Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Jaya Sri Radhey! GREATNESS OF GURU Guru ko kije bandagi, koti koti paranam ; Kit na jane bhring ko, guru karle ap saman. Offer salutations and obeisance's to Guru millions of times; Just as a wasp takes a worm into its nest and another wasp emerges, just so Guru makes the ordinary disciple as himself. Commentary: One has to offer obeisances to the Guru who takes the disciple on the path to God, and helps him in every way even though the disciple does not know it. The Guru imparts wisdom to him and makes him as knowledgeable as himself. timir gaya ravi dekhate, kumati gayi guru gyan; sumati gayi ati lobhate , bhakti gayi abhiman. Darkness disappears when the sun arises and ignorance goes away by the Guru's wisdom; Good intellect is lost because of greed, and devotion is lost because of EGO. Commentary : Just as sunrise removes darkness from the world, knowledge given by the Guru removes ignorance from the heart of a desciple. Similarly, greed abolishes wisdom, and the EGO becomes an obstacle to devotion and God realization. Hari kirpa tab janiye, de manav awatar; Guru kirpa tab janiye, mukta kare sansar. Know that it is the grace of God which gave you human birth; But it is the grace of the Guru which liberates you from the cycle of birth and death. Commentary : In this human life you can attain salvation; therefore thank God that you got a human life. But you are still a victim of rebirth, therefore thank the Guru whose grace frees you from the cycle of birth and death. This is the greatness of the guru. guru dhobi sis kapada, sabun sirjanhar; surati sila par dhoiye, nikase jyoti apar. Guru is like a washerman and disciple is like cloth; God Himself is the soap; O Guru! Please wash my thought-waves on the stone of meditation, then unlimited light will appear. Commentary : When the Guru gives the gift of God's name to the disciple and the disciple recites it, his heart is cleansed. Thus, with the help and guidance of the Guru, the disciple reaches the destination which is God realization. Guru bin gyan na upaje, guru bin mile na moksh; guru bin lakhe na satyako, guru bin mite na dosh. Without the Guru no one obtains spiritual knowledge or achives salvation; Without the Guru no one can see Truth or have his doubts removed. Commentary : Importance of the Guru is mentioned in this sakhi. To achieve the higher stages on the spiritual path, and to succeed in the world, one needs guidance of the Guru all the time to overcome obstacles on the spiritual path. guru bichara kya kare, sikkhahi mahi chuk; bhawe tyon parbodhiye, bans bajaye phunk. What can the poor Guru do if the disciple has faults; He gives knowledge but it becomes useless, just as a broken flute does not produce music. Commentary : The disciple must have faith, courage, and patience on the path of God. He must try to accept discriminative spiritual knowledge from the Guru and keep it in his mind. If he does not, the Guru cannot be blamed, because the Guru can only guide, but the disciple has to walk himself. ek shabda guru dev ka, taka anant bichar; thake muni jan pandita, veda na pawe par. The one word of Sat Guru gives limitless meanings; Munis and pandits became exhausted trying to find its meaning. Vedas cannot fathom its depth. Commentary : The word of God given by Sat Guru is unfathomable. Only a humble devotee can get it. Munis and pandits, full of ego of their knowledge, cannot find it. Even the Vedas mention very little about it. Source: http://www.freezone.co.uk/kabir/ks3.htm ********************************************** THE MASTER IS THE HIGHEST TYPE OF MAN, WHEN JUDGED AS MAN. IN HIM ALL THE VIRTUES RECONIZED BY THE WORLD ARE CARRIED TO THE HIGEST DEGREE OF PERFECTION. MASTER STANDS ALONE, IS A LAW UNTO HIMSELF, DOES WHAT HE PLEASES, HAS WHAT HE WANTS, COMES AND GOES ABSOLUTELY AT HIS OWN WILL, AND ASKS FAVORS OF NO ONE. HE HAS ALL THINGS AT HIS OWN COMMAND. IF HE SUFFERS HARDSHIPS OR INCOVENIENCES, THAT IS BECAUSE HE CHOOSES TO DO SO FOR SOME PURPOSE. HE IS A SUPREME GIVER, NOT A RECIEVER. HE IS THE CITIZEN OF THE WORLD. HIS TEACHINGS ARE UINVERSAL. HE BELONGS TO NO RACE OR TIME, BUT TO ALL NATIONS AND ALL TIMES. HE IS A FRIENDLY VISITOR IN THIS WORLD AND IS THE AMBASSODOR PLENIPOTENTIARY OF KING OF KINGS. THE MASTER LIVES IN THE WORLD THOUGH HE IS NOT OF IT. HE ENTERS THE STREAM OF HUMAN LIFE TO HELP OTHERS, YET HE HIMSELF STANDS ALOOK FROM THE WAVES OF HUMAN PASSION. HE HAS UNLIMITED POWERS; YET HE COMBINES WITH STRENGTH THE NOBLEST VIRTUES OF HUMBLE AND THE GENTLE. ALL PEOPLE FIND IN HIM INSPIRATION FOR BUILDING OF NOBLE CHARACTER. AT THE SAME TIME HE IS EQUALLY THE IDEAL FOR THE WARRIOR GOING FORTH TO DEFEND HIS COUNTRY. HE IS THE IDEAL OF POETICAL SONG, THE GENUINE ROMANTIC CHARACTER OF ALL IDEALISTS. HE IS THE STRONG MAN WITH WITH NO WEAKNESS, THE GOOD MAN WITH NO FAULTS. HIS SYSTEM IS NOT A RELIGION, YET IT LEADS TO THE MOST COMPLETE RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCES, THE MOST HAPPY. Jaya Sri Radhey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Welcome again Omprem ji to this world of full of chaos, uncertainity and confusions ) and tks for the msg on gurus. In today's world, you will agree, finding a true guru is almost impossible. we find fakes, high will-powered(but low on morality) teachers, we find Media-made gurus and cheats...of course there are some very genuine and learned persons too but rare to find. I wonder if there are some qualities, we should first monitor in a guru, before making him our guide. Are there some general outwardly signs, which can indicate that the person is fit to be a guru to us. Hari Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Welcome, indeed, Silentsoulji! I am very happy to see and feel your presence here in our club...errr, group. Hopefully you will stick around and contribute to our wonderful discussions. With love, Erica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 Om SilentSoul It is very good to hear from you again. Rather than me talk about gurus and choosing gurus, I'm going to yield the page to Swami Sivananda. from Bliss Divine Swami Sivananda writes: "To be a Guru, one must have a command from God." "A Guru is absolutely necessary for every aspirant in the spiritual path." "A word from him [Guru] is a word from God. He need not teach anything. Even his presence or company is elevating, inspiring, and stirring. His very company is self-illumination. Living in his company is spiritual education. Read the Granth-saleb. You will come to know the greatness of the Guru." "How to choose your Guru "If you find peace in the presence of a Mahatma, if you are inspired by his speeches, if he is able to clear your doubts, if he is free from greed, anger, and lust, if he is selfless, loving, and I-ness, you can take him as your Guru. He who is able to clear your doubts, he who is sympathetic in your Sadhana, he who does not disturb your beliefs but helps you on from where you are, he in whose very presence you fell spiritually elevated - he is your Guru. Once you choose your Guru, implicitly follow him. God will guide you through the Guru. "Do not use your reason too much in the selection of your Guru. You will fail if you do so. If you fail to get a first-class Guru, try to follow the instructions of the Sadhu who is treading the path for some years, who has purity and other virtuous qualities, and who has some knowledge of the scriptures. "If you are not able to find out even this second-class type of Guru, you can follow the teachings contained in the books written by realised saints like Sri Sankara, Dattatreya and others. You can keep a photo of such a realised Guru, if available, and worship the same with faith and devotion. Gradually you will get inspiration, and the Guru may appear in a dream and initiate and inspire you at the proper time. For a sincere Sadhak, help comes in a mysterious manner. When the time is ripe, the Guru and the disciple are brought together by the Lord in a mysterious way." Swami Sivananda also had this to say about choosing Gurus: "Competent disciples are never in want of a competent Guru. Realised souls are not rare. Ordinary ignorant-minded persons cannot easily recognise them. Only a few persons, who are pure and embodiments of all virtuous qualities, can understand realised souls, and they only will be benefited in their company. "Some teachers mislead their aspirants. They say unto all: "Think for yourself. Do not surrender yourself to any Guru". When one says, "Do not follow any Guru!", he intends to be the listeners' Guru himself. Do not approach such pseudo-Gurus. Do not hear their lectures." So, if you take the opposite of what Swami Sivananda says defines a Guru, you have a fake Guru. Jaya Guru Omprem , "silentsoul_55" <silentsoul_55> wrote: > Welcome again Omprem ji to this world of full of chaos, > uncertainity and confusions ) and tks for the msg on gurus. > > In today's world, you will agree, finding a true guru is almost > impossible. we find fakes, high will-powered(but low on morality) > teachers, we find Media-made gurus and cheats...of course there are > some very genuine and learned persons too but rare to find. > > I wonder if there are some qualities, we should first monitor in a > guru, before making him our guide. Are there some general outwardly > signs, which can indicate that the person is fit to be a guru to us. > > > > Hari Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 Om SilentSoul In answering your query about how to identity a fake or fallen Guru, I did a Google search on 'cult characteristics'. After eliminating the Fundamentalist Christian websites, whose agenda is to discredit Eastern forms of community and worship, I came with these entries: 1. COMMONLY AGREED CHARACTERISTICS OF A CULT Below is what Dr. Lowell Streiker, a pre-eminent and renowned expert on cults, found to be the general characteristics of a cult. - A cult is a nontraditional religious group based upon the teaching of an authoritarian leader. - A cult is a highly structured, strictly disciplined group which demands the total time, dedication and resources of its members. - A cult sees itself as the only possessor of truth and sees those outside the cult as enemies. - Cult initiation techniques are frequently based upon deception and psychological coercion. - Money is often obtained under false pretenses. - Members of cults are encouraged to cut off communications with family members and friends. - Cultists allow the cult leader to make important decisions concerning career and marriage for them. In many instances, cult members give their possessions and earnings to the group and, in turn, are totally dependent on the group. - Most cults encourage systematic forms of consciousness altering practices which make individuals amenable to group direction rather than self-determination. 2. EVERY CULT CAN BE DEFINED AS A GROUP HAVING ALL OF THE FOLLOWING 5 CHARACTERISTICS 1. It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members 2. It forms an elitist totalitarian society 3. Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma 4. It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds and recruit people 5. Its wealth does not benefit its members or society These 2 groups of definitions have a US bias and do not understand the concept of Guru. They could be debated endlessly but they do point out some truths: the leader claims only his way works, there is a focus on money and recruitment, independent inquiry is discouraged, outside contact is discouraged. So, I would say the best way to spot a fake or fallen Guru is through extended observation and asking oneself, " Does his or her actions reflect their words and the words in the scriptures? Does the Guru encourage openness? Does the Guru exude true humility? Is he or she overly interested in money or power? Jaya Guru Omprem , omprem <no_reply> wrote: > Om SilentSoul > > It is very good to hear from you again. > > Rather than me talk about gurus and choosing gurus, I'm going > to yield the page to Swami Sivananda. > > from Bliss Divine Swami Sivananda writes: > > "To be a Guru, one must have a command from God." > > "A Guru is absolutely necessary for every aspirant in the spiritual > path." > > "A word from him [Guru] is a word from God. He need not teach > anything. Even his presence or company is elevating, inspiring, > and stirring. His very company is self-illumination. Living in his > company is spiritual education. Read the Granth-saleb. You will > come to know the greatness of the Guru." > > "How to choose your Guru > > "If you find peace in the presence of a Mahatma, if you are > inspired by his speeches, if he is able to clear your doubts, if he > is free from greed, anger, and lust, if he is selfless, loving, and > I-ness, you can take him as your Guru. He who is able to clear > your doubts, he who is sympathetic in your Sadhana, he who > does not disturb your beliefs but helps you on from where you > are, he in whose very presence you fell spiritually elevated - he is > your Guru. Once you choose your Guru, implicitly follow him. God > will guide you through the Guru. > > "Do not use your reason too much in the selection of your Guru. > You will fail if you do so. If you fail to get a first-class Guru, try to= > follow the instructions of the Sadhu who is treading the path for > some years, who has purity and other virtuous qualities, and > who has some knowledge of the scriptures. > > "If you are not able to find out even this second-class type of > Guru, you can follow the teachings contained in the books written > by realised saints like Sri Sankara, Dattatreya and others. You > can keep a photo of such a realised Guru, if available, and > worship the same with faith and devotion. Gradually you will get > inspiration, and the Guru may appear in a dream and initiate and > inspire you at the proper time. For a sincere Sadhak, help comes > in a mysterious manner. When the time is ripe, the Guru and the > disciple are brought together by the Lord in a mysterious way." > > Swami Sivananda also had this to say about choosing Gurus: > > "Competent disciples are never in want of a competent Guru. > Realised souls are not rare. Ordinary ignorant-minded persons > cannot easily recognise them. Only a few persons, who are pure > and embodiments of all virtuous qualities, can understand > realised souls, and they only will be benefited in their company. > > "Some teachers mislead their aspirants. They say unto all: > "Think for yourself. Do not surrender yourself to any Guru". When > one says, "Do not follow any Guru!", he intends to be the > listeners' Guru himself. Do not approach such pseudo-Gurus. > Do not hear their lectures." > > So, if you take the opposite of what Swami Sivananda says > defines a Guru, you have a fake Guru. > > Jaya Guru > > Omprem > > > , "silentsoul_55" <silentsoul_55> wrote: > > Welcome again Omprem ji to this world of full of > chaos, > > uncertainity and confusions ) and tks for the msg on gurus. > > > > In today's world, you will agree, finding a true guru is almost > > impossible. we find fakes, high will-powered(but low on > morality) > > teachers, we find Media-made gurus and cheats...of course > there are > > some very genuine and learned persons too but rare to find. > > > > I wonder if there are some qualities, we should first monitor > in a > > guru, before making him our guide. Are there some general > outwardly > > signs, which can indicate that the person is fit to be a guru to > us. > > > > > > > > Hari Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.