Guest guest Posted April 2, 2002 Report Share Posted April 2, 2002 My dear De_spell As per Hindu thoughts, Kundalini is the symbolic primodal shakti, the unmanifested cosmos, sleeping in all living beings but awakened/being awakened in Yogis and sadhakas. (hence it is incorrect to say that some have kundalini and some do not) Prana is the operative force of Shakti who works in the universe through 5 type of pranas. Prana and shakti are both different from SOUL. As per Hindu philosophy, soul is none of these but all are manifestations of soul. They are in the Supreme Soul, but He is not them. Omprem's warning about kundalini is very genuine, as trying to disturb the kundalini without proper teacher, may lead to serious mental imbalances or health hazards sometimes leading to death. But there are some mild Tantrik kriyas, Japa yoga and some other sadhnas which also awaken the kundalini in a safer way. In these sadhnas, attention is not kept on kundalini but on the supreme soul/God/shakti and we create love and longing for that SOUL, a process which ultimately leads to Kundalini awakening..but slowly as it may take many births to attain the ultimate stage. Now one question from the Learned ones....Can awakening of Kundalini be taken as Final Goal of any Sadhna. Can a person be called Liberated if his kundalini has fully arisen ?? Hari AUM , de_spell_2000 <no_reply> wrote: > Namaste:)! > > I believe this subject is always current and popular as it is the > result of all yogic disciplines. > > This doubt came lately to my mind: In what way is Prana different to > Kundalini? > > Would it be correct to say that both are energies but with a > different nature? > > This idea came to my mind... prana comes to the body from somekind > of universal source of prana, but kundalini is already in the body. > If Shakti, the personification of Kundalini has feminine nature, > perhaps prana has masculine nature (Hanuman as an incarnation of > Shiva). > > And this theory actually would solve all my doubts, if it is > correct. !!! > > Now I am thinking, is prana different than soul? > > I guess these are very subtle questions, maybe it is not possible to > be perceived intellectually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2002 Report Share Posted April 2, 2002 Thanks a lot Silentsoulji for both postings! I also prefer the theory of the kundalini being present in all living beings. There is a chinese pranic healer called: Choa Kok Sui, who claims that the kundalini has seven layers. In his books he claims that each layer is divided into seven other layers. Thats why the awakening of the kundalini has 49 stages. He also stresses the fact that the kundalini is awakened in each person but in a very small level. So the point is not to awaken the kundalini but in which grade it is awakened. The way I perceive yoga, leads me to the conclusion that a person with fully awakened kundalini is liberated. But... I couldn’t prove it.. . By the way, what does Jagran mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2002 Report Share Posted April 2, 2002 Om Silentsoul The awakening of kundalini is certainly not the final goal of any sadhna. The awakening of kundalini is only the start of the process that takes one to the final goal of Self-Realization. It matters not what one's spiritual practice is because each and every authentic spiritual practice will involve the awakening and raising of kundalini, intentionally or not. Nor can a person be called Liberated if his/her kundalini has fully risen. One can raise kundalini but still be subject to the effects of past karmas. Or, those past karmas can interfere with the functioning of the chakras to the extent that their true message is not capable of being perceived. Also, how long can a person hold their kundalini at the sahasrara chakra? Can they take it there at will? Obstacles to these latter accomplishments are the karmas that still afflict the seeker. Then, there is the question of why the person is seeking to raise their kundalini. If there is desire, even desire for God, then the seeker has more to do. If the seeker allows kundalini to rise because it is a natural expression of who he/she really is (just as the flower always seeks the sun), then there is no desire and the seeker is no longer a seeker but has identified themselves as Satchidananda, pure existence, absolute knowledge and absolute bliss without qualiies. It is only when all karmas are burned off and the mind is still that the seeker finds that they already are (and have been all along) what he/she has been seeking. Om namah Sivaya Omprem , silentsoul_55 <no_reply> wrote: > My dear De_spell > > As per Hindu thoughts, Kundalini is the symbolic primodal shakti, > the unmanifested cosmos, sleeping in all living beings but > awakened/being awakened in Yogis and sadhakas. (hence it is incorrect > to say that some have kundalini and some do not) > > Prana is the operative force of Shakti who works in the universe > through 5 type of pranas. Prana and shakti are both different from > SOUL. As per Hindu philosophy, soul is none of these but all are > manifestations of soul. They are in the Supreme Soul, but He is not > them. > > Omprem's warning about kundalini is very genuine, as trying to > disturb the kundalini without proper teacher, may lead to serious > mental imbalances or health hazards sometimes leading to death. > > But there are some mild Tantrik kriyas, Japa yoga and some other > sadhnas which also awaken the kundalini in a safer way. In these > sadhnas, attention is not kept on kundalini but on the supreme > soul/God/shakti and we create love and longing for that SOUL, a > process which ultimately leads to Kundalini awakening..but slowly as > it may take many births to attain the ultimate stage. > > Now one question from the Learned ones....Can awakening of > Kundalini be taken as Final Goal of any Sadhna. Can a person be > called Liberated if his kundalini has fully arisen ?? > > Hari AUM > > > , de_spell_2000 <no_reply> wrote: > > Namaste:)! > > > > I believe this subject is always current and popular as it is the > > result of all yogic disciplines. > > > > This doubt came lately to my mind: In what way is Prana different > to > > Kundalini? > > > > Would it be correct to say that both are energies but with a > > different nature? > > > > This idea came to my mind... prana comes to the body from somekind > > of universal source of prana, but kundalini is already in the body. > > If Shakti, the personification of Kundalini has feminine nature, > > perhaps prana has masculine nature (Hanuman as an incarnation of > > Shiva). > > > > And this theory actually would solve all my doubts, if it is > > correct. !!! > > > > Now I am thinking, is prana different than soul? > > > > I guess these are very subtle questions, maybe it is not possible > to > > be perceived intellectually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2002 Report Share Posted April 2, 2002 Does this mean that the kundalini can rise, go through the chakras and fully awaken, even when the effects of past karmas are not neutralized? Kundalini can fully rise even when the person has desires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2002 Report Share Posted April 2, 2002 Tks ompremji, I am also of the view that Kundalini arising is not the final goal (though it can be called a threshold to the final TRUTH). However, i may say that kundalini rises upto Agya Chakra only till the Karmas and desires are there and it only reaches Sahasardhara, when all desires and karma are fulfilled/controlled...and once it reaches there it burns even the seed of old karma and sankaras and it is from sahasradhara, that kundalini does not return to Muladhaara. One great soul told me once that Kundalini has 3 fixed places..Muladhaara, Heart chakra and sahasradhara, implying if kundalini reaches Heart chakra it will rest there for ever but if it goes upto say Manipuraka chakra...it will fall down to Muladhara again... From heart chakra it has next platform at Sahasradhara...before it, it will fall down to heart chakra....Well i cant say it with authority, as i have no experience of this yet. Just another view!! And dear de-spell kundalini does arise even if we have desires and past karma...it is,in fact, awakening of kundalini which gives us enough power to control our desires...create a positive will power in us. (Jagran means awakening). In Tantra and some shakta mantras, it was possible to awaken kundalini even if the sadhka had lot of bad desires...the force of Kundalini was used to fulfil their EGO and we have the concept of Asura/demons. It is said Lord Shiva "Locked" Tantra exercises and most of shakta mantras so that they are not misused by Asura minded people and the key to this lock is with very-very few numbers of great souls (Like Baba ji -of Autobiography of yogi for example), who only help those raise the kundalini, who have purified themselves and are fit to use it for positive purpose. However, with some exercises, kundalini still rises upto certain level giving extreme will-power and energy to the person concerned. If the person uses it for positive aspects (like Mother terressa e.g.), those souls are given opportunity to raise it further in next birth...and those who use it for Negativity (like Hitler e.g.) they are used by Mother Nature as toys to destroy and are finally are destroyed themselves. Kundalini, even in common person releases some energy current to enable us sustain life, the pureset form of such Energy is Sex energy which is used by living beings to further propage their life-form. Some other parts of energy are used in thinking process. We can greatly benefit ourselves even from these tiny releases, by pointing out thoughts to the supreme soul, keeping good thoughts...positive thoughts and constructive thought...this will further increase the release of energy. Kundalini is always vibrating on Fifty basic sounds which originated from AUM....and by using different Mantras, we allow our being to resonate with Kundalini on that particular frequency. Hari Aum , de_spell_2000 <no_reply> wrote: > Does this mean that the kundalini can rise, go through the chakras > and fully awaken, even when the effects of past karmas are not > neutralized? > > Kundalini can fully rise even when the person has desires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2002 Report Share Posted April 2, 2002 Thanks muchly Silentsoulji for expanding on this topic. I agree with you that Kundalini rising is not the end-all of spiritual enlightenment. We must remember, too, that Kundalini occasionally rises spontaneously (or, it rises without our direct attempt for such). It is not common, nor is it fun. To be blunt, it is scary, especially when one doesn't quite know what is happening. I think it is important to note for the women, too, that Kundalini/shakti energy can be a very powerful and healing experience for us in particular. It is amazing what we can do when we harness the female energy within, as well as without. With love, Erica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2002 Report Share Posted April 3, 2002 Om silentsoul It does not seem likely that your great soul is correct in his theory "that Kundalini has 3 fixed places..Muladhaara, Heart chakra and sahasradhara, implying if kundalini reaches Heart chakra it will rest there for ever but if it goes upto say Manipuraka chakra...it will fall down to Muladhara again... From heart chakra it has next platform at Sahasradhara...before it, it will fall down to heart chakra". History is littered with highly evolved souls whose kundalini had reached the heart chakra and beyond, but who, nevertheless, succumbed to pride, greed, and/or lust and lost whatever spiritual attainment they had managed to acquire. These fallen gurus are an instructive lesson for us all. Om namah Sivaya Omprem , silentsoul_55 <no_reply> wrote: > Tks ompremji, I am also of the view that Kundalini arising is not > the final goal (though it can be called a threshold to the final > TRUTH). However, i may say that kundalini rises upto Agya Chakra > only till the Karmas and desires are there and it only reaches > Sahasardhara, when all desires and karma are > fulfilled/controlled...and once it reaches there it burns even the > seed of old karma and sankaras and it is from sahasradhara, that > kundalini does not return to Muladhaara. One great soul told me once > that Kundalini has 3 fixed places..Muladhaara, Heart chakra and > sahasradhara, implying if kundalini reaches Heart chakra it will rest > there for ever but if it goes upto say Manipuraka chakra...it will > fall down to Muladhara again... From heart chakra it has next > platform at Sahasradhara...before it, it will fall down to heart > chakra....Well i cant say it with authority, as i have no experience > of this yet. Just another view!! > > And dear de-spell kundalini does arise even if we have desires > and past karma...it is,in fact, awakening of kundalini which gives us > enough power to control our desires...create a positive will power in > us. (Jagran means awakening). > > In Tantra and some shakta mantras, it was possible to awaken > kundalini even if the sadhka had lot of bad desires...the force of > Kundalini was used to fulfil their EGO and we have the concept of > Asura/demons. It is said Lord Shiva "Locked" Tantra exercises and > most of shakta mantras so that they are not misused by Asura minded > people and the key to this lock is with very-very few numbers of > great souls (Like Baba ji -of Autobiography of yogi for example), who > only help those raise the kundalini, who have purified themselves and > are fit to use it for positive purpose. > > However, with some exercises, kundalini still rises upto certain > level giving extreme will-power and energy to the person concerned. > If the person uses it for positive aspects (like Mother terressa > e.g.), those souls are given opportunity to raise it further in next > birth...and those who use it for Negativity (like Hitler e.g.) they > are used by Mother Nature as toys to destroy and are finally are > destroyed themselves. > > Kundalini, even in common person releases some energy current to > enable us sustain life, the pureset form of such Energy is Sex energy > which is used by living beings to further propage their life-form. > Some other parts of energy are used in thinking process. We can > greatly benefit ourselves even from these tiny releases, by pointing > out thoughts to the supreme soul, keeping good thoughts...positive > thoughts and constructive thought...this will further increase the > release of energy. > > Kundalini is always vibrating on Fifty basic sounds which > originated from AUM....and by using different Mantras, we allow our > being to resonate with Kundalini on that particular frequency. > > > Hari Aum > > > , de_spell_2000 <no_reply> wrote: > > Does this mean that the kundalini can rise, go through the chakras > > and fully awaken, even when the effects of past karmas are not > > neutralized? > > > > Kundalini can fully rise even when the person has desires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2002 Report Share Posted April 3, 2002 Many thoughts have been expressed on this topic. I am adding a bit to it too. Prana is the cosmic energy that underlies each and every thing in the universe. It is the life force that gives life to all. It is the real "food" which we need to stay alive. In my language when one dies one says, "the prana has left". Like the circulatory system carries blood all over the body, fed by arteries and veins, our energy body (subtle body) is made up of nadis (Shiva Samhita refers to 350,000 nadis), nadikas (small nadis) and nadichakras, which distribute prana throughout the body. Prana may be received directly from cosmic sources, (through meditative techniques), through nature, or indirectly through food and even from other beings. It may be absorbed through the rest of the physical body or directly by the Chakras themselves. It is the absorbtion of Prana that rejuvinates us when one is around mountains, forests, large bodies of water, or a Realized soul. There are some Realized souls who were/are able to get all the Prana needed to live from direct sources and did not need any food. The absorption of prana from other people is what was presented in a dramatized form in "Celestial Prophecies" by James Redfield. The flow of Prana through our bodies gets restricted due to the blocks created by one's karmic baggages of desires, wants, attitudes and temperaments, all of which translate into energy blocks. A realized soul is successful in removing such blocks, prana flows freely and is thus able to reflect pure light. When we do spiritual healing, like that taught by the Vietnamese Master Choa Kuk Sui, we are taught to find such blocks and intervene directly at those points. Accupuncture, accupressure, marma therapy, reiki etc, all use the same principles, each going to different levels of the subtle body. These blocks are created and maintianedkept in place by our vasanas and samskaras, (desires and attitudes) which is why, Master insisted on spiritual work to be done together with the healing. Kundalini is however the latent Divine energy present in all beings. It sits at the base of the sushuma, one of the three principle nadis, coiled three and half times, each coil representing, the states of consciouness - wake, dream and deep sleep, and the fourth half coil being Turiya or transcendant which is attained during Samadhi. It used to be called 'fire" earlier, reprensting its rise through the sushuma burning away all impurities. One can raise the Kundalini through the practice of any form of Yoga sadhna. Samadhi is not something that happens again and again, it is considered Virtual death, where there is total Cessation of consciousness (Chitta Vritti laya). In meditative practices one can feel the awareness withdrawing from rest of the body, and concentrating on the center. One has to be trained to be able to return to consciouness. One can learn to raise Kundalini without being totaly realized, but a realized being always has/his her kundalini awakened. No matter what the path is, self-realization leads to this effect at the energy level. _/\_ Tat twam asi Uma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2002 Report Share Posted April 4, 2002 Tks Tatwamasi. It was a beautiful piece of information on Kundalini. when you wrote "One can learn to raise Kundalini without being totaly realized, but a realized being always has/his her kundalini awakened. No matter what the path is, self-realization leads to this effect at the energy level." You gave a clear idea of birth of Asura. Kundalini is like atomic power and it is not necessary that only god-seeking people can get it aroused. arousal of kundalini alone is not sufficient for self realisation and you have beautifully explained this. about the clearing of chakras by accupuncture etc. dont you think that it will be a symptomatic treatment ? Would it not be better to eradicate the very root of the bloackage? What i mean to ask is if it is necessary for a sadhaka to clear his chakra by these temporary means, or should he just go for his sadhna and let the chakra get cleaned automatically. .....what would be better ?? Hari AUM -- In , "tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote: > Many thoughts have been expressed on this topic. I am adding a bit to > it too. > > Prana is the cosmic energy that underlies each and every thing in the > universe. It is the life force that gives life to all. It is the > real "food" which we need to stay alive. In my language when one dies > one says, "the prana has left". > > Like the circulatory system carries blood all over the body, fed by > arteries and veins, our energy body (subtle body) is made up of nadis > (Shiva Samhita refers to 350,000 nadis), nadikas (small nadis) and > nadichakras, which distribute prana throughout the body. Prana may be > received directly from cosmic sources, (through meditative > techniques), through nature, or indirectly through food and even > from other beings. It may be absorbed through the rest of the > physical body or directly by the Chakras themselves. It is the > absorbtion of Prana that rejuvinates us when one is around mountains, > forests, large bodies of water, or a Realized soul. There are some > Realized souls who were/are able to get all the Prana needed to live > from direct sources and did not need any food. The absorption of > prana from other people is what was presented in a dramatized form > in "Celestial Prophecies" by James Redfield. > > The flow of Prana through our bodies gets restricted due to the > blocks created by one's karmic baggages of desires, wants, attitudes > and temperaments, all of which translate into energy blocks. A > realized soul is successful in removing such blocks, prana flows > freely and is thus able to reflect pure light. When we do spiritual > healing, like that taught by the Vietnamese Master Choa Kuk Sui, we > are taught to find such blocks and intervene directly at those > points. Accupuncture, accupressure, marma therapy, reiki etc, all use > the same principles, each going to different levels of the subtle > body. These blocks are created and maintianedkept in place by our > vasanas and samskaras, (desires and attitudes) which is why, Master > insisted on spiritual work to be done together with the healing. > > Kundalini is however the latent Divine energy present in all beings. > It sits at the base of the sushuma, one of the three principle nadis, > coiled three and half times, each coil representing, the states of > consciouness - wake, dream and deep sleep, and the fourth half coil > being Turiya or transcendant which is attained during Samadhi. It > used to be called 'fire" earlier, reprensting its rise through the > sushuma burning away all impurities. One can raise the Kundalini > through the practice of any form of Yoga sadhna. > > Samadhi is not something that happens again and again, it is > considered Virtual death, where there is total Cessation of > consciousness (Chitta Vritti laya). In meditative practices one can > feel the awareness withdrawing from rest of the body, and > concentrating on the center. One has to be trained to be able to > return to consciouness. One can learn to raise Kundalini without > being totaly realized, but a realized being always has/his her > kundalini awakened. No matter what the path is, self-realization > leads to this effect at the energy level. > > > _/\_ Tat twam asi > > Uma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2002 Report Share Posted April 7, 2002 >>Would it not be better to eradicate the very root of the bloackage? What i mean to ask is if it is necessary for a sadhaka to clear his chakra by these temporary means, or should he just go for his sadhna and let the chakra get cleaned automatically. .....what would be better ??>> Yes, as I mentioned in my post, Master Choa Kuk Sui recommends a combination of such temporal measures with more permanent ones which root out the causes of the disease. Since disease in this model, like the principles of Ayurveda, is considered psychosomatic, it is not possible to remove disease without working at the root level. I have personally watched the power of Pranic Healing of bringing people away from the operating tables, or removing symtoms of major diseases. The problem which I have also seen, is that many people are unwilling to make the effort required to make the personal changes in their living and are looking for quick fixes and external solutions. Conscious living or changing attitudes which are harmful and hurtful are not easy. The first step in fact is often the hardest; acknowledging that we are co-creators of our state of dis-ease! Sadhna as in meditation techniques or puja rituals are extremely important instruments in removing the root causes of disease. This has to be accompanied by application of the principles being inbibed in ones sadhna to be able to make it completely effective. People are of course free to choose the path they wish. Whether they want a combination of healing, spiritual practices and conscious living or just one or two of these, all determine the rate at which they remove the blocks to their self- realization. Ultimately, of course, it is past baggage that determines what is likely to be effective or not. As in medical sciences, the same procedure may work wonders in one while fail in another. _/\_ Tat twam asi Uma ********************************************* This is a reply to post 3631 by silentsoul_55 ********************************************* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2002 Report Share Posted April 8, 2002 My mother asked me a question lately when I read to her the postings of the club about kundalini. She has been doing intensive sadhna since 10 years and she was wondering why she has had so many problems with meditation. She mentioned that even though she had very nice dreams with wondeful melodies and OBEs, since she started sadhna she stopped having nice dreams and OBEs and she had only nightmares. I told her that its weird as people usually become more consious of the sleep when they start to meditate, but it might have to do with the chakras being cleared perhaps. Any comments? Another thing that I would like to ask is about raising the kundalini through external means. Is this actually OK? When I say external means I mean for example hatha yoga etc or especially that a yogi raises the kundalini of a person so that the person can meditate easily. There are schools of kundalini yoga where the teacher uses his psychic powers to raise the kundalini of the student. It is something really attractive because who wouldnt prefer to do this, instead of struggling alone and working hard in meditation? But my question is, is it good? without any dangers whatsoever? PS: The chat was really wonderful last saturday about truth. I am looking forward to the next chat! Namaste! , "tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote: > >>Would it not be better to eradicate the very root of the > bloackage? What i mean to ask is if it is necessary for a sadhaka to > clear his chakra by these temporary means, or should he just go for > his sadhna and let the chakra get cleaned automatically. .....what > would be better ??>> > > Yes, as I mentioned in my post, Master Choa Kuk Sui recommends a > combination of such temporal measures with more permanent ones which > root out the causes of the disease. Since disease in this model, like > the principles of Ayurveda, is considered psychosomatic, it is not > possible to remove disease without working at the root level. > > I have personally watched the power of Pranic Healing of bringing > people away from the operating tables, or removing symtoms of major > diseases. The problem which I have also seen, is that many people are > unwilling to make the effort required to make the personal changes in > their living and are looking for quick fixes and external solutions. > Conscious living or changing attitudes which are harmful and hurtful > are not easy. The first step in fact is often the hardest; > acknowledging that we are co-creators of our state of dis-ease! > > Sadhna as in meditation techniques or puja rituals are extremely > important instruments in removing the root causes of disease. This > has to be accompanied by application of the principles being inbibed > in ones sadhna to be able to make it completely effective. > > People are of course free to choose the path they wish. Whether they > want a combination of healing, spiritual practices and conscious > living or just one or two of these, all determine the rate at which > they remove the blocks to their self- realization. Ultimately, of > course, it is past baggage that determines what is likely to be > effective or not. As in medical sciences, the same procedure may work > wonders in one while fail in another. > > _/\_ Tat twam asi > > Uma > > > ********************************************* > This is a reply to post 3631 by silentsoul_55 > ********************************************* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2002 Report Share Posted April 8, 2002 Some good questions, and I would like to say on dreams that when I have very intense meditations I usually also have bad dreams. It does in fact have to do with karma. You see, only through incurring with the mind that which is beyond the mind does one free oneself from karma. When one frees from karma one sometimes feels an external darkness which is the karma now separated from you. All karma feels dark even the good karma because they are all bondage. So one feels like a dark force is trying to get you. It really is just karma trying to get back to you but it feels black because well it is. Sadhana is clear and beyond gunas. When gunas try to get back at you even sattva guna feels dark. Dreams are when mind is most care free and symbols will make these ideas more clear. Noone wants karmas back when study of God/dess has set them free. People therefore dream of death dying, shit, dirt, hate, all the things that have been let go of. It is ok. It's just dreams. They were just stress release anyway. the only reason she might even care is there is more awareness now so she sees wher dreams more completely. Take all shaktipat you can get and worry in your next life if it was too much. - de_spell_2000 Monday, April 08, 2002 2:23 PM Re: Kundalini ?? My mother asked me a question lately when I read to her the postings of the club about kundalini. She has been doing intensive sadhna since 10 years and she was wondering why she has had so many problems with meditation. She mentioned that even though she had very nice dreams with wondeful melodies and OBEs, since she started sadhna she stopped having nice dreams and OBEs and she had only nightmares. I told her that its weird as people usually become more consious of the sleep when they start to meditate, but it might have to do with the chakras being cleared perhaps. Any comments? Another thing that I would like to ask is about raising the kundalini through external means. Is this actually OK? When I say external means I mean for example hatha yoga etc or especially that a yogi raises the kundalini of a person so that the person can meditate easily. There are schools of kundalini yoga where the teacher uses his psychic powers to raise the kundalini of the student. It is something really attractive because who wouldnt prefer to do this, instead of struggling alone and working hard in meditation? But my question is, is it good? without any dangers whatsoever? PS: The chat was really wonderful last saturday about truth. I am looking forward to the next chat! Namaste! , "tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote: > >>Would it not be better to eradicate the very root of the > bloackage? What i mean to ask is if it is necessary for a sadhaka to > clear his chakra by these temporary means, or should he just go for > his sadhna and let the chakra get cleaned automatically. .....what > would be better ??>> > > Yes, as I mentioned in my post, Master Choa Kuk Sui recommends a > combination of such temporal measures with more permanent ones which > root out the causes of the disease. Since disease in this model, like > the principles of Ayurveda, is considered psychosomatic, it is not > possible to remove disease without working at the root level. > > I have personally watched the power of Pranic Healing of bringing > people away from the operating tables, or removing symtoms of major > diseases. The problem which I have also seen, is that many people are > unwilling to make the effort required to make the personal changes in > their living and are looking for quick fixes and external solutions. > Conscious living or changing attitudes which are harmful and hurtful > are not easy. The first step in fact is often the hardest; > acknowledging that we are co-creators of our state of dis-ease! > > Sadhna as in meditation techniques or puja rituals are extremely > important instruments in removing the root causes of disease. This > has to be accompanied by application of the principles being inbibed > in ones sadhna to be able to make it completely effective. > > People are of course free to choose the path they wish. Whether they > want a combination of healing, spiritual practices and conscious > living or just one or two of these, all determine the rate at which > they remove the blocks to their self- realization. Ultimately, of > course, it is past baggage that determines what is likely to be > effective or not. As in medical sciences, the same procedure may work > wonders in one while fail in another. > > _/\_ Tat twam asi > > Uma > > > ********************************************* > This is a reply to post 3631 by silentsoul_55 > ********************************************* Sponsor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2002 Report Share Posted April 9, 2002 As i wrote in my earlier post Dreams and sadhna, Dreams do play an important role in the life of sadhka. For every person, the old karma are arranged in such a way that those karma, for which this life has been awarded remain on the surface to give fruits and other karma which are not yet ripe remain inactive in the sub-conscious. These inactive portions only surface when there is sudden change in circumstances and these sanskaras are needed to act. However in the life of a sadhka, when Sushumna is trying to open and when Kundalini starts sending pure energy currents into Sushumna nadi, the setting of vrittis/sanskaras change. As a natural process, all the seeds of karma which have to give bad results start surfacing fast, as if attracted by the pure energy of the kundalini. This phenomenon is called purification. When these bad vrittis surface up and are destroyed by the pure energy of kundalini, they disintegrate giving out harful toxins...thus giving unexplained illness or even some very common problems like itching of body or indigestion or bad cold/flu etc. Most of the Hathha yoga exercise contorl these toxins through yoga asanaas etc. Now there are some smaller vrittis which have to give small bad results, they need not produce harmful toxins and are destroyed in dreams. The mental tension, the fear etc which one was destined to undergo in real life, is changed into dream and the mind feels these fears, tensions, sorrows in the dream. Hence each bad dream seen by a sadhaka is in fact destruction of small real life tragedy. When sadhana becomes intensified and when kundalini starts sending large amount of pure energies into the system, even the bigger sanskaras are destroyed in dreams. Dreams of the nature of seeing monsters following us, or seeing ourselves attacked or burnt or injured clearly indicate that such a bad vritti has been destroyed and it can be taken as a sign of progress by the sadhaka. This purification process is not time-bound. The more the sadhana, the more will be purification. Bad sansakaras from many other births (which otherwise could have stayed silently) start surfacing up. This phenomenon is the reason behind many questions as to why good people suffer more. a sadhaka's whole life goes into purification and if he is not correctly analyzing them and is reacting to these purifications, in a wrong way, he would create more bad sanskaras. A Bhakta is normally saved from this position, as he takes all what he is getting as LOve of the divine and does not react towards a person for his woes. A gyani understands the chemistry of his woes, and remains unattached. If a guru is present, he would guide the disciple in this regard and will save him from further woes. Bad vrittis and negative energies are more powerful always though shortlived. It is not easy to get rid of them without undergoing their punishment. As per Hindu philosophy there is no escape from the punishment. Even Incarnations of god had to undergo this punishment in human life. But our sadhna can dilute the results....and seeing bad dreams by a sadhka is in fact a dilution of such sin, and its reduced punishment. Hari AUM , "Sidha_Ho" <sidaho@h...> wrote: > Some good questions, and I would like to say on dreams that when I have very intense meditations I usually also have bad dreams. It does in fact have to do with karma. You see, only through incurring with the mind that which is beyond the mind does one free oneself from karma. When one frees from karma one sometimes feels an external darkness which is the karma now separated from you. All karma feels dark even the good karma because they are all bondage. So one feels like a dark force is trying to get you. It really is just karma trying to get back to you but it feels black because well it is. Sadhana is clear and beyond gunas. When gunas try to get back at you even sattva guna feels dark. Dreams are when mind is most care free and symbols will make these ideas more clear. Noone wants karmas back when study of God/dess has set them free. People therefore dream of death dying, shit, dirt, hate, all the things that have been let go of. It is ok. It's just dreams. They were just stress release anyway. the only reason she might even care is there is more awareness now so she sees wher dreams more completely. > > Take all shaktipat you can get and worry in your next life if it was too much. > - > de_spell_2000 > > Monday, April 08, 2002 2:23 PM > Re: Kundalini ?? > > > My mother asked me a question lately when I read to her the postings > of the club about kundalini. She has been doing intensive sadhna > since 10 years and she was wondering why she has had so many problems > with meditation. She mentioned that even though she had very nice > dreams with wondeful melodies and OBEs, since she started sadhna she > stopped having nice dreams and OBEs and she had only nightmares. I > told her that its weird as people usually become more consious of the > sleep when they start to meditate, but it might have to do with the > chakras being cleared perhaps. Any comments? > > Another thing that I would like to ask is about raising the kundalini > through external means. Is this actually OK? When I say external > means I mean for example hatha yoga etc or especially that a yogi > raises the kundalini of a person so that the person can meditate > easily. There are schools of kundalini yoga where the teacher uses > his psychic powers to raise the kundalini of the student. It is > something really attractive because who wouldnt prefer to do this, > instead of struggling alone and working hard in meditation? But my > question is, is it good? without any dangers whatsoever? > > PS: The chat was really wonderful last saturday about truth. I am > looking forward to the next chat! > > Namaste! > > , "tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote: > > >>Would it not be better to eradicate the very root of the > > bloackage? What i mean to ask is if it is necessary for a sadhaka > to > > clear his chakra by these temporary means, or should he just go for > > his sadhna and let the chakra get cleaned automatically. .....what > > would be better ??>> > > > > Yes, as I mentioned in my post, Master Choa Kuk Sui recommends a > > combination of such temporal measures with more permanent ones > which > > root out the causes of the disease. Since disease in this model, > like > > the principles of Ayurveda, is considered psychosomatic, it is not > > possible to remove disease without working at the root level. > > > > I have personally watched the power of Pranic Healing of bringing > > people away from the operating tables, or removing symtoms of major > > diseases. The problem which I have also seen, is that many people > are > > unwilling to make the effort required to make the personal changes > in > > their living and are looking for quick fixes and external > solutions. > > Conscious living or changing attitudes which are harmful and > hurtful > > are not easy. The first step in fact is often the hardest; > > acknowledging that we are co-creators of our state of dis-ease! > > > > Sadhna as in meditation techniques or puja rituals are extremely > > important instruments in removing the root causes of disease. This > > has to be accompanied by application of the principles being > inbibed > > in ones sadhna to be able to make it completely effective. > > > > People are of course free to choose the path they wish. Whether > they > > want a combination of healing, spiritual practices and conscious > > living or just one or two of these, all determine the rate at which > > they remove the blocks to their self- realization. Ultimately, of > > course, it is past baggage that determines what is likely to be > > effective or not. As in medical sciences, the same procedure may > work > > wonders in one while fail in another. > > > > _/\_ Tat twam asi > > > > Uma > > > > > > ********************************************* > > This is a reply to post 3631 by silentsoul_55 > > ********************************************* > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > - > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.