Guru

[Guest guest]

Namaste all,

 

I know the subject of guru has been dicussed at great length here in

our club. I have kept quiet (on this subject at least )until now,

as I do not identify as having a guru per se'.

 

I recently purchased the audio cassette series entitled "Pilgrim of

the Heart" (Can be purchased online here:

http://store./soundstruestore/pilgrimofheart.html). This is

a two-tape session, on which Krishna Das tells stories about his

experiences in India with his guru, Neem Karoli Baba, and how his

experiences have shaped his life. I have found this series to be

extremely moving; KD has quite a bit of insight and I can feel his

love through his words. Since the tapes came in the mail a week ago,

I've listened to the three-hour session probably four or five times

through.

 

Today while walking outside, I was listening to the tapes again, and

something that KD said really struck me. He talks about the last

time he saw his guru in the body, and his journey since then. KD

says that while he was in India, touching Maharajji's foot, he was a

million miles away. But since he has left the body, KD feels his

guru always. He had to experience finding his guru, being in his

presence, and then losing his bodily presence to really be able to

realize that guru is always within.

 

Isn't it possible that some have experienced finding the guru, and

then losing the guru in our previous bodies? And now we are seeking

to find the guru within? Does it have to all occur in one lifetime?

 

I understand that many folks feel that having a guru's guidance is

essential, but can it not be said that it is not essential for all?

 

Just my thoughts...

 

With much love and respect,

Erica

[Guest guest]

Namaste Erica,

 

Before saying anything, I'll first quote some QnAs of Ramana Maharshi.

 

Question: Some people reported you to have said that there was no

need for a Guru. Others gave the opposite report. What does Maharshi

say?

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi: I have never said that there is no need for a

Guru.

 

Questioner: Sri Aurobindo and others refer to you as having had no

Guru.

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi: It all depends on what you call a Guru. He need

not be in a human form. Dattatreya had twenty-four Gurus including

the five elements- earth, water, etc. Every object in this world was

his Guru.

 

The Guru is absolutely necessary. The Upanishads say that none but a

Guru can take a man out of the jungle of intellect and sense

perceptions. So there must be a Guru.

 

Questioner: I mean a human Guru- Maharshi did not have one.

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi: I might have had one at one time or other. But

did I not sing hymns to Arunachala? What is a Guru? Guru is God or

the Self. First a man prays to God to fulfil his desires. A time

comes when he will no more pray for the fulfilment of material

desires but for God Himself. God then appears to him in some form or

other, human or non-human, to guide him to Himself in answer to his

prayer and according to his needs.

 

---------------------------

 

Guru literally means dispeller of darkness, and here darkness

signifies ignorance.

Let's look at an illustration:

If we eed to get a degree, we straight away cannot go to college. We

have to start from Kindergarten, progress year by year, and finally

land up in college.

 

Imagine studying from KG to 12th Grade without a teacher !!! Can

anyone study without the help of a teacher ? It may be possible when

they are in college, but it's definitely NOT possible when they are

in kindergarten, or in school (pre-degree).

 

Well, if a teacher is necessary for just worldly knowledge, then what

about spiritual knowledge? A Guru is necessary as long as there is

ignorance.

 

>>Isn't it possible that some have experienced finding the guru, and

then losing the guru in our previous bodies? And now we are seeking

to find the guru within? Does it have to all occur in one lifetime? <<

 

True, it is indeed possible that one might have had a Guru in the

past life, and is now seeking for the Guru within. Spirituality is

NOT a one life-time process. It is a process that involves many

lifetimes. Hence, your present knowledge could be a continuation of

your past life. You need not have an external guru. You also need

not have a human Guru. But definitely one needs some form of a Guru

or the other.

 

(Some ppl have people who do not have their physical bodies (like

Ramana Maharshi, or Swami Vivekananda, or Ramakrishna Paramahamsa) as

their Guru.)

 

>>I understand that many folks feel that having a guru's guidance is

essential, but can it not be said that it is not essential for all? <<

 

True a Guru is not essential for people who are NOT in ignorance.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

I would like to quote from a Book of Swami Sivananda-

(http://www.thedivinelifesociety.org/download/gurutattva.htm)

 

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

The Need For A Guru

For a beginner in the spiritual path, a Guru is necessary. To light a

candle, you need a burning candled Even so, an illumined soul alone

can enlighten another soul.

 

Some do meditation for some years independently. Later on, they

actually feel the necessity for a Guru. They come across some

obstacles in the way. They do not know how to obviate these

impediments or stumbling blocks. Then they begin to search for a

Master.

 

Only the man who has already been to Badrinath will be able to tell

you the road leading to it. In the case of the spiritual path, it is

still more difficult to find your way. The mind will mislead you very

often. The Guru will be able to remove pitfalls and obstacles, and

lead you along the right path. He will tell you:

This road leads you to Moksha; this one leads to bondage.Without this

guidance, you might want to go to Badrinath, but find yourself in

Delhi!

 

The scriptures are like a forest. There are ambiguous passages. There

are passages that are apparently contradictory and others that have

esoteric meanings, diverse significance and hidden explanations.

There are cross references. You are in need of a Guru or Preceptor

who will explain to you the right meaning, who will remove doubts and

ambiguities, who will place before you the essence of the teachings.

 

A Guru is absolutely necessary for every aspirant in the spiritual

path. It is only the Guru who will find out your defects. The nature

of egoism is such that you will not be able to find out your own

defects. Just as a man cannot see his back, so also he cannot see his

own errors. He must live under a Guru for the eradication of his evil

qualities and defects.

 

The aspirant who is under the guidance of a Master or Guru is safe

from being led astray. Satsanga or association with the Guru is an

armour and fortress to guard you against all temptations and

unfavourable forces of the material world.

 

Cases of those who had attained perfection without study under any

Guru should not be cited as authoritative against the necessity for a

Guru; for, such great men are the anomalies of spiritual life, and

not the common normality. They come into existence as spiritual

masters as a result of the intense service, study and meditation

practised in previous births. They had already studied under the

Guru. The present birth is only its continuative spiritual effect.

Hence, the importance of the Guru is not lessened thereby.

 

Some teachers mislead their aspirants. They say to all: Think for

yourself. Do not surrender yourself to any Guru. When one says, Do

not follow any Gurus, he intends to be the listeners' Guru himself.

Do not approach such pseudo-Gurus. Do not hear their lectures.

 

All great ones had their teachers. All the sages, saints, prophets,

world teachers, incarnations, great men have had their own Gurus,

however great they might have been. Svetaketu learnt the nature of

Truth from Uddalaka, Maitreyi from Yajnavalkya, Bhrigu from Varuna,

Narada from Sanatkumara, Nachiketas from Yama, Indra from Prajapati;

and several others humbly went to wise ones, observed strict

Brahmacharya, practised rigorous discipline, and learnt Brahma-Vidya

from them.

 

Lord Krishna sat at the feet of His Guru Sandipani. Lord Rama had

Guru Vasishtha who gave Him Upadesa. Lord Jesus sought John to be

baptised by him on the banks of the river Jordan. Even Devas have

Brihaspati as their Guru. Even the greatest among the divine beings

sat at the feet of Guru Dakshinamurti.

 

A neophyte must have a personal Guru first. He cannot have God as

Guru to begin with. He must have a pure mind. He must have ethical

perfection. He must be intensely virtuous. He must be above body-

consciousness. Then alone can he have God as Guru.

 

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

 

 

 

Their is no doubt that ultimately SELF itself is the guru.Ramkrihna

used to say "Even after attaining GARCE of GURU,KRISHAN and Vaishnava

if you donot have Grace of MIND then you are nowhere"

 

Comming to the point about search of the guru I think As said by many

saints, when time is ripe guru will arrive in life because they

always wait for time to come. Once Raman maharishi was asked the

question that if some one chose a GURU and Guru left the body before

Sisya perfection, does he need to look for a new guru. his answer was

its not necessary Guidance will follow automatically. Similary quest

of guru is continuous one and probably it is part of spirtaul growth.

There are many instances when saints have gradually gone for new guru

for higher or absolute truth.

 

We see in life of Ramkrishna parmhansa that Guru of each major

religion tradition arrived

to his place and he gained the highest truth of each religion from

guru. though it was definetely symbolic for incarnation like

him.Jesus accepted JOHN, Krishna accepted sandipani muni, RAM

accepted Vashistha,viswamitra as master. Even God-incarnate accepts

GURU to show importance of GURU in spirtual life though he is always

complete

 

In Life of almost all the spirtual masters I found meeting GURU is a

very interesting part of their life story. In autobiography of a yogi

we see that though Yogananda requested Master mahasaya(disccipline of

ramkrishana) to accept him as sisya he said that he will arrive in

his life after sometime. This also indicate that Great master always

work in sync towards the same goal and the relation of master-

aspirant goes beyond single life.In autobiography of yogi there is

another story of a western devotee we attended Swami vivekananda

lecture in USA and requested him to accept him as sisya but he said

that I am not your guru , your guru will give you silver cup and

later this came true in strange way when yogananda became his master

 

Equally dramatic is the meeting of Neema karoli baba and richard

alpine(ramdass). After getting frustated with search of guru

througout world he finds baba in a very interesting way in India with

Krishna Das( As written in BE HERE NOW by RAMDASS)

 

Most of US find it difficult to stick to one particular master,and

probably that is also part of our journey. It is said that once u

meet GURU ur sixth sense will tell you that you are home and search

is over. spirtual baby is born and spirtual life begin after that.

Paramhansa Yogananda, when meet his guru Sri Yukateshwar first time,

he did not thought that

he was his master. He even went to study under another guru after

that but when time came he realised that Yukteswar is his real master.

 

Swami vivekananda after Ramkrishna samadhi went to accept PAWHARI

BABA as his GURU, but story goes that within weeks he realised that

no one can replace the position of RAMKRISHNA from his heart.

 

Swami satyananda jee maharaj was a great saint in Northen india. He

was orphane at the age of 10. He accepted JAINISM at the age of 19

and became jain MUNI. As per jain religion he used to disapprove

existence of GOD. He found a small spirtual book and thought may be

he can try another path for some time. when he did sadhna based on

that book he had some great experience. After that he left Jainism ,

though he was considered great saint in that religion. He accepted

HINDU ARYA SAMAJ at the age of 29. He was considered a great siant in

arya samaj too. while doing sadhna he realised absolute truth in the

form of RAMA NAMA. He wrote a book bhakti prakash in praise of name

of RAM. This book was opposit to the view of ARYA samaj where he

belonged that time. After Arya samaj told him to remove the word Ram

from book and replace with OM which he refused and left ARYA SAMAJ

too after serving for 20 years. He accepted Name of RAM as his guru

last and remained in that path till he attained samadhi.

 

To my understanding his life says that search for guru and search for

GOD is not different.

When we find path,journey becomes enjoyable and its just matter of

time.

 

 

There were some spirtaul gaints who does not have any known GURU in

life. Mother anadamayi , raman maharishi, Neema karoli baba, babajee

to name a few. but Probably their spirtual life is beyond our

comprehension. They were born perfect as Mother anandamayi used to

say--

"

I Have no need of doing or saying anything, there never was any need,

neither is now, nor will there ever be in future. What u see now and

what will be observed in future is only for the good of you all.....

"

 

To answer one of the question of devotee MA once answered-

 

Question: First show me God, and then I shall worship Him.

 

Ma:So you will start doing sadhana, only after God appears to you? In

order to find Him you must pray and serve Him. Never give up your

worship and adoration until you realize Him. Proceed exactly as the

Guru instructs you.

 

Question:The Guru utters such beautiful words; why does God not speak?

 

Ma:This is why you must take on a Guru. The instructions showing man

the path of service to God have to be obeyed. If they are carried out

to the full without reasoning, then God cannot help but become

accessible to the seeker. God is ever Self-revealed. All these people

are God's own vigrahas, God's concrete external Presence as Form.

 

Question:How can one avoid the distress caused by a calamity?

 

Ma: Listen to the advice of your Guru. By doing so; what is to be

destroyed will be done away with and what can never be destroyed,

namely God, Truth, THAT will be revealed to you.

[Guest guest]

Jaya Sri Radhey!

 

Namaste. Happy auspicious GURU Vaar to all sadhaks.

 

'gurur brahmA gurur viSNur gururdevo mahezvaraH

gurur eva paraM brahma tasmai zrI gurave namaH'

 

The Guru (preceptor) is no other than Lord Brahma,

the cosmic creator.

The Guru is no other than Lord Vishnu,

the maintainer and preserver of the cosmic universe.

The Guru is no other than Lord Shiva,

the annihilator of the cosmic creation.

The Guru is verily the Supreme Brahman,

the Universal Soul Itself.

I offer my humble obeisance to the Divine Preceptor.

 

'ajnAna timirAndhasya jnAnAJjana zalAkayA

cakSur unmIlitaM yena tasmai zrI gurave namaH'

 

I bow down to the Divine Master,

Who by the application of the collyrium

of transcendental knowledge,

opens the divine eye of one blinded

by the disease of Maya and ignorance.

 

'akhaNDa maNDal AkAraM vyAptaM yena carAcarm,

tat padaM darzitaM yena tasmai zrI gurave namaH'

 

I bow down to my Sri Guru,

Who bestows the state of realization of

the Supreme undivided Being that pervades

and permeates all the moving and non-moving.

 

'mannAthaH zrI jagannAtho madguruH zrI jagad guruH

mamAtmA sarva bhUtAtmA tasmai zrI gurave namaH'

 

My sincere salutations to the eternal Spiritual Master.

He is not only my Lord but also is the Supreme Lord of the universe.

He, my Divine Preceptor, is the Teacher of the entire universe.

He, the Supreme Soul of the universe alone is

pervading my individual soul.

 

(Visvasaara Tantra)

 

'vasudeva sutaM devaM kamsa cANUra mardanam

devakI paramAnandaM kRSNaM vande jagad guruM'

 

Humble prostrations to my Lord Sri Krishna,

the eternal Spiritual Master of the universe.

He is the darling Son of King Vasudeva.

He has destroyed the evil Kamsa and Canura.

He is the Supreme Joy of Mother Devaki devi.

 

Jaya Sri Radhey!

[Guest guest]

Jaya Sri Radhey! Sri Gurave Namah!!

 

Here is a poem, expressed by Saint Mahadevi of Vira Saivism, about

the Grace of Perfect Master,

 

"I received MY BIRTH at the hand of MY GURU;

 

I was nurtured by the KINDNESS of countless SARANAS (PURE DEVOTEES);

 

Lo, They fed me on the MILK of BHAVA, (Divine Sentiments) the GHEE of

TRUE KNOWLEDGE and SUGAR of PARAMARTHA (SUPREME GOAL)

 

On this THREEFOLD NECTAR did YOU feed and nourish me.

 

You gave me in MARRIAGE to a SUITABLE HUSBAND;

And now You have all gathered in countless numbers to send me to MY

HUSBAND'S HOME.

 

I shall SERVE MY LORD to the SATISFACTION of BASAVANNA (the Spiritual

Master);

 

Having taken the hand of Chenna Mallikarjuna (Lord Siva) IN MARRIAGE,

I SHALL BRING ONLY GLORY and NEVER SHAME to YOU.

 

Be assured of this and please go back, MY ELDERS.

 

MY SALUTATIONS to You!"

 

(Source- 'Saint Akka Mahadevi' from the book- 'Women Saints of East

and West)

 

Jaya Sri Radhey!

[Guest guest]

Jaya Sri Radhey! Namaste.

 

jaga viraag ho titanoyee,

jitanoyee hari anuraag!

taba ho hari anuraag jaba,

guru charanan mana laag!!

 

- Bhakti Shatak. 12, Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj

 

Hindi translation:

 

vaastavika guru ki sharanagati se hee

Sri Krishna me anuraag utpanna hotaa hai.

Jitani maatraa me yah anuraag hotaa hai utni hee

maatraa me sansaar se vairaagya bhi hotaa hai.

 

English:

 

True Love for God dawns only through the Divine Grace of a Rasik

Saint.

By taking full refuge in the lotus feet of God-realized genuine

Master,

the aspirant experiences Divine love.

The degree of seeker's detachment from the material world is directly

proportional to the intensity of her or his attachment for the

Lord.

 

 

Listen to the melodious chantings of the sublime verses of "Bhakti

Shatak" - "One Hundred Gems of Divine Love" composed by Jagadguru

Sri Rama Kripalu Maharaj Ji at:

 

http://jkp.org/home/home.html

 

Jaya Sri Radhey!

 

 

 

, pyari_h <no_reply> wrote:

> Jaya Sri Radhey! Sri Gurave Namah!!

>

> Here is a poem, expressed by Saint Mahadevi of Vira Saivism, about

> the Grace of Perfect Master,

>

> "I received MY BIRTH at the hand of MY GURU;

>

> I was nurtured by the KINDNESS of countless SARANAS (PURE

DEVOTEES);

>

> Lo, They fed me on the MILK of BHAVA, (Divine Sentiments) the GHEE

of

> TRUE KNOWLEDGE and SUGAR of PARAMARTHA (SUPREME GOAL)

>

> On this THREEFOLD NECTAR did YOU feed and nourish me.

>

> You gave me in MARRIAGE to a SUITABLE HUSBAND;

> And now You have all gathered in countless numbers to send me to MY

> HUSBAND'S HOME.

>

> I shall SERVE MY LORD to the SATISFACTION of BASAVANNA (the

Spiritual

> Master);

>

> Having taken the hand of Chenna Mallikarjuna (Lord Siva) IN

MARRIAGE,

> I SHALL BRING ONLY GLORY and NEVER SHAME to YOU.

>

> Be assured of this and please go back, MY ELDERS.

>

> MY SALUTATIONS to You!"

>

> (Source- 'Saint Akka Mahadevi' from the book- 'Women Saints of East

> and West)

>

> Jaya Sri Radhey!