Hindu Fanatism

[Guest guest]

I hv removed the msg regarding Hindu fanatics. This is not a place

to discuss dirty politics.

 

Those who have to shed tears for "innocent mulsims" ( who baked

alive 55 women and children in Godhra...an incident which sparked

violence in Gujarat)...may chose some other place to do so.

 

Sadhna club is not for Pseudo secular forces..and those who have

to abuse Hinduism in every respect.

 

Next time...such writers will be banned from writing in club

 

Let us continue with our sadhna

 

Hari AUM

[Guest guest]

Thank you for a question that I have been asked again and again. It

is however an important sadhna question and I will repsond to that

aspect only. This is one of my several responces to many public

letters.

 

"The events in Gujarat is painfull indeed. But it need not reduce

people to guilt and shame. No community has a monopoly over fanatical

behavior, and it is time to change any such feelings that

circumstances can't lead to Hindus to be any different.

 

It needs to, however, serve as a wakeup call to all sincere Hindus,

in fact sincere people of the world in general. There is a saying

here "The sqeaky wheel gets the grease!!" ie those who shout the

loudest get the attention. Unfortunately most "good" (this is a

cultural judgement) people go about their own business, do their own

thing, leaving important issues of faith, politics to "those others".

Most so-called educated elite stay out of the process, because the

don't feel represented, few make an attempt to get inviolved to

change the situtation. To top it all, Hindus in particular, have

little overall understanding of their religion except the occasional

rituals, there is no systematic teaching, and those who do get

involved, through the intellectual freedom afforded by the religion,

spend time in debate, arguements, sectarian and divisive talk fueled

by "my way is better than yours" attitude. Religion/spirituality has

been compartmentalized and placed in a separate box; 'when I have

time, when I have nothing else to do I will "do" religion!' Having

given up any responsibility towards the community development in this

field, we then get upset at "those people who are doing henieous

crimes in the name of religion!"

 

"In fact what is amazing to me is that no one seems to notice that

the cry of a human being, everywhere is the same, whether it is one

jumping out of the WTC building, or one who is in a blazing train, or

one in the carnage that followed. In fact, it has remained the same

over time and space, whether it is the cries of those slaughtered by

invaders in the crusades, or butchering of the sikhs and hindus by

marauding invaders, or my clients who cry every night the same cry in

dealing with the abuse by their families. What each one doesn't seem

to understand that such fanatiscm only hurts their own cause, if they

have one at all. What further amazes me is that in spite of this,

people still continue to participate and indulge in divisive and

communal thinking, which in turn feeds the fanatics of the world,

thus sharing responsibility in the lack of unity in the world and its

resulting damage. "

 

I ask our Hindu educated elite, is it time to wake up and reclaim

what the religion truely stands for? And how do we know what it

stands for unless we make a sincere attempt to understand? What is

our responsibility, however small a drop in the water it may be, in

how our community acts or thinks at least with respect to our faith?

News media, among others, express horror at atrocities, at the same

time they taunt and ridicule any attempt at spirituality or genuine

understanding of religion and what mesages it is trying to send to

the aaam junta.

 

Life is a school. The sooner we understand the sooner we will learn.

Otherwise we remain bound to the Karmic wheel fueled by ignorant

desires including those of revenge and hatred. "

 

My personal opinion..

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

[Guest guest]

Thank you for bringing up this topic Uma.

 

What should one do, when one sees a lot of discord,etc around? Should

one just stand aside and watch saying it's all Maya or should one try

and support the side of the Dharma?

 

Before deriving an answer, let's have a look at the beginning of the

war in Kurukshetra. Arjuna saw that his own relatives were standing

opposite him, and he didn't want to fight the war. He threw his

Kandeepam (bow), and pleaded to Krishna. Then did Krishna encourage

him to runaway?

 

No. Krishna instead gave out the nectar called Bhagavad Gita. He said

that this is not a war between relatives, but a war of Dharma against

Adharma. The duty of every kshatriya is to install Dharma whenever

it is threatened by Adharma. The killler and the killed, both are

Krishna. He told Arjuna to renounce the feeling of doership and

encouraged Arjuna to fight.

(I'm not going into the details of Bhagavad Gita here).

 

Let's take another example.

Once a few robbers, came to Ramana Maharshi's ashram in the hope of

stealing money. But it was an ashram, and hence there was no money.

They threatened Maharshi and his disciples to give money, but

obviously they didn't have. But the thieves weren't willing to go

empty handed, and they beat Ramana Maharshi and his disciples. Some

disciples got really enraged on seeing their guru hurt, and were

about to hit the assailants back. But Maharshi just stopped them, and

said, "They are robbers, but we are sanyasins. Hitting and stealing

is their nature, and our nature is to remain calm. So don't hit them."

 

Now, let's come back to the real world....

So many things are happening in Gujarat. Many more things are

happening in many other places of the world. Should we just stand and

watch or shoud we do something about it? Should we fight for Dharma

or Justice?

 

The only answer I have is...

"If we are meant to fight then we must. If we are not meant to fight

then we must not."

Let's not take any responsibilities on our hands. Let's try to

renounce the sense of doership as much as possible. Let's surrender

to either our external Guru or our internal Guru, and abide by

everything said by our Guru.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

If I am not mistaken, in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna also told Arjuna

to do his duty.

 

"A person can never achieve freedom from reactions to activities

without first performing prescribed Vedic duties; neither can be

perfection be attained by renouncing them as well." (Chap. 3, verse 4)

 

Is it someone's duty to teach others about Hindu dharma? Or will

people know, if God wills it?

 

With love,

Erica

[Guest guest]

It is the duty of Guru to teach the disciples about the Hindu Dharma

or more broadly speaking about Vedas. Once the knowledge of Vedas is

transferred from the techer to disciple, then disciple pays the

teacher and goes back to do his duty based on the teachings that he

has received.

For anything to happen the God's will is always there.

-Savvy

 

, sugarandbrine <no_reply> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> If I am not mistaken, in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna also told Arjuna

> to do his duty.

>

> "A person can never achieve freedom from reactions to activities

> without first performing prescribed Vedic duties; neither can be

> perfection be attained by renouncing them as well." (Chap. 3, verse

4)

>

> Is it someone's duty to teach others about Hindu dharma? Or will

> people know, if God wills it?

>

> With love,

> Erica

[Guest guest]

Very true what you have said. At the same time I have more questions

for all members.

 

Bhagwan Krishna, who encouraged the destruction of Adharma, was an

avatar, and the Pandavas were evolved people. Today each group claims

his "God" to be THE ONE, and each justifies their destruction as a

fight against adharma. So who's adharma is to be destroyed? Who

decides on which one is Adharma? If both sides feel they are fighting

Adharma then why is any war wrong?

 

Bhagwan Krishna also says, as Erica reminds us, to do one's duty -

Dharma. Is it Dharma to stand up for Integrity and Right action? Is

it Dharma to publicly condemn and remove support for hatred, carnage,

killing, lying, cheating, both in smaller and larger communities? Is

it Adharma to remain quiet allowing such negativity to continue?

While right and wrong is relative, is their a bottom line in rules

for living on the physical level? Does Dharma include any

reponsibilites towards the community or is it totally self-focused?

We know that people gravitate towards those who they resonate with,

and nothing can stop that, (a leopard can't change its spots) but is

it part of Dharma to speak up in general for integrity and ethical

behavior?

 

So we don't take responsibilites at all? Is that not totally self

centered? I understand the role of non-doership, as far as not

allowing emotions of right and wrong not getting in the way, but I am

not sure about what the perception is about the responsibility

towards both our own sadhna and towards are fellow human beings?

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

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This is a reply to post 3607, by s_v_c_s.

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[Guest guest]

<Does Dharma include any responsibilities towards the community or is

it totally self-focused? >

 

<So we don't take responsibilities at all? Is that not totally self

centered? I understand the role of non-doership, as far as not

allowing emotions of right and wrong not getting in the way, but I am

not sure about what the perception is about the responsibility

towards both our own sadhna and towards are fellow human beings?>

 

We can take up these questions for discussion.

 

But before that as a Hindu staying in India I would like to point out

some harsh realities in dealing with religious Fanatism in India.

 

In the early 1990s there was a Hindu/Muslim/Christian riot in Kerala.

The then government appointed a judicial commission of enquiry. The

Judge was asked to pinpoint the cause of the riots and also suggest

ways of avoiding such problems in future.

 

Unlike many commissions this judge took his task seriously. He found

out the root cause, and named the perprators. He also suggested

formation of a committee with one Hindu Swamiji, One Bishop and one

Moulvi to ensure religious harmony. He named three persons who were

widely respected. These three men were actively involved in promoting

religious harmony. They were very enthusiastic about the commission.

The police force was also very enthusiastic about the report.

 

But even after more than 10 years the perprators have not been caught

or punished. The religious harmony committee has not been formed. The

government ruling then refused to do anything because of

political reasons. Even when they were thrown out of power and the

opposition formed a government they did nothing. The report of the

commission has not been officially published. But all the newspapers

and TV channels have carried the findings.

 

There is no clamour from the general public to take any action. No

political party has agitated for action.

 

All this has happened in a state, which is 100 % literate. This is

democracy in India.

Sad but True.

 

With this being the reality the only thing for us to do is to pray

for the victims and help them in whatever way we can.

 

So please let us close the topic of Hindu fanatism and discuss the

topic of Dharma and Adharma.

 

Thank You,

 

Sankar

 

 

 

, "tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

> Very true what you have said. At the same time I have more

questions

> for all members.

>

> Bhagwan Krishna, who encouraged the destruction of Adharma, was an

> avatar, and the Pandavas were evolved people. Today each group

claims

> his "God" to be THE ONE, and each justifies their destruction as a

> fight against adharma. So who's adharma is to be destroyed? Who

> decides on which one is Adharma? If both sides feel they are

fighting

> Adharma then why is any war wrong?

>

> Bhagwan Krishna also says, as Erica reminds us, to do one's duty -

> Dharma. Is it Dharma to stand up for Integrity and Right action? Is

> it Dharma to publicly condemn and remove support for hatred,

carnage,

> killing, lying, cheating, both in smaller and larger communities?

Is

> it Adharma to remain quiet allowing such negativity to continue?

> While right and wrong is relative, is their a bottom line in rules

> for living on the physical level? Does Dharma include any

> reponsibilites towards the community or is it totally self-focused?

> We know that people gravitate towards those who they resonate with,

> and nothing can stop that, (a leopard can't change its spots) but

is

> it part of Dharma to speak up in general for integrity and ethical

> behavior?

>

> So we don't take responsibilites at all? Is that not totally self

> centered? I understand the role of non-doership, as far as not

> allowing emotions of right and wrong not getting in the way, but I

am

> not sure about what the perception is about the responsibility

> towards both our own sadhna and towards are fellow human beings?

>

> _/\_ Tat twam asi

>

> Uma

>

> *****************************************

> This is a reply to post 3607, by s_v_c_s.

> ******************************************

[Guest guest]

The following is a part of the conversation tht took place between

Paul Brunton and Ramana Maharshi. (Maharshi left this physical body

in 1950. This conversation probably took place during one of the

World Wars).

 

pb: Will the world soon enter a new era of friendliness and mutual

help, or will it go down into chaos and war?

 

M: There is one who governs the world, and it is His look out to look

after the world. He who has given life to the world knows how to

look after it also. He bears the burden of this world, not you.

 

pb: Yet if one looks around with unprejudiced eyes, it is difficult

to see where this benevolent regard comes in.

 

M: As you are, so is the world. Without understanding yourself, what

is the use of trying to understand the world? This is a question

that seekers after truth need not consider. People waste their

energies over all such questions. First find out the truth in

yourself; then you will be in a better position to understand the

truth behind the world, of which yourself are a part.

 

------------------------

 

I remember reading a story from one of the Vedas ( If I remember

correctly, I think the story is from Rig Veda).

 

There was once a saint in a forest, who was very pios. He had a son,

and he all by himself brought him up. He taught all the Vedas,

Upanishads, and other scriptures. He himself, went to the nearby

village for alms. One day he fell ill, so he sent his teenaged son

to the village to get alms. The son obediently set out to the

village, and went to the nearest house for alms. There a young

teenaged girl came out to give him alms. Since this boy had seen only

himself and his father all his life, he was amazed to see a girl. He

didn't know why her chest was swollen, and asked her about it. The

girl felt shy, and ran into the house.

 

The mother of the girl then came out, and asked the boy what he

wanted to know. The boy was surprised to see, her chest swollen too,

and asked as to why they had swollen chests. The other replied, "

They are to nourish babies." The boy asked her, if that girl too had

babies. The mother replied in the negative and said, "She's not

married yet. We are looking out for a groom for her. Once she gets

married, she too will have babies." The boy was wonderstruck as to

how the Lord, made preparations to feed babies, long before they are

born. He thought to himself, " if the Lord takes care of babies long

before they are born, will he not take care of the other beings? Sure

he does." Thus he understood, that the Lord not only Created this

world, but also bears the burden of taking care of His children at

every step.

 

Now coming back to our question. : It is understood that the Lord who

created this world, also knows how to take care of it. Does that mean

we should just watch when there is Adharma all around?

 

Is this what Krishna was trying to say in the Bhagavad Gita? NO.

Then what must we do?

The only answer I have is :

"Ask your Guru.

If we are required to clamour, then so we must.

If we are required to fight, then so we must.

If we are required to lead, then so we must.

If we are required to watch, then so we must.

If we are required to encourage, then so we must.

 

We must do ONLY that, that is required of us.

 

What is important is not WHAT we do, but HOW we do.

 

So let's not bear the burden ourselves. Let us understand that the

Lord who created this world, also knows how to take care of it, and

hence let's perform action realising that we are his tools. Let us

just surrender to our Guru and do only that which we must, without

having the sense of doership, and surrendering the fruits of our

actions unto Krishna.(or Ista Devata).

 

 

Hari Aum !!!

 

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This is a reply to post 3654 by tatwamasi

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