Guest guest Posted March 12, 2002 Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Tks respected Omprem and Sankarukku jee for the beautiful posts... OMprem since you had a chance to get a Great Soul as your guru, perhaps that was the reason i asked you, how to recognise higher souls/gurus. I am personally of the view that a great soul accepts to be our guru only when we show some progress on spiritual path. In my opinion gurus do not waste time on wordly people, doing nothing but desiring all.... I feel it is our spiritual awakening and the power of it, which attracts our guru to come to us and guide us further...till then we have to work hard. How far my assumption is right ?? Hari Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2002 Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Om Silentsoul Ji Your assumptions on Gurus are correct. Many people know other people who are Gurus, but not many know these same people as Gurus. The Guru will make His/Her Divine Presence known only to those people who have already done some work on themselves and attained some spiritual sensibility. The Guru will not become involved with those who have mere surface familiarity with some scriptures and some acquaintance with Sanskrit terminology without understanding the metaphysics behind the terminology, particularly those who bandy such dried knowledge about. The Guru will demonstrate siddhis to those whom He/She wishes to reach. This can occur in the midst of a crowd without others being aware of the demonstration. The siddhis will be used to enlighten the aspirant or to lighten their load. They will not be used for self-glorification of the Guru. The Guru can give shaktipat to individual aspirants in a crowded room without others being aware of what is occurring. The Guru could simply radiate Love and see who responds. I will relate one story. Once my Guru came to Ottawa. He was quite ill and arrived lying on a gurney. We lifted He and the gurney up several flights of stairs to where satsanga was being held. One of His disciples lead the satsang. The Guru lay unmoving and silent on the gurney during the entire satsang. I brought a friend to the satsang who did not practice Yoga or meditation but who nevertheless was a Sattvic person following a western path. There was no apparent communication between her and the Guru but after the satsang she was in awe of the Guru because of the Cosmic Love that He radiated out to her. That is a small example of the power of the Guru. There is nothing intellectual or emotional about devotion to Guru, there is only Divine Grace enfolding the somewhat evolved aspirant. Om namah Sivaya Omprem , "silentsoul_55" <silentsoul_55> wrote: > Tks respected Omprem and Sankarukku jee for the beautiful posts... > OMprem since you had a chance to get a Great Soul as your guru, > perhaps that was the reason i asked you, how to recognise higher > souls/gurus. > > I am personally of the view that a great soul accepts to be our > guru only when we show some progress on spiritual path. In my > opinion gurus do not waste time on wordly people, doing nothing but > desiring all.... I feel it is our spiritual awakening and the power > of it, which attracts our guru to come to us and guide us > further...till then we have to work hard. > > How far my assumption is right ?? > > Hari Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2002 Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Hello to everyone and Namashkar! I have always hesitated to post anything in this club because all postings are so well written from so learned people.whenever I attempted to post anything, I worked on it as if it were for my school examinations lol. However last saturday I met the kind Tattwamasi in the club chat and was motivated to write something. I saw that you have been discussing a subject that had occupied and even tortured my mind in the past. The guru! I believe that somehow our background influences our opinion on this subject without most people really reasoning whether a guru is neccesary or not and what is really hidden behind this ancient tradition. So my opinion on this and my conclusions are also so much influenced by my background, my upbringing and the way I interpreted all these. Because in the field of philosophy or religion it is very easy for anyone to create his own interpretations... and this might be the main cause of the misunderstandings and confusion that people like me get into, when they try to approach the path to the divine. GURU=he who dispells darkness (spiritual ignorance)! I was taught since young age that a guru is necessary in order to walk the spiritual path. He imparts the key to upliftment through initiation and takes care of the disciple's soul in a karmic way and in the astral realm. He must also be living in the physical world, however his role is more of an inner guide. I thought ok... I can find meditation techniques also in books but then I was told that the guru loads the mantra given with his pranic power and it would bring results much faster than using a mantra from a book. I was told that it is not advisable to meditate without a guru, and that it is actually dangerous. Intense concentration (dhyan) on the gurus astral or radiant form makes the soul get attracted to the gurus spiritual height and finally merge in him (thus in the supreme soul). However when I asked initiation i was not accepted due to young age..!!?? (15). So my frustration led me to search about other paths and other gurus. Firstly, I was confronted with a totally different view on gurus. In one school of yoga they asked me to accept a dead guru as my eternal satguru. Other gurus that I met didnt mention anything about inner guidance. And finally I met people who meditated alone and had made progress just through their dedicated meditations. I still have not reached a conclusion on this. I can only say that mantra chanting has not harmed me in anyway yet LOL, and I find it beneficial even without a guru. And who really in this world has merged into the supreme soul? Are only such souls allowed to offer guidance or any spiritually advanced person? How can we really see and test the spiritual height and worth of a guru or a person unless we also stand in the same level? The way I see it,the criteria related to choosing a guru should be based on witnessing and experiencing the spiritual level. Being educated or not is not really important and relying on mere writings is not first hand knowledge. Isnt this a dead end? Finally I think that one can only trust his intuition on a choice of guru, if it is at all neccesary. I am looking forward to your comments. best wishes Angelina , omprem <no_reply> wrote: > Om Silentsoul Ji > > Your assumptions on Gurus are correct. > > Many people know other people who are Gurus, but not many > know these same people as Gurus. > > The Guru will make His/Her Divine Presence known only to > those people who have already done some work on themselves > and attained some spiritual sensibility. The Guru will not > become involved with those who have mere surface familiarity > with some scriptures and some acquaintance with Sanskrit > terminology without understanding the metaphysics behind the > terminology, particularly those who bandy such dried knowledge > about. > > The Guru will demonstrate siddhis to those whom He/She > wishes to reach. This can occur in the midst of a crowd without > others being aware of the demonstration. The siddhis will be > used to enlighten the aspirant or to lighten their load. They will > not be used for self-glorification of the Guru. > > The Guru can give shaktipat to individual aspirants in a crowded > room without others being aware of what is occurring. > > The Guru could simply radiate Love and see who responds. > > I will relate one story. Once my Guru came to Ottawa. He was > quite ill and arrived lying on a gurney. We lifted He and the > gurney up several flights of stairs to where satsanga was being > held. One of His disciples lead the satsang. The Guru lay > unmoving and silent on the gurney during the entire satsang. I > brought a friend to the satsang who did not practice Yoga or > meditation but who nevertheless was a Sattvic person following > a western path. There was no apparent communication between > her and the Guru but after the satsang she was in awe of the > Guru because of the Cosmic Love that He radiated out to her. > > That is a small example of the power of the Guru. There is > nothing intellectual or emotional about devotion to Guru, there is > only Divine Grace enfolding the somewhat evolved aspirant. > > Om namah Sivaya > > Omprem > > , "silentsoul_55" <silentsoul_55> wrote: > > Tks respected Omprem and Sankarukku jee for the beautiful > posts... > > OMprem since you had a chance to get a Great Soul as your > guru, > > perhaps that was the reason i asked you, how to recognise > higher > > souls/gurus. > > > > I am personally of the view that a great soul accepts to be our > > guru only when we show some progress on spiritual path. In > my > > opinion gurus do not waste time on wordly people, doing > nothing but > > desiring all.... I feel it is our spiritual awakening and the power > > of it, which attracts our guru to come to us and guide us > > further...till then we have to work hard. > > > > How far my assumption is right ?? > > > > Hari Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2002 Report Share Posted March 13, 2002 >>Finally I think that one can only trust his intuition on a choice of guru, if it is at all neccesary.<< Well said, Angelina. Ramana Maharshi said the following when a devotee asks him whether a Guru is necessary. Sri Ramana Maharshi: That is true. The world contains many great men. Look upon him as your Guru with whom your mind gets attuned. The one in whom you have faith is your Guru. Hari Aum !!! , de_spell_2000 <no_reply> wrote: > Hello to everyone and Namashkar! > > I have always hesitated to post anything in this club because all > postings are so well written from so learned people.whenever I > attempted to post anything, I worked on it as if it were for my > school examinations lol. However last saturday I met the kind > Tattwamasi in the club chat and was motivated to write something. I > saw that you have been discussing a subject that had occupied and > even tortured my mind in the past. The guru! I believe that somehow > our background influences our opinion on this subject without most > people really reasoning whether a guru is neccesary or not and what > is really hidden behind this ancient tradition. So my opinion on this > and my conclusions are also so much influenced by my background, my > upbringing and the way I interpreted all these. Because in the field > of philosophy or religion it is very easy for anyone to create his > own interpretations... and this might be the main cause of the > misunderstandings and confusion that people like me get into, when > they try to approach the path to the divine. > > GURU=he who dispells darkness (spiritual ignorance)! > I was taught since young age that a guru is necessary in order to > walk the spiritual path. He imparts the key to upliftment through > initiation and takes care of the disciple's soul in a karmic way and > in the astral realm. He must also be living in the physical world, > however his role is more of an inner guide. I thought ok... I can > find meditation techniques also in books but then I was told that the > guru loads the mantra given with his pranic power and it would bring > results much faster than using a mantra from a book. I was told that > it is not advisable to meditate without a guru, and that it is > actually dangerous. Intense concentration (dhyan) on the gurus astral > or radiant form makes the soul get attracted to the gurus spiritual > height and finally merge in him (thus in the supreme soul). However > when I asked initiation i was not accepted due to young age..!!?? > (15). So my frustration led me to search about other paths and other > gurus. Firstly, I was confronted with a totally different view on > gurus. In one school of yoga they asked me to accept a dead guru as > my eternal satguru. Other gurus that I met didnt mention anything > about inner guidance. And finally I met people who meditated alone > and had made progress just through their dedicated meditations. I > still have not reached a conclusion on this. I can only say that > mantra chanting has not harmed me in anyway yet LOL, and I find it > beneficial even without a guru. And who really in this world has > merged into the supreme soul? Are only such souls allowed to offer > guidance or any spiritually advanced person? How can we really see > and test the spiritual height and worth of a guru or a person unless > we also stand in the same level? The way I see it,the criteria > related to choosing a guru should be based on witnessing and > experiencing the spiritual level. Being educated or not is not really > important and relying on mere writings is not first hand knowledge. > Isnt this a dead end? Finally I think that one can only trust his > intuition on a choice of guru, if it is at all neccesary. > > I am looking forward to your comments. > best wishes > Angelina > > , omprem <no_reply> wrote: > > Om Silentsoul Ji > > > > Your assumptions on Gurus are correct. > > > > Many people know other people who are Gurus, but not many > > know these same people as Gurus. > > > > The Guru will make His/Her Divine Presence known only to > > those people who have already done some work on themselves > > and attained some spiritual sensibility. The Guru will not > > become involved with those who have mere surface familiarity > > with some scriptures and some acquaintance with Sanskrit > > terminology without understanding the metaphysics behind the > > terminology, particularly those who bandy such dried knowledge > > about. > > > > The Guru will demonstrate siddhis to those whom He/She > > wishes to reach. This can occur in the midst of a crowd without > > others being aware of the demonstration. The siddhis will be > > used to enlighten the aspirant or to lighten their load. They will > > not be used for self-glorification of the Guru. > > > > The Guru can give shaktipat to individual aspirants in a crowded > > room without others being aware of what is occurring. > > > > The Guru could simply radiate Love and see who responds. > > > > I will relate one story. Once my Guru came to Ottawa. He was > > quite ill and arrived lying on a gurney. We lifted He and the > > gurney up several flights of stairs to where satsanga was being > > held. One of His disciples lead the satsang. The Guru lay > > unmoving and silent on the gurney during the entire satsang. I > > brought a friend to the satsang who did not practice Yoga or > > meditation but who nevertheless was a Sattvic person following > > a western path. There was no apparent communication between > > her and the Guru but after the satsang she was in awe of the > > Guru because of the Cosmic Love that He radiated out to her. > > > > That is a small example of the power of the Guru. There is > > nothing intellectual or emotional about devotion to Guru, there is > > only Divine Grace enfolding the somewhat evolved aspirant. > > > > Om namah Sivaya > > > > Omprem > > > > , "silentsoul_55" <silentsoul_55> wrote: > > > Tks respected Omprem and Sankarukku jee for the beautiful > > posts... > > > OMprem since you had a chance to get a Great Soul as your > > guru, > > > perhaps that was the reason i asked you, how to recognise > > higher > > > souls/gurus. > > > > > > I am personally of the view that a great soul accepts to be our > > > guru only when we show some progress on spiritual path. In > > my > > > opinion gurus do not waste time on wordly people, doing > > nothing but > > > desiring all.... I feel it is our spiritual awakening and the > power > > > of it, which attracts our guru to come to us and guide us > > > further...till then we have to work hard. > > > > > > How far my assumption is right ?? > > > > > > Hari Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2002 Report Share Posted March 13, 2002 One important point we need to remember in this discussion here, is that each individual reaches out at their level of consciouness. That is, everyone may not be ready for the same thing at the same time. One may very well be at the level of fulfilling basic material desires, in fact even those that hurt other people. They are likely to ultimately evolve out of that to desires which, though material and ego centered are sattwic in nature, (Pravritti Marga) that is, they deal with the good of human beings. Once they tire of these they move on Nivritti Marga, or the paths without desire, and finally realize that everything is transient which leads them to their final desire of moksha. It is a process, that we all have to go through, there no escaping it. In fact, we have to go back and forth, according to how we pass through these stages. If I find myself looking for moksha mantras, I still don't have the luxury of complancency, because it is very easy to fall into the laps of ego centered actions and desires again. This is important to understand, as I feel this is one possible reason for commonly perceived separation of spiritual and real life. I have heard so many times, from all age groups, "I don't have time for spirituality, I have to work, earn a living, take care of family!" They feel that if one has desires they cannot be spiritual. This, to me, is incorrect. While one may be incurring karmic debts due to material desires, one is still progressing with spiritual consciouness. Can we deny a school child the pleasure of candy or lolipops, just because one day they will learn that it is not worth it? So, as one of my Gurus have said, "Let them start meditation for losing weight. Once they start to connect with the Divine Intelligence within, they will soon realize its true nature and will be well on the way to the ultimate desire of Moksha." All in good time. To each what they are ready for. The Universe, I noticed, believes in baby steps! _/\_ Tat twam asi Uma ************************************************ This is a reply to post #3393 by de_spell_2000 ************************************************* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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