "get started" we are

told that desire is not condusive to a spiritual path

and that one of the goals of a spiritual life is to

be free from desire. <br><br>To me, it seems we must

have a certain amount of desire inside of ourselves:

something that "keeps us going". If we don't have any

desire for God-realization, will we keep progressing? I

don't think so.<br><br>What do you all

think?<br><br>With much love,<br>Erica

[Guest guest]

Uma -<br><br>A psalm in the bible says to delight

yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of

your heart.<br><br>To me, to delight in the Lord, is

to sing out the many names of God, and when you do

that, you have no other desires. Now what I have seen

happen in my case is that the Lord gives me the desires

He wants me to have - then as i follow the desire

with prayer, he litterally gives me the

desire!<br><br>God gave me the desire to see that all are saved

-Christian fundementalism, right. Then it was followed up

with years of prayer and praise to that accord...Then

he opened my eyes and showed me that all are saved!

He/she is in all. [Fundieism gone ] -

<br><br>>>>>>Absolute, which is complete, whole and ONE, then how

can a

Self-Realized individual have any

Desire?<<<<<<br><br>The Lord gives us the desires of the Heart.

Wait upon

the Lord and you will receive His/Her Desire, not

that of your own making because it is not

there.<br><br>vicki

[Guest guest]

>>>Absolute, which is complete, whole

and ONE, then how can a Self-Realized individual have

any Desire?<<<<br><br>I think that (just me

here) one has to be patient and wait for doors to open

in order to propagate, teach or preach. I dont

consider myself a master although I have attained Oneness

and total trust in God. To me, and here I may be

wrong, but a self-realized "master" should also

understand and see more of the spiritual message of all the

other sacred writing as well as their own.<br><br>So,

maybe, just maybe, some of the self-realized are not

called to teach or preach but just to see, know, and

trust that what they see will be true for everyone one

day.<br><br>vicki

[Guest guest]

My desire for all to realize oneness in God, each

other and all is so strong that I have just been really

battered in a christian club. When the flesh gets ahead of

God, we can step into piles of doo! But atleast I got

some food for thought in there <br><br>vicki

[Guest guest]

>>To me, it seems we must have a certain

amount of desire inside of ourselves: something that

"keeps us going". If we don't have any desire for

God-realization, will we keep progressing? <<<br><br>Firstly

I would like to point out the difference between

desire and nature, by illustrating an example given by

Ramana Maharshi. If we have a headache, we try to get

rid of it. Why ? B'cos being without headache is our

nature. (Getting rid of the headache is not our desire,

but our nature). Similarly our true nature, is

freedom and Divinity, but in this small 5.5 feet body we

are bound, and not free. Our Divine nature is also

not conspicuous. Since , this is not our true nature,

we want to get back our inherent freedom by trying

to realise the Self / God. <br><br>Hence, I wish to

say that wanting to realise the Self/ God is NOT our

desire but our nature. It is an inherent quality, and

forms our instinct which drives us, just like how a

neonatal is NOT taught how to swallow. <br><br>In the

Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says :<br>Arjuna said:— Impelled by

what, does man commit sin, much against his wishes, O

Varshneya, compelled as it were, by force? Gita Ch: III-36.

<br><br>The Blessed Lord said:— It is desire, it is anger

born of the Rajo-Guna, all devouring, all sinful; know

this as the foe here (in this world). Gita Ch. III-37.

<br><br>Desire sows the seeds for commiting sins. Hence, desires

of all kinds should be shunned. <br><br>Yeah, it's

not as easy as it sounds, but let's all join hands

and help each other to shun all desires of any / all

kinds whatsoever. <br><br>Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

For all of us, the center of consciousness is in

the spiritual heart, ie finite. When the

consciousness shifts from the finite to the infinite, a person

becomes a Self-realised Master.

<br><br>>>Self-Realized Masters may make themselves available for those

who are ready to learn, but when one knows that all

is well and in sync with the plans of the universe,

then I don't see how they can be eager to propagate,

teach, or preach.<br><br>Any thoughts on this? What am I

missing here?<<<br><br>Let's consider the finite

eg, ie our body. Our consciousness pervades every

inch of our body , from head to toe. We immediately

know when any part is pricked, even if we cannot see

the part, eg back of neck, thus proving that our

consciousness pervades all over. <br><br>when one part is hurt,

(let's say our big toe) and is eager to recover, won't

the hands help it, by applying ointments etc. ? The

hands do not do it, b'cos they'll get name or fame. The

hand helps b'cos everything is in sync with the plans

of the universe, and the plan is that the toe should

heal with the help of the hand.<br><br>Similarly this

world is a huge stadium where God plays. It is He who

made the innumerable individual consciousnesses and

covered them all with dirty cloaks called, mind, ego and

intellect. It is also part of His game, to uncover the

cloaks with the help of a Master. The Game ends, when

all the cloaks of all the consciousness have been

uncovered, and all have merged back into the ONE. <br>Of

course, when the game ends, another fresh game'll start

:-)<br><br>Happy Playing :-)<br><br>Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

So what you are saying is that nature is

different from desire. OK. How then does one distinguish

between nature and desire? Is the desire for wanting

anything else other than Divinity any less than "nature"?

What about those who aren't ready for the ultimate?

What about the young people who want to do well in

school, find a good partner for their journey and go to

good colleges to pursue a good profession?

<br><br>>>when one part is hurt, (let's say our big toe) and is

eager to recover, won't the hands help it, by applying

ointments etc.? The hands do not do it, b'cos they'll get

name or fame. The hand helps b'cos everything is in

sync with the plans of the universe, and the plan is

that the toe should heal with the help of the

hand.>> <br><br>So when assistance is needed, a realized

soul, in form is sent to assist. No fanfare, no horns,

no cheers. The "hand" should not expect or accept or

encourage any cheering .. should it? <br><br>>>Of

course, when the game ends, another fresh game'll start

:-)>><br><br>If we play one game to start off again, then why

bother playing at all. I'm not competitive and I not

into sports. <br><br>Only curious ... What happens to

me? <br><br><br><br>_/\_ Tat twam asi<br><br>Uma

[Guest guest]

SVCS...thank you for your input...it is of much

value to me as usual <br><br>I would also like to

know how we can tell the difference between nature and

desire. I feel the need to know God, and thus I interpret

the feeling as desire. The feeling that I have could

be called "nature" or still "desire", could it not?

Or am I just splitting hairs?<br><br>Another example

to chew on: consider an overweight person. The

person goes on a diet. No weight is lost, no matter what

the person does. Is the person desiring to lose

weight or is the desire to get back to his/her natural

state or are there other things going on? Should the

person just accept things as they are and move on? Maybe

it is his/her nature to be overweight.<br><br>With

much love,<br>Erica

[Guest guest]

>>How then does one distinguish between

nature and desire?<<<br><br>Nature and desire are

talked of in 2 different realms. 'nature is confined to

spirituality. In our spiritual path, we want to realise God

b'cos that's our 'nature'. On the contrary, the term

desire is used for worldly things (like money, name,

fame etc). Anything that is wanted and is NOT the Self

is desired. Anything that is wanted and IS the Self

is 'nature'.<br>The distinction can be made thro'

Vairagya (dispassion) or by the process of discrimination

called 'Neti Neti' or 'Not this, Not this'. (my next

post is on what Ramana Maharshi said about

Vairagya.)<br> <br>>>What about the young people who want

to do well in school, find a good partner for their

journey and go to good colleges to pursue a good

profession? <<<br><br>This Earth is called 'Karma

Bhoomi', or a place where all karma is made / done

/acquired. On the contrary, in heaven or hell, one enjoys or

suffers for the karma done on Earth.<br>As long as one

lives on Earth, one cannot escape the inescapble law of

Karma. Even if one is a Self-Realised Sage, one has to

carry out basic karmas or actions like brushing teeth,

taking a shower, eating food etc. One cannot abstain

from doing nothing. Karma has to be done for

sustenance. Similarly one has to earn for a living to sustain

this life. But work must be considered as worship, and

no room should be given for desires, as desires pave

the way for wanton feelings like jealousy, pride,

greed, hatred, anger etc. <br>One must work without

thinking of the fruits. One must remember 'do your best,

God will do the rest'. If whatever one gains thro'

hardwork, is surrendered to the Lord, the mind and the ego

get cleansed.<br><br>>>Another example to chew

on: consider an overweight person.

<<<br><br>How did the person become overweight in the first

place ? Is it not b'cos of his desire to

overeat?<br><br>Why does he/she want to lose weight ? B'cos of the

desire to :<br>a. to look good and/ or<br>b. to move

around easily and / or<br>c. to reduce the risk of heart

disease.<br><br>If one is not able to lose weight, then one must NOT

accept things as they are, but must doubt one's own

sincerity.<br><br>Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Maharshi: external contacts - contacts with

objects other than itself - make the mind restless. Loss

of interest in the not-Self (vairagya) is the first

step. Then the habits of introspection and

concentration follow, ending in samadhi. <br><br>Note . Cleave

to the world and you are lost to the Self, at least

for the period of your cleaving. Cleave to the Self

and you are lost to the world, rather the world is

lost to you. We cannot hope to see the light if we

stubbornly hold on to the darkness; the one is repugnant to

the other. If we abandon the one we will enjoy ( or

suffer) the other to the full. <br><br> But this may be

misunderstood as advocating the desertion of one's home, wife,

children and other obligations. Nothing is farther from

the truth. This sort of interpretations leads to

perdition, making the bleakness of one's prospects more

bleak. We have seen how Bhagavan discourages escapism,

which is, truly speaking, not vairagya but callous

egotism. Rational seekers do not make this mistake, nor

argue that since the Self is alone real, all family and

domestic encumbrances are mere dream, which need not be

taken seriously. This argument resembles that of the

foolish disciples in the story who dropped their Rishi in

a deep pit to bring his teaching of Maya to

ridicule. They thought, the story goes, he would plead to

take him out of the pit and would thus repudiate Maya.

They called out to him from top of the pit derisively:

" Well Sir, now you can tell us if the world is an

illusion : but please remember where you are '. The Rishi

undaunted feebly answered from the abysmal darkness: ' The

world is illusion, but not this pit", meaning thereby

that although the world is an illusion, the suffering

in the pit is, like the dream suffering, real while

it lasts. So, although the world is the not-Self, an

illusion, the suffering which we inflict upon others, our

family in this case, is genuine and becomes the case of

our own future suffering, for the Self is one. Sri

Krishna, the Self, speaks to Arjuna of the deluded and

arrogant people who cause trouble to others: " These

malignant ones hate Me in the bodies of others and in their

own".<br><br> Bhagavan in this text ask us " to lose interest in the

no-Self", which implies detachment in the performance of

duty, freedom from that clinging passion for the family

and for possessions. Giving up infatuation for the

family is one thing and giving up the family itself is

quite another. Abjuring this passion - which is not the

same as the negative escapism, causes mental calmness.

This is the true significance of vairagya, which can

be attained through the analysis of Vichara.

[Guest guest]

'I desire to be pleasing to my Father''<br>'I

desire to sow the seeds of His Love with the same spirit

He sowed it in my creation'<br>With care and

consideration and deliberation and <br>patience and

conscienceness.<br>Conscious of my actions<br>and with Love.<br>'I desire to

embody all the virtues and goodness and righeousness and

grace and joy and strength of <br>God in all I think

and do and am'<br>That would be the best I can do in

mind body and soul for myself and everybody else

around me.

[Guest guest]

I have a question, which has been bugging me for

a long time. I give up all desires. Desire for

fame, wealth etc. I am not a realised soul. The only

thing left is total surrender to MAA. I do not want

anything. <br><br>Now I wonder at times what am I living

for? Since I do not follow Vedanta or Advaita I do not

seek self-realisation.<br><br>I am at peace. But you

should realise that peace can be very boring. Should I

take Vanaprastha and retire to a secluded place. Why

not take jalasamadhi at Rudraprayag and end it

all?<br><br>Someone may suggest service to humanity. There is

politics and ego clashes in service/religious

organizations and ashrams. Even postings in clubs leads

to ego clashes. I do not want to knowingly or

unknowingly hurt anyone's ego. That is why I have cut off all

contacts with humans except my family.<br><br>My reading

of the books on Hinduism made me understand that I

should give up all desires. The ultimate object is to

give up even the desire for God-realisation.<br>O.K.

Then what?<br><br>Take Sannyasa and become a wandering

monk or wander into the beautiful Himalayas where MAA

lives? Why a wandering monk because even in Ashrams of

Sannyasins there are ego clashes.<br><br>When you progress

in your God-realisation or spirituality the desires

will leave you.<br>By giving up desires you do not

become spiritual. It could be Vairagya or

Virakthi.<br>Vairagya does not give you Jnana

automatically.<br><br>What do you think?<br><br>Jai MAA KAALI !!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste;<br><br> Follow your Bliss<br><br> Love baba

[Guest guest]

I wish I had an answer to your

question.<br>Unfortunately I feel much the same way.<br>The desire that I

still hold onto is my desire to continue knowing

God.<br>Some people meditate to know God,I continue realizing

God by continuing to be interested while Im here,in

the lives of others.<br>we can never know the beauty

of a smile without giving one.<br>we can never know

the Grace of a touch unless we reach out.<br>we can

never know Love unless we show it and give it.<br>God

is like an ocean and us like springs of the same

spirit.<br><br>I have no desire for riches or for fame,etc

etc.<br>But i still have a desire to continue knowing God and

so I still have the desire to reach out and

love.<br>as you said,my friend,there are ego clashes

everywhere,and if you have no ego you will be above it and will

be able to offer them better solutions perhaps to

petty squabbles.<br>Life is to be tasted touched and

experienced.Even though you may not have an ego we are all

connected so you are still being influenced by myself and

others even if not directly.<br>We are in this life

together and we are all only as strong as our weakest

links.<br>Find where your life experience will be enriched

..<br>Im sure there must be something you still have not

accomplished.And if you havent found what it is yet,you

will,<br>have alittle Faith<br>with Love<br>InChrist<br>M