Mantra for Beginners - 1

[Guest guest]

I am calling this message Mantra for Beginners as my messages are all

meant for beginners. Today I was reading a book on advanced

techniques in Kundalini Yoga. When my son took that book I warned him

that it is not for him now. Then I made a remark that even books on

spirituality and religion should be marked for beginners, for

Intermediate level and advanced level. This is done in all books on

computer programming languages because an advanced level book will

not make any sense to beginners and a book for beginners will sound

silly for advanced programmers.

 

He replied that it couldn't be done in spirituality and religion, as

noone will accept that he is a beginner in religion or spirituality.

Most of the books on religion and spirituality are written mainly for

advanced level people. Namely renunciates and adepts. So adepts,

renunciates and spiritually advanced people may find my messages

silly.

 

Now that the statutory warning is given, here I go.

 

I was going through the messages on Mantra, gurus, Japa, Nama Japa

over the last six months. I started wondering how come we all read

the same books, but understand differently. Again how come great

people like Swami Sivananda and others emphasize the role of the Guru

and also say you can choose your mantra without a Guru? Om is a

mantra, which every Hindu recites almost daily in one form or the

other. My son when he was 3 years old used to call the priest in his

Grandfather's house OM mama. (Om uncle) because most of the time he

was reciting OM..... We have so many messages about its effect and

whether you need a Guru. (I also sent a couple of IMs).

 

Then suddenly eureka! It struck me. The term Mantra means different

things to different people. I will take an example. There was an old

message from glnsamp67 about the difference between Nama Japa and

Mantra Japa. (I have learnt many things from glnsamp67 messages. I

am sorry that I never thanked him for his messages. Thank You

glnsamp67 ). Mantra Yoga is sometimes seen as part of Nada Yoga. The

effect of the Mantra is due to the effect of the sound produced. I do

not think there is any difference of opinion about this. If this is

so how does Nama japa work? Again the effect of sound. So where is

the difference between Nama and Mantra. We talk about the effect of

hymns and prayers. Again the effect of sound. There are many Hymns

and prayers, which are considered Mantras. The entire Devi Mahatmyam

is considered to be a single mantra or a garland of 700 mantras. The

four Sthudhis (prayers) are considered to be mantras. In Soundharya

Lahari every stanza is considered to be a mantra. In the Vishnu

Sahashranama some of the verses used as mantras give certain effects

like improving memory, .... etc. We used to recite these verses

when we were young for improving our performance in examinations.

Rama Nama is considered to be the greatest mantra. (Phalasthudhi of

Vishnu Sahasranama ) Maharshi Valmikhi became a Maharshi by reciting

Mara, Mara.

 

The entire Vedic recitation was considered mantra. We have marriage

mantras, Upanayana mantras and mantras for all samskaras.

 

 

So all hymns, prayers, and Namas are also mantras. The common

perception that only exoteric, Tantrik and Vedantic mantras are

mantras is wrong.

 

I was the one who had talked a lot about Mantra Sasthra. Where does

Mantra Sasthra fit in here? Mantra Sasthra also talks about mantras

for getting powers other than spiritual. We are talking now only

about mantras for spiritual advancement

 

Once we accept that all these are mantras then we begin to understand

Swami Sivananda.

 

It has always been difficult to get good Gurus. If everyone waited to

get a Guru before taking the first steps towards spirituality, there

will be very few spiritual people in the world. Since it is never too

early to begin, we are taught hymns, prayers, Namas. It is not that

you cannot achieve the Ultimate with these mantras. Swami Ramdass

(sage of Kananghad) had only one mantra "Sri ram jai Ram Om". He

spent years searching for a Guru. In the end his father initiated him

into this mantra. Saint Chaithanya Maha Prabhu was an embodiment of

the Krishna nama. Even In Vedanta philosophical truths like Tatwamasi

and Aham Brahma Asmi are used as mantras.

 

How come we differentiate between Mantras, hymns, prayers, and Namas?

Of course hymns and prayers are poetry. May be it is because Mantras

other than Vedic mantras have come to be associated with Black Magic

in the minds of the general public. In most of the Indian languages

mantra means magic. In Tamil Tantra means trick. So may be people

avoided using the term Mantra.

 

Hymns in Soundharya Lahari have their own separate Yantras and

rituals which being purely Tantrik are difficult to learn without a

proper guru. Vedic recitation is almost impossible without proper

training under a Guru. But Rama Nama does not need a guru.

So whether you need a Guru or not depends on the Mantra.

 

I will deal with Japa and meditation in my next post because here

again we have a difference between common perception and actual

practice.

 

Sankar

[Guest guest]

Dear sankar jee,

 

thanks for bringing this topic for beginners. I am sure it

would help many.

 

you have written that hymns, devi mahatamya veda etc are all mantras

of a sort. we are also warned not to recite mantras without gurus

and going by your explanation almost everything is a mantra.

 

So what exactly is a Mantra which should be dealt with

cautiously. We do not chant japa or hymns or devi mahatamya etc.

with as much care as Beeja mantras.

 

What set of words should be termed as Mantra which need a guru,

purification and caution. Certainly we cant not say so about all the

names of Gods (which are also a sort of mantra in a form). Is there

a generalisation of Mantra which separates "Safe Mantras" and "Mantra

with caution" ?

 

also pls tell me if it is the "Syllables" of the Mantra or Sound

(frequency/pitch) produced by the mantra which affects. Can we also

say that like computer languages, some mantra work directly on

Kundalini (say hardware of comp) and some mantras work indirectly

(like advanced language like C or VB)....what in a Mantra decides

this ??

 

 

 

Hari AUM

 

 

 

 

PS: I always ask questions to bring out more and more truth on the

board...and it is never my intention to hurt/question authority/prove

wrong...hope my innocent questions are taken in right spirit (smiles)

 

, sankarrukku <no_reply> wrote:

>

> I am calling this message Mantra for Beginners as my messages are

all

> meant for beginners. Today I was reading a book on advanced

> techniques in Kundalini Yoga. When my son took that book I warned

him

> that it is not for him now. Then I made a remark that even books on

> spirituality and religion should be marked for beginners, for

> Intermediate level and advanced level. This is done in all books on

> computer programming languages because an advanced level book will

> not make any sense to beginners and a book for beginners will sound

> silly for advanced programmers.

>

> He replied that it couldn't be done in spirituality and religion,

as

> noone will accept that he is a beginner in religion or

spirituality.

> Most of the books on religion and spirituality are written mainly

for

> advanced level people. Namely renunciates and adepts. So adepts,

> renunciates and spiritually advanced people may find my messages

> silly.

>

> Now that the statutory warning is given, here I go.

>

> I was going through the messages on Mantra, gurus, Japa, Nama Japa

> over the last six months. I started wondering how come we all read

> the same books, but understand differently. Again how come great

> people like Swami Sivananda and others emphasize the role of the

Guru

> and also say you can choose your mantra without a Guru? Om is a

> mantra, which every Hindu recites almost daily in one form or the

> other. My son when he was 3 years old used to call the priest in

his

> Grandfather's house OM mama. (Om uncle) because most of the time he

> was reciting OM..... We have so many messages about its effect and

> whether you need a Guru. (I also sent a couple of IMs).

>

> Then suddenly eureka! It struck me. The term Mantra means different

> things to different people. I will take an example. There was an

old

> message from glnsamp67 about the difference between Nama Japa and

> Mantra Japa. (I have learnt many things from glnsamp67 messages. I

> am sorry that I never thanked him for his messages. Thank You

> glnsamp67 ). Mantra Yoga is sometimes seen as part of Nada Yoga.

The

> effect of the Mantra is due to the effect of the sound produced. I

do

> not think there is any difference of opinion about this. If this is

> so how does Nama japa work? Again the effect of sound. So where is

> the difference between Nama and Mantra. We talk about the effect of

> hymns and prayers. Again the effect of sound. There are many Hymns

> and prayers, which are considered Mantras. The entire Devi

Mahatmyam

> is considered to be a single mantra or a garland of 700 mantras.

The

> four Sthudhis (prayers) are considered to be mantras. In Soundharya

> Lahari every stanza is considered to be a mantra. In the Vishnu

> Sahashranama some of the verses used as mantras give certain

effects

> like improving memory, .... etc. We used to recite these verses

> when we were young for improving our performance in examinations.

> Rama Nama is considered to be the greatest mantra. (Phalasthudhi of

> Vishnu Sahasranama ) Maharshi Valmikhi became a Maharshi by

reciting

> Mara, Mara.

>

> The entire Vedic recitation was considered mantra. We have marriage

> mantras, Upanayana mantras and mantras for all samskaras.

>

>

> So all hymns, prayers, and Namas are also mantras. The common

> perception that only exoteric, Tantrik and Vedantic mantras are

> mantras is wrong.

>

> I was the one who had talked a lot about Mantra Sasthra. Where does

> Mantra Sasthra fit in here? Mantra Sasthra also talks about mantras

> for getting powers other than spiritual. We are talking now only

> about mantras for spiritual advancement

>

> Once we accept that all these are mantras then we begin to

understand

> Swami Sivananda.

>

> It has always been difficult to get good Gurus. If everyone waited

to

> get a Guru before taking the first steps towards spirituality,

there

> will be very few spiritual people in the world. Since it is never

too

> early to begin, we are taught hymns, prayers, Namas. It is not that

> you cannot achieve the Ultimate with these mantras. Swami Ramdass

> (sage of Kananghad) had only one mantra "Sri ram jai Ram Om". He

> spent years searching for a Guru. In the end his father initiated

him

> into this mantra. Saint Chaithanya Maha Prabhu was an embodiment of

> the Krishna nama. Even In Vedanta philosophical truths like

Tatwamasi

> and Aham Brahma Asmi are used as mantras.

>

> How come we differentiate between Mantras, hymns, prayers, and

Namas?

> Of course hymns and prayers are poetry. May be it is because

Mantras

> other than Vedic mantras have come to be associated with Black

Magic

> in the minds of the general public. In most of the Indian languages

> mantra means magic. In Tamil Tantra means trick. So may be people

> avoided using the term Mantra.

>

> Hymns in Soundharya Lahari have their own separate Yantras and

> rituals which being purely Tantrik are difficult to learn without a

> proper guru. Vedic recitation is almost impossible without proper

> training under a Guru. But Rama Nama does not need a guru.

> So whether you need a Guru or not depends on the Mantra.

>

> I will deal with Japa and meditation in my next post because here

> again we have a difference between common perception and actual

> practice.

>

> Sankar

[Guest guest]

Respected Silent soul,

 

You had said about Devi Mahatmya and other hymns. Devi Mahatmya is

considered to be the supreme text of many Saktha Sampradhayas. To

even read Devi Mahatmya you need Adhikara or right, which can be

given only by a Tantrik guru. Again there are rituals and laid down

procedures for even reading Devi Mahatmya. This is emphasized in all

texts. For the full details of the rituals of reading Devi Mahatmya

you can see the book Sri Chandi by Swami Sathyananda Saraswathi. The

text by the Gita Press also gives the rituals and contains a warning

not to read it without Adhikara. To get over these restrictions Sri

Sri Chandi was translated into Bengali long time back. The Sthudhis

can be said without any restriction.

 

Similarly very strict rules have been laid down for reading

Soundharya Lahari.

 

But these rules have been given a go by in the case of Soundharya

Lahari in South India. This has started happening in the case of Devi

Mahatmyam also.

 

This has started happening in the case of mantras also. Mantras have

ceased to be the exclusive privilege of the few. In India you can get

any mantra from a book or magazine. People have also started reciting

even esoteric mantras.

I reproduce a part of my message in another club

 

" Fortunately in the last few years the irrational fear of Mantras

has begun to disappear among common people due to the efforts of many

saints, scholars and popular magazines. There are magazines in

Tamil "Bhakthi" and "Anmeekam" and also in Hindi, which have started

giving one Mantra every month, sometimes with the Yantra also. I was

surprised to see that a magazine came out with MAA DHOOMAVATHI Mantra

a couple of months back stating that it is very good for general

prosperity. Then I realized that I am having a wrong conception of

MAA DHOOMAVATHI because of her image. She is MAA and will reward

devotion."

 

All books on mantra contain a warning that mantras should not be said

without the guidance of a Guru. In fact some of them in English even

disclaim any responsibility if anything goes wrong. According to

mantra Sasthra there are millions of mantras. But not all of them are

listed in books. Many mantras have been forgotten. Many remain the

exclusive property of some families.

 

There is no standardization even in important mantras. For example

there is one mantra with two Beeja mantras. There are many different

ways of reciting the same mantra.

 

1. Mantra alone.

2. Mantra preceded by Om

3.Mantra with Om followed at the end with Swaha

4. Mantra without Om but with Swaha.

5. The two Beeja mantras repeated once.

6. Beeja mantras repeated twice.

 

And so on.

So you see the same mantra in different permutations and

combinations. The exact mantra will depend on the tradition of the

Guru.

 

There is no generalization or classification of mantras as safe or

otherwise.

 

About the pronunciation of the mantras different views prevail. Some

insisting on proper pronunciation. But this is a puritanical view. I

have known many Tantriks with Siddhis whose pronunciation of Sanskrit

leaves a lot to be desired. With no two Indians agreeing about whose

pronunciation of Sanskrit is correct, this is a difficult subject.

 

Here again I reproduce my message mantras and their efficacy posted

in another club

 

" I give below the words of Buddhist Govinda

 

"If the efficacy of the mantras depended upon their correct

pronunciation, then all the mantras in Tibet would have lost their

meaning and power, because they are not pronounced according to the

rules of Sanskrit, but according to the phonetic laws of the Tibetan

language (for instance not: OM MANI PADME HUM but OM MANI Peme HUM)

 

This means that the power and the effect of the Mantra depend on the

spiritual attitude, the knowledge and responsiveness of the

individual. The sabda or sound of the Mantra is not a physical sound

(though it may be accompanied by such a one) but a spiritual one. It

cannot be heard by the ears but only by the heart, and it cannot be

uttered by the mouth but only by the mind."

 

Filtered through Brooklynese, uttered as a Bronx cheer, whispered in

an East Texas drawl, OM is always OM - or it isn't. "

 

About the effect of Mantras on Kundalini and how they work a lot of

research has been done. But we have not seen any conclusive evidence.

 

Mantra Sasthra is a vast subject. You keep on learning. The

book "Understanding mantras" from Motilall Banarsidass is a good book.

 

Sankar

 

P.S. Silent soulji - Your message reminded me of a sher

 

"Dil abhi poori tharah toota nahin

Dhosthon ki meherbani chahiye "

 

(say Subahn Allah jawab nahin or wah re wah- laugh )

[Guest guest]

Dear sankar, thank you for your post and the details on reading

Devimahatma. But i feel that in this world of self made gurus and the

world of advocaters of self made guru system - only a few are willing

to listen to different perspectives or a different point of view.

There are more than wheat is written in the books.

 

As you know it about the chanting of mantra, the matras and timing of

the mantra, how to select the mantra for the chelas according to the

Ramarchan chandrika according to the Rasi and Lagna according to ones

horoscope.

 

The types of Dhayana - meditation mudras - the breathing system -

pranayama. These are many things which only the Guruji teaches to his

disciples. and i am sure Guruji does not teach the same thing to

everyone - the teaching differs from person to person.

 

I am sure sure you cannot teach this on the net and those who are

self made Gurs will criticise you right and left as they are not

aware what happens between a a Guru and chela system.

 

To learn about the indian tantrik system one has to learn from the

gurudeva that how to do the asan suddhi, bhutsuddhi and other ritual

parts- who will believe it? As the modern gurus are not aware of the

rituals attached to it.

 

As all is not written in the books and tantra is not a bookish

knowldge as you know the real tantriks never write the books on

intricate sytems of tantra yoga and meditation and even the books

found the details of how the realisations comes are not given.

 

Can you tell me how many people knows about the adhikar of reading

Sri Sri Chandi and Devi Mahatma?

 

jyotishguru

 

, sankarrukku <no_reply> wrote:

> Respected Silent soul,

>

> You had said about Devi Mahatmya and other hymns. Devi Mahatmya is

> considered to be the supreme text of many Saktha Sampradhayas. To

> even read Devi Mahatmya you need Adhikara or right, which can be

> given only by a Tantrik guru. Again there are rituals and laid down

> procedures for even reading Devi Mahatmya. This is emphasized in

all

> texts. For the full details of the rituals of reading Devi Mahatmya

> you can see the book Sri Chandi by Swami Sathyananda Saraswathi.

The

> text by the Gita Press also gives the rituals and contains a

warning

> not to read it without Adhikara. To get over these restrictions Sri

> Sri Chandi was translated into Bengali long time back. The Sthudhis

> can be said without any restriction.

>

> Similarly very strict rules have been laid down for reading

> Soundharya Lahari.

>

> But these rules have been given a go by in the case of Soundharya

> Lahari in South India. This has started happening in the case of

Devi

> Mahatmyam also.

>

> This has started happening in the case of mantras also. Mantras

have

> ceased to be the exclusive privilege of the few. In India you can

get

> any mantra from a book or magazine. People have also started

reciting

> even esoteric mantras.

> I reproduce a part of my message in another club

>

> " Fortunately in the last few years the irrational fear of Mantras

> has begun to disappear among common people due to the efforts of

many

> saints, scholars and popular magazines. There are magazines in

> Tamil "Bhakthi" and "Anmeekam" and also in Hindi, which have

started

> giving one Mantra every month, sometimes with the Yantra also. I

was

> surprised to see that a magazine came out with MAA DHOOMAVATHI

Mantra

> a couple of months back stating that it is very good for general

> prosperity. Then I realized that I am having a wrong conception of

> MAA DHOOMAVATHI because of her image. She is MAA and will reward

> devotion."

>

> All books on mantra contain a warning that mantras should not be

said

> without the guidance of a Guru. In fact some of them in English

even

> disclaim any responsibility if anything goes wrong. According to

> mantra Sasthra there are millions of mantras. But not all of them

are

> listed in books. Many mantras have been forgotten. Many remain the

> exclusive property of some families.

>

> There is no standardization even in important mantras. For example

> there is one mantra with two Beeja mantras. There are many

different

> ways of reciting the same mantra.

>

> 1. Mantra alone.

> 2. Mantra preceded by Om

> 3.Mantra with Om followed at the end with Swaha

> 4. Mantra without Om but with Swaha.

> 5. The two Beeja mantras repeated once.

> 6. Beeja mantras repeated twice.

>

> And so on.

> So you see the same mantra in different permutations and

> combinations. The exact mantra will depend on the tradition of the

> Guru.

>

> There is no generalization or classification of mantras as safe or

> otherwise.

>

> About the pronunciation of the mantras different views prevail.

Some

> insisting on proper pronunciation. But this is a puritanical view.

I

> have known many Tantriks with Siddhis whose pronunciation of

Sanskrit

> leaves a lot to be desired. With no two Indians agreeing about

whose

> pronunciation of Sanskrit is correct, this is a difficult subject.

>

> Here again I reproduce my message mantras and their efficacy posted

> in another club

>

> " I give below the words of Buddhist Govinda

>

> "If the efficacy of the mantras depended upon their correct

> pronunciation, then all the mantras in Tibet would have lost their

> meaning and power, because they are not pronounced according to the

> rules of Sanskrit, but according to the phonetic laws of the

Tibetan

> language (for instance not: OM MANI PADME HUM but OM MANI Peme HUM)

>

> This means that the power and the effect of the Mantra depend on

the

> spiritual attitude, the knowledge and responsiveness of the

> individual. The sabda or sound of the Mantra is not a physical

sound

> (though it may be accompanied by such a one) but a spiritual one.

It

> cannot be heard by the ears but only by the heart, and it cannot be

> uttered by the mouth but only by the mind."

>

> Filtered through Brooklynese, uttered as a Bronx cheer, whispered

in

> an East Texas drawl, OM is always OM - or it isn't. "

>

> About the effect of Mantras on Kundalini and how they work a lot of

> research has been done. But we have not seen any conclusive

evidence.

>

> Mantra Sasthra is a vast subject. You keep on learning. The

> book "Understanding mantras" from Motilall Banarsidass is a good

book.

>

> Sankar

>

> P.S. Silent soulji - Your message reminded me of a sher

>

> "Dil abhi poori tharah toota nahin

> Dhosthon ki meherbani chahiye "

>

> (say Subahn Allah jawab nahin or wah re wah- laugh )

[Guest guest]

Thanks sankar ji for the reply. Well if we go stictly by the books,

then one can not do any Mantra without initiation...and in this era

of frauds and fakes, it is almost impossible for us to find true

gurus. Will that imply, we should refrain from doing any Japa till

then ? That may not be a good situation..and it is not so. Durga

Saptshati is being read by millions of people in India without any

initiation/guru and i cant say all of them were harmed.

 

what i wished to emphasize is that Tantrik and Beeja mantra do

need proper initiation, but simple mantras like Om Namo shivaya or

Aum namo Bhagwate vasudevaye or Aum shri Durgaye namah can be chanted

by any householder without any guru/iniitiation. and such recitation

will also lead one towards the Truth (perhaps a little slower though).

 

 

will you kindly tell me that some Mantras end with Swaha and some

mantra end with Namah and both Swaha and namah are not used

together. What is the significance of Swaha/namah in a mantra ? Do

they have different effect on us?

 

Also what is the relation between a Mantra and a Mala....mean

which mantras are to be chanted with Tulsi mala, which with Rudraksha

and which with crystal beads (if telling this info is not against

Tantrik practices.)

 

Hari Aum

 

Ps: Wah - wah for the sher and my reply is

 

Meri Ruswayee mein...woh bhi hain barabar ke shareek !

Mere kisse mere yaron ko sunata kya hai !!

 

 

 

, sankarrukku <no_reply> wrote:

> Respected Silent soul,

>

> You had said about Devi Mahatmya and other hymns. Devi Mahatmya is

> considered to be the supreme text of many Saktha Sampradhayas. To

> even read Devi Mahatmya you need Adhikara or right, which can be

> given only by a Tantrik guru. Again there are rituals and laid down

> procedures for even reading Devi Mahatmya. This is emphasized in

all

> texts. For the full details of the rituals of reading Devi Mahatmya

> you can see the book Sri Chandi by Swami Sathyananda Saraswathi.

The

> text by the Gita Press also gives the rituals and contains a

warning

> not to read it without Adhikara. To get over these restrictions Sri

> Sri Chandi was translated into Bengali long time back. The Sthudhis

> can be said without any restriction.

>

> Similarly very strict rules have been laid down for reading

> Soundharya Lahari.

>

> But these rules have been given a go by in the case of Soundharya

> Lahari in South India. This has started happening in the case of

Devi

> Mahatmyam also.

>

> This has started happening in the case of mantras also. Mantras

have

> ceased to be the exclusive privilege of the few. In India you can

get

> any mantra from a book or magazine. People have also started

reciting

> even esoteric mantras.

> I reproduce a part of my message in another club

>

> " Fortunately in the last few years the irrational fear of Mantras

> has begun to disappear among common people due to the efforts of

many

> saints, scholars and popular magazines. There are magazines in

> Tamil "Bhakthi" and "Anmeekam" and also in Hindi, which have

started

> giving one Mantra every month, sometimes with the Yantra also. I

was

> surprised to see that a magazine came out with MAA DHOOMAVATHI

Mantra

> a couple of months back stating that it is very good for general

> prosperity. Then I realized that I am having a wrong conception of

> MAA DHOOMAVATHI because of her image. She is MAA and will reward

> devotion."

>

> All books on mantra contain a warning that mantras should not be

said

> without the guidance of a Guru. In fact some of them in English

even

> disclaim any responsibility if anything goes wrong. According to

> mantra Sasthra there are millions of mantras. But not all of them

are

> listed in books. Many mantras have been forgotten. Many remain the

> exclusive property of some families.

>

> There is no standardization even in important mantras. For example

> there is one mantra with two Beeja mantras. There are many

different

> ways of reciting the same mantra.

>

> 1. Mantra alone.

> 2. Mantra preceded by Om

> 3.Mantra with Om followed at the end with Swaha

> 4. Mantra without Om but with Swaha.

> 5. The two Beeja mantras repeated once.

> 6. Beeja mantras repeated twice.

>

> And so on.

> So you see the same mantra in different permutations and

> combinations. The exact mantra will depend on the tradition of the

> Guru.

>

> There is no generalization or classification of mantras as safe or

> otherwise.

>

> About the pronunciation of the mantras different views prevail.

Some

> insisting on proper pronunciation. But this is a puritanical view.

I

> have known many Tantriks with Siddhis whose pronunciation of

Sanskrit

> leaves a lot to be desired. With no two Indians agreeing about

whose

> pronunciation of Sanskrit is correct, this is a difficult subject.

>

> Here again I reproduce my message mantras and their efficacy posted

> in another club

>

> " I give below the words of Buddhist Govinda

>

> "If the efficacy of the mantras depended upon their correct

> pronunciation, then all the mantras in Tibet would have lost their

> meaning and power, because they are not pronounced according to the

> rules of Sanskrit, but according to the phonetic laws of the

Tibetan

> language (for instance not: OM MANI PADME HUM but OM MANI Peme HUM)

>

> This means that the power and the effect of the Mantra depend on

the

> spiritual attitude, the knowledge and responsiveness of the

> individual. The sabda or sound of the Mantra is not a physical

sound

> (though it may be accompanied by such a one) but a spiritual one.

It

> cannot be heard by the ears but only by the heart, and it cannot be

> uttered by the mouth but only by the mind."

>

> Filtered through Brooklynese, uttered as a Bronx cheer, whispered

in

> an East Texas drawl, OM is always OM - or it isn't. "

>

> About the effect of Mantras on Kundalini and how they work a lot of

> research has been done. But we have not seen any conclusive

evidence.

>

> Mantra Sasthra is a vast subject. You keep on learning. The

> book "Understanding mantras" from Motilall Banarsidass is a good

book.

>

> Sankar

>

> P.S. Silent soulji - Your message reminded me of a sher

>

> "Dil abhi poori tharah toota nahin

> Dhosthon ki meherbani chahiye "

>

> (say Subahn Allah jawab nahin or wah re wah- laugh )

[Guest guest]

This subject is really so exciting! I have great desire to learn

tantra however where I live there are no Gurus of Tantra, perhaps

even in India it would be difficult to find one. So, I cant know

about tantra anything. I just read all and any books I find on it.

 

May I have a wild guess... a Mala with Rudraksha beads is used for

Om , or Om namah shivaya, as it is somehow related to Lord Shiva. Its

just my impression. Is that correct???

 

I think Swaha has feminine nature and is related to the the sun

region (swaha loka= the realm of sun). It is used by people who are

over 28 years old. Namaha is neither feminine nor masculine, it could

mean nam maha?The Great name? Intensifying the principles of the

mantra used? Both are endings so they cant be used at the same time.

I am just guessing...

 

It seems that there is disagreement among the spiritual practicioners

about whether one can practice alone or a guru is absolutely

necessary... Which is actually the importance of the guru, which

should be his practically spiritual responsibilities and should he

have merged to the Great Soul (?!)or just spiritually advanced people

can be gurus? The techniques of tantric meditations will always

remain techiniques. I have heard the expression that a guru "loads"

the mantra with his pranic power and it is more intense than using it

without initiation. Perhaps its some kind of "grace" given by a guru

that helps to advance faster. Is that all though? Is a guru an outer

guide (imparting the techniques) or an "inner" guide (an astral

guide?!) ?

 

Personally, as a total novice in this field, I prefer to make my own

comparisons among the techniques and the teachings so as to

understand their function intellectually first in order to protect

myself from emotional maya or a sort of fanatism. I have met quite a

few gurus from india, but how can I judge their spiritual level, when

I am not in any level? So I use my intellect to decide which guru

would be suitable for me and for which reasons. I think accepting a

guru should be a very serious subject. I have seen many people

accepting gurus or faiths and then regreting it, changing their

meditational ways many times and being in distress. Each individual

should know what its needs are and which spiritual practice is best

for him. If we only listen to our body (the way the body reacts to a

mantra), mind (whether the thoughts and emotions are positive or

negative after using a mantra) and soul (is our consiousness clearer

after using the mantra?) the answers are all there. I think our

intellect is being artificially manipulated through all the Donts

(about chosing sadhana) from different paths and opinions in

spirituality. If only we could think reasonably by aqcuiring all the

objective knowledge and if only we could listen to the silent talking

of our body-mind-soul , perhaps then we would be able to be more

natural in our desicions concerning choice of mantra or of guru etc.

 

But its just my humble opinion (ready to change if i get other

experiences though)... smiles...

 

OM Namah Shivaya

 

PS: Dearest Silentsoulji , if I may ask you, do you have a guru?

 

 

, silentsoul_55 <no_reply> wrote:

> Thanks sankar ji for the reply. Well if we go stictly by the books,

> then one can not do any Mantra without initiation...and in this era

> of frauds and fakes, it is almost impossible for us to find true

> gurus. Will that imply, we should refrain from doing any Japa till

> then ? That may not be a good situation..and it is not so. Durga

> Saptshati is being read by millions of people in India without any

> initiation/guru and i cant say all of them were harmed.

>

> what i wished to emphasize is that Tantrik and Beeja mantra do

> need proper initiation, but simple mantras like Om Namo shivaya or

> Aum namo Bhagwate vasudevaye or Aum shri Durgaye namah can be

chanted

> by any householder without any guru/iniitiation. and such

recitation

> will also lead one towards the Truth (perhaps a little slower

though).

>

>

> will you kindly tell me that some Mantras end with Swaha and some

> mantra end with Namah and both Swaha and namah are not used

> together. What is the significance of Swaha/namah in a mantra ? Do

> they have different effect on us?

>

> Also what is the relation between a Mantra and a Mala....mean

> which mantras are to be chanted with Tulsi mala, which with

Rudraksha

> and which with crystal beads (if telling this info is not against

> Tantrik practices.)

>

> Hari Aum

>

> Ps: Wah - wah for the sher and my reply is

>

> Meri Ruswayee mein...woh bhi hain barabar ke shareek !

> Mere kisse mere yaron ko sunata kya hai !!

>

>

>

> , sankarrukku <no_reply> wrote:

> > Respected Silent soul,

> >

> > You had said about Devi Mahatmya and other hymns. Devi Mahatmya

is

> > considered to be the supreme text of many Saktha Sampradhayas. To

> > even read Devi Mahatmya you need Adhikara or right, which can be

> > given only by a Tantrik guru. Again there are rituals and laid

down

> > procedures for even reading Devi Mahatmya. This is emphasized in

> all

> > texts. For the full details of the rituals of reading Devi

Mahatmya

> > you can see the book Sri Chandi by Swami Sathyananda Saraswathi.

> The

> > text by the Gita Press also gives the rituals and contains a

> warning

> > not to read it without Adhikara. To get over these restrictions

Sri

> > Sri Chandi was translated into Bengali long time back. The

Sthudhis

> > can be said without any restriction.

> >

> > Similarly very strict rules have been laid down for reading

> > Soundharya Lahari.

> >

> > But these rules have been given a go by in the case of Soundharya

> > Lahari in South India. This has started happening in the case of

> Devi

> > Mahatmyam also.

> >

> > This has started happening in the case of mantras also. Mantras

> have

> > ceased to be the exclusive privilege of the few. In India you can

> get

> > any mantra from a book or magazine. People have also started

> reciting

> > even esoteric mantras.

> > I reproduce a part of my message in another club

> >

> > " Fortunately in the last few years the irrational fear of

Mantras

> > has begun to disappear among common people due to the efforts of

> many

> > saints, scholars and popular magazines. There are magazines in

> > Tamil "Bhakthi" and "Anmeekam" and also in Hindi, which have

> started

> > giving one Mantra every month, sometimes with the Yantra also. I

> was

> > surprised to see that a magazine came out with MAA DHOOMAVATHI

> Mantra

> > a couple of months back stating that it is very good for general

> > prosperity. Then I realized that I am having a wrong conception

of

> > MAA DHOOMAVATHI because of her image. She is MAA and will reward

> > devotion."

> >

> > All books on mantra contain a warning that mantras should not be

> said

> > without the guidance of a Guru. In fact some of them in English

> even

> > disclaim any responsibility if anything goes wrong. According to

> > mantra Sasthra there are millions of mantras. But not all of them

> are

> > listed in books. Many mantras have been forgotten. Many remain

the

> > exclusive property of some families.

> >

> > There is no standardization even in important mantras. For

example

> > there is one mantra with two Beeja mantras. There are many

> different

> > ways of reciting the same mantra.

> >

> > 1. Mantra alone.

> > 2. Mantra preceded by Om

> > 3.Mantra with Om followed at the end with Swaha

> > 4. Mantra without Om but with Swaha.

> > 5. The two Beeja mantras repeated once.

> > 6. Beeja mantras repeated twice.

> >

> > And so on.

> > So you see the same mantra in different permutations and

> > combinations. The exact mantra will depend on the tradition of

the

> > Guru.

> >

> > There is no generalization or classification of mantras as safe

or

> > otherwise.

> >

> > About the pronunciation of the mantras different views prevail.

> Some

> > insisting on proper pronunciation. But this is a puritanical

view.

> I

> > have known many Tantriks with Siddhis whose pronunciation of

> Sanskrit

> > leaves a lot to be desired. With no two Indians agreeing about

> whose

> > pronunciation of Sanskrit is correct, this is a difficult subject.

> >

> > Here again I reproduce my message mantras and their efficacy

posted

> > in another club

> >

> > " I give below the words of Buddhist Govinda

> >

> > "If the efficacy of the mantras depended upon their correct

> > pronunciation, then all the mantras in Tibet would have lost

their

> > meaning and power, because they are not pronounced according to

the

> > rules of Sanskrit, but according to the phonetic laws of the

> Tibetan

> > language (for instance not: OM MANI PADME HUM but OM MANI Peme

HUM)

> >

> > This means that the power and the effect of the Mantra depend on

> the

> > spiritual attitude, the knowledge and responsiveness of the

> > individual. The sabda or sound of the Mantra is not a physical

> sound

> > (though it may be accompanied by such a one) but a spiritual one.

> It

> > cannot be heard by the ears but only by the heart, and it cannot

be

> > uttered by the mouth but only by the mind."

> >

> > Filtered through Brooklynese, uttered as a Bronx cheer, whispered

> in

> > an East Texas drawl, OM is always OM - or it isn't. "

> >

> > About the effect of Mantras on Kundalini and how they work a lot

of

> > research has been done. But we have not seen any conclusive

> evidence.

> >

> > Mantra Sasthra is a vast subject. You keep on learning. The

> > book "Understanding mantras" from Motilall Banarsidass is a good

> book.

> >

> > Sankar

> >

> > P.S. Silent soulji - Your message reminded me of a sher

> >

> > "Dil abhi poori tharah toota nahin

> > Dhosthon ki meherbani chahiye "

> >

> > (say Subahn Allah jawab nahin or wah re wah- laugh )

[Guest guest]

Dear Jyothishguruji, Thank You for your message.

 

I am in total agreement with you that Tantra cannot be taught on the

net. My club experience is about six months. In the beginning I

thought I could at least make people understand that Tantra is not

what the popular Tantrik sites talk about. But I have now understood

the limitations and have almost stopped talking about Tantra. But

once in a while I can not help it.

 

Sankar

[Guest guest]

I have been posting messages about Mantras with the aim of

demystifying Mantras. I was talking about Sri Sri Chandi only to

point out that there is a lot of difference between the books and

practice. I do not know how people started reading Sri Sri Chandi.

But I know about Soundharya Lahari. This was not read by many people

in the south because of the restrictions imposed. But in the early

70s The Kanchi Kamakoti Peetathipathi told his followers that there

is no restriction in reading the text, and that it is extremely

beneficial if Housewives recite it. So Soundharya Lahari became very

popular.

 

Again Gayatri mantra was supposed to be only for the upper castes who

receive Upadesa. But then Swami Dayananda Saraswathi (founder of Arya

Samaj) removed all restrictions on this mantra. Now it has even

become a cinema song.

 

Excepting a few Tantrik mantras other mantras do not cause any harm.

It is only said that the effect may not be as dramatic as it is when

it is recited properly. About the need for a guru I agree with you.

But I have been riled at for saying the very same thing about

initiation.

 

You know there are mantras in languages other than Sanskrit. I know

many mantras in Tamil and Hindi. My Diksha Guruji gives initiation of

mantras in Tamil. I know of Muslim magicians who use Arabic and

Persian mantras. These mantras called Sabar Mantras by Dr. P.R.

Tigunait the spiritual head of the Himalayan institute. (Disciple of

Swami Rama). His classification of mantras is

 

Meditative mantras

Contemplative mantras

Siddha Mantras

Maha Mantras

Apta mantras

Sabar mantras

 

Malas have an effect on their own. This is independent of the

mantras. Generally Saivites and Sakthas use Rudraksha and

Vaishnavites use Tulsi. Tibetans use wooden malas. Counters have

become popular for mantra japa. They are used when you have to do

Japa thousands of times. Counters are used by Hare Krishna Devotees.

I have used a counter.

 

Namah is a declamation used at the end of a Nama in Archana or in the

middle in a mantra.

Example- Om Sri Rajarajeswaryai Namah - Namavali

Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevaya - Mantra.

Swaha is used generally when giving an oblation into the fire in

Homa. It is also used in a mantra at the end. Swaha is a name of MAA.

There are other interpretations as well.

 

Silentsoulji, I am opting out of any more messages on Mantras, as the

subject is too complicated, secretive and controversial. Enough

research is yet to be done on the subject.

 

Friends who are keen on furthering their knowledge of Mantras can

refer to the book Understanding Mantras -Edited by Harvey P. Alper -

This book contains 10 research articles on the subject.

 

Sankar

[Guest guest]

I have learned a great deal.

-

sankarrukku

Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:44 PM

Re: Mantra for Beginners - 1

 

 

Dear Jyothishguruji, Thank You for your message.

 

I am in total agreement with you that Tantra cannot be taught on the

net. My club experience is about six months. In the beginning I

thought I could at least make people understand that Tantra is not

what the popular Tantrik sites talk about. But I have now understood

the limitations and have almost stopped talking about Tantra. But

once in a while I can not help it.

 

Sankar

 

 

 

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[bapi]

sir i want to learn tantra mantra.please tell me the name of a bengali black magic book.