Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 Dear Satish, Thank you for your response. I tend to get a little confused when I read these stories...is this Moses that the story is about? I was initiated by Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan into sufism in l99l. So I am somewhat familiar with some of the terms you are using before, but not sure I got the total gist of the story. Yes, all of creation is the Divine. I think I remember in reading something, maybe in Amma Anasuya Devi's words, something to the effect, that it is not that the Mother is Mother of Creation, but rather, Mother IS Creation!!! I would like to respond to your post, but may have to do it in several parts as the machine tends to shut me down after I have been too long on working on one post. There are some definitiations of 'avatar' that I looked up the other day that I would like to post on/about. I tend to agree with you, that words can get in the way, as well as arguments or even scholarly focus. It truly is about the heart, and worshipping from the depth of one's heart: this is what REALLY matters, what REALLY counts. As Karunamayi has said, the Mother looks for the purity in one's heart, and even tapas/meditations are not as important as this (or words to this effect). Reading this helped me tremendously, because I have been having difficulty meditating ever since the WTC tragedy. Also, I would like to post some of the words by Hazrat Inayat Khan (Sufi Master, and father of Pir Vilayat, who initiated me in l99l0, what he said to his mureeds many years ago. His talks were recorded by hand (they didn't have all the cassette recorders like we do, and oftentimes people who took notes either missed words or they heard things differently and the notes were not exactly the same, etc)...I would like to, if I can find, write some of the things Murshid (this is H.I.Khan, who was a Pir-O-Murshid, actually) said about saint, master, prophet, etc. So this is continued to my next post...Part II Blessings, Kathy -- In , safar_x <no_reply> wrote: > Dear Erica and Kathy, After having read overwhelming post of Dainya > Maduri, I am using the same page for posting this message. From a > posting from either of you, I was asked to post more from 2 to 3 > pages of the book I referred to. I shall do it for sure, but may be > after a wile. In this post I am going to narrate a story as given as > a supplement to "HOW A MASTER WORKS" by Ivy O.Duce, then Murshida of > Sufism re-oriented,USA. The story goes as follows:- > Famuos saint Moosa(Moses), is said to having direct conversation > from God; and this conversation was held daily from a secluded hill > top. One day while Hazrat Moosa was going to that particuler hill > top, he saw a poor man sitting the road side absorbed in some self > engrossed activity.He held a mud piece and was feebly uttering. "O! > Allah. If you meet me some day, I would not let you go before you > come to my hut and I shall feed you with my own hands, annoit you, > dress you, decorate you and pay a Namaz..." Hazrat Mossa's ears > caught these words,and he became very angree, thinking that this > wreched poor illetrate creater is insulting Allah, Who is so great > that He can not be limited to any worldly form. With a good notion > Hazrat admonished the fellow, and asked not to utter such words > of "Kufr". The poor man, with awe, agreed to and then Hazrat > proceeded for the hill top. That day hazrat kept waiting, but no > voice was heard by him from heavens. Next day too, Hazrat could not > get the oppartunity to hear to His Lord's vioice. Days passed on and > with passing of each day Hazrat's uneasyness increased. One day on > the hill top. he was in tears, and uttered, "o Allah! why dont you > talk to me now? I am feeling great agony". Sudenly avoice came from > the skyes, "All creation is Mine. O Hazrat! Blessed you are that you > have attained so much purity to have been able to talk to Me;But who > gave you authourity to tell the creatures of My creation as to how he > or she adores me?".... It is said that Hazrat was conferred God- > Realisation same day. > The purpose of this story post is to impress upon the "Love-God" > facter irrespective of who is/was/shall be God-Incarnate, or what is > correct about male and female bodies. Although, I have made a pledge > to post 3 to 4 pages from the book, i quoted,but wiuld certainly like > to know if any one of us in the group had acces to the book I > pointed ? > Lots of pure unadultereated LOVE > Satish > P.S. - I am still over powered by Dainya Maduri verses. Thanks for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 Dear Kathy, Blessed you are for having got initiation fron Vilayat Khan. If you may find the successive Mrshids and Murshids after Khan saheb himself, you are apt to find the name of Ivy Oneita Duce.She had written a volumenous book, i quoted before "how the master works" published by Sufism Reoriented,walnut creek, USA. In that book the story of Moses has been mentioned; but it is alligoric statement. May there have been no such incidence. Kathy, dont confuse,yourself, The gist of the story is that every soul has his or her own spititual connection which is predetermined according to his or her past immoressions( sanskaras) gathered iduring the process of attaining ahuman body.Thus a Path may be suitable to you, but another one for me. As for the "Mother" concept, Meher baba told that the term may not be assosiated to a female form in personal terms, but in immpersonal terms only.Any one, male or female, if gives birth to any form or formless atribute( like a painting by a painter, or lines of poetry by a poet), it is termed "mother". Yes "mother" aspect of the Divine is real creater, the second passive form of the Absolue( which has been tered as "purush..meaning a male), As per Sankhya school of Indian philosophy,This duality has vividly described. But, you are perfectly right when you say that main thing in the Path is Heart, not the Mind."Love" is a feeling of heart alone, independent of the Mind. It is therefore Avatar of the age, Meher Baba, has emphsised on "love" not "devote" God and try to see Him in every one and everywhere.The keynote is annihiliation of ego, and unconditional una dulterrated selfless "love" for God whoes seat is your innerself.That way I had said, every one of us is an avatar; illusion veils the truth and we began to be attach ourself. Beaware of this, and if you feel your helpless ness, remember God by any name of your inclination. soon I shall try to post other pages which you asked for, I am going outstation for a week.I am too happy to find your approach in a very divinely motivated direction. Ansy=uya amma.. and all others are to be taken as Masters of much higher plains of the conciousness, and they are full of love, compassion to all of us. They are never affected by our "beleif" in them, but they are contituously doing universal work for the uplifting human conciousness.... Kathy I have only Love to offer you so plese accept it lovingly, not as a preaching. As for I am comcerned, I am a most poor fellow in the Domain of spitituality Satish , celestial_saraswati <no_reply> wrote: > Dear Satish, > Thank you for your response. I tend to get a little confused when I > read these stories...is this Moses that the story is about? > I was initiated by Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan into sufism in l99l. So I > am somewhat familiar with some of the terms you are using before, but > not sure I got the total gist of the story. > > Yes, all of creation is the Divine. I think I remember in reading > something, maybe in Amma Anasuya Devi's words, something to the > effect, that it is not that the Mother is Mother of Creation, but > rather, Mother IS Creation!!! > > I would like to respond to your post, but may have to do it in > several parts as the machine tends to shut me down after I have been > too long on working on one post. There are some definitiations of > 'avatar' that I looked up the other day that I would like to post > on/about. > > I tend to agree with you, that words can get in the way, as well as > arguments or even scholarly focus. It truly is about the heart, and > worshipping from the depth of one's heart: this is what REALLY > matters, what REALLY counts. As Karunamayi has said, the Mother > looks for the purity in one's heart, and even tapas/meditations are > not as important as this (or words to this effect). Reading this > helped me tremendously, because I have been having difficulty > meditating ever since the WTC tragedy. > > Also, I would like to post some of the words by Hazrat Inayat Khan > (Sufi Master, and father of Pir Vilayat, who initiated me in l99l0, > what he said to his mureeds many years ago. His talks were recorded > by hand (they didn't have all the cassette recorders like we do, and > oftentimes people who took notes either missed words or they heard > things differently and the notes were not exactly the same, etc)...I > would like to, if I can find, write some of the things Murshid (this > is H.I.Khan, who was a Pir-O-Murshid, actually) said about saint, > master, prophet, etc. > > So this is continued to my next post...Part II > > Blessings, > Kathy > > > -- In , safar_x <no_reply> wrote: > > Dear Erica and Kathy, After having read overwhelming post of Dainya > > Maduri, I am using the same page for posting this message. From a > > posting from either of you, I was asked to post more from 2 to 3 > > pages of the book I referred to. I shall do it for sure, but may be > > after a wile. In this post I am going to narrate a story as given > as > > a supplement to "HOW A MASTER WORKS" by Ivy O.Duce, then Murshida > of > > Sufism re-oriented,USA. The story goes as follows:- > > Famuos saint Moosa(Moses), is said to having direct conversation > > from God; and this conversation was held daily from a secluded hill > > top. One day while Hazrat Moosa was going to that particuler hill > > top, he saw a poor man sitting the road side absorbed in some self > > engrossed activity.He held a mud piece and was feebly uttering. "O! > > Allah. If you meet me some day, I would not let you go before you > > come to my hut and I shall feed you with my own hands, annoit you, > > dress you, decorate you and pay a Namaz..." Hazrat Mossa's ears > > caught these words,and he became very angree, thinking that this > > wreched poor illetrate creater is insulting Allah, Who is so great > > that He can not be limited to any worldly form. With a good notion > > Hazrat admonished the fellow, and asked not to utter such words > > of "Kufr". The poor man, with awe, agreed to and then Hazrat > > proceeded for the hill top. That day hazrat kept waiting, but no > > voice was heard by him from heavens. Next day too, Hazrat could not > > get the oppartunity to hear to His Lord's vioice. Days passed on > and > > with passing of each day Hazrat's uneasyness increased. One day on > > the hill top. he was in tears, and uttered, "o Allah! why dont you > > talk to me now? I am feeling great agony". Sudenly avoice came from > > the skyes, "All creation is Mine. O Hazrat! Blessed you are that > you > > have attained so much purity to have been able to talk to Me;But > who > > gave you authourity to tell the creatures of My creation as to how > he > > or she adores me?".... It is said that Hazrat was conferred God- > > Realisation same day. > > The purpose of this story post is to impress upon the "Love-God" > > facter irrespective of who is/was/shall be God-Incarnate, or what > is > > correct about male and female bodies. Although, I have made a > pledge > > to post 3 to 4 pages from the book, i quoted,but wiuld certainly > like > > to know if any one of us in the group had acces to the book I > > pointed ? > > Lots of pure unadultereated LOVE > > Satish > > P.S. - I am still over powered by Dainya Maduri verses. Thanks for > it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 Dear Satish, Thank you for your response. Please see my responses, comments, to yours...below: -- In , safar_x <no_reply> wrote: > Dear Kathy, Blessed you are for having got initiation fron Vilayat > Khan. If you may find the successive Mrshids and Murshids after Khan > saheb himself, you are apt to find the name of Ivy Oneita Duce.She Satish, can you explain what you mean "after Kahan saheb himself"? (not sure I understand what you mean by saheb). Sometimes I can be pretty dense! :-) Please see further, below, my responses: > had written a volumenous book, i quoted before "how the master works" > published by Sufism Reoriented,walnut creek, USA. In that book the I am not familiar with this book, I haven't read a whole lot of sufi books for awhile, although I have a very great collection of them on my shelves presently. > story of Moses has been mentioned; but it is alligoric statement. Yes, many of the "sufi stories" are teaching stories. Somehow, sometimes those stories just further confuse me, as I try to key in to a number of things being said, and oftentimes confusion sets in! May > there have been no such incidence. Kathy, dont confuse,yourself, The > gist of the story is that every soul has his or her own spititual > connection which is predetermined according to his or her past > immoressions( sanskaras) gathered iduring the process of attaining > ahuman body.Thus a Path may be suitable to you, but another one for > me. Yes, this is very true. As Mother Meera said (I believe it was Her), people have different temperaments, so need different teachers. > As for the "Mother" concept, Meher baba told that the term may not be > assosiated to a female form in personal terms, but in immpersonal > terms only.Any one, male or female, if gives birth to any form or So than "Mother" can be titled or used for one in a male body? I thought the term was "Baba" for those in a male human body? But I do think I can "take in" what Meher Baba may have meant...i.e., seeing "Mother" as ALL, etc. Correct? > formless atribute( like a painting by a painter, or lines of poetry > by a poet), it is termed "mother". Yes "mother" aspect of the Divine > is real creater, the second passive form of the Absolue( which has > been tered as "purush..meaning a male), As per Sankhya school of I think you have lost me already, when you say, "the second passive form of the Absolute" :-) Sometimes all these things just confuse me...what is meant by "second passive form"? See, the more words, the more confusion for me sometimes. That is why I think many of the great ones who come and bless us with darshan say NO WORDS at all, rather it is the emanations/vibrations that affect us and take us to a higher plane of consciousness/Reality which surpasses or goes beyond the intellect/human brain... philosophy,This duality has vividly described. But, you are > perfectly right when you say that main thing in the Path is Heart, > not the Mind."Love" is a feeling of heart alone, independent of the I have a Zen buddhist priest friend, and it was either he or someone else in buddhism that has also used the words: 'mind-heart" or "heart- mind". Sometimes, words just get in the way. It seems our intellects are so intent on getting it right, or nailing everything down into a definition. But like that salt doll going into the depths of the ocean to measure the ocean, what happens to it? It is toally beyond 'measurement' (or 'definition', I would imagine..) > Mind. It is therefore Avatar of the age, Meher Baba, has emphsised > on "love" not "devote" God and try to see Him in every one and I am sorry, I didn't understand what you meant in the above, maybe there was a typo, can you further clarify: you wrote: "Meher Baba has emphasized on"love" not "devote" God.." ??? Could you please give that to me in more words...did not get what you meant about "not devote God"...????? > everywhere.The keynote is annihiliation of ego, and unconditional una > dulterrated selfless "love" for God whoes seat is your Yes, annihilation of the ego (what Swami Ramdas calls the 'false ego'). The sufis call the ego nufs or nafs. > way I had said, every one of us is an avatar; illusion veils the > truth and we began to be attach ourself. Beaware of this, and if you > feel your helpless ness, remember God by any name of your inclination. It is similar regarding "buddha nature" I think. For some time I posted on some NGs on Usenet, but people oftentimes became quite nasty. This group is much kinder and more loving. But I think the gist of it is, is that we all have buddha (or buddh) potential, but to realize that nature, we must purify the mind/heart. And that is also what many of the great saints/Divine Mothers/sages say: meditation purifies the mind. > soon I shall try to post other pages which you asked for, I am going > outstation for a week.I am too happy to find your approach in a very > divinely motivated direction. Ansy=uya amma.. and all others are to > be taken as Masters of much higher plains of the conciousness, and > they are full of love, compassion to all of us. They are never > affected by our "beleif" in them, but they are contituously doing > universal work for the uplifting human conciousness.... > Kathy I have only Love to offer you so plese accept it lovingly, not I accept your love and kindness. I am only trying to understand what you are saying that Meher Baba has said about avatars coming only in male human bodies. Still, I suspect it has to do with something like a specific mission in which the male body is necessary, but until you post the whole context, I will only be guessing at this point. > as a preaching. As for I am comcerned, I am a most poor fellow in the > Domain of spitituality > Satish > Thank you Satish, for all that you offer in love. Blessings, Kathy @}-->---- > , celestial_saraswati <no_reply> wrote: > > Dear Satish, > > Thank you for your response. I tend to get a little confused when > I > > read these stories...is this Moses that the story is about? > > I was initiated by Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan into sufism in l99l. So > I > > am somewhat familiar with some of the terms you are using before, > but > > not sure I got the total gist of the story. > > > > Yes, all of creation is the Divine. I think I remember in reading > > something, maybe in Amma Anasuya Devi's words, something to the > > effect, that it is not that the Mother is Mother of Creation, but > > rather, Mother IS Creation!!! > > > > I would like to respond to your post, but may have to do it in > > several parts as the machine tends to shut me down after I have > been > > too long on working on one post. There are some definitiations of > > 'avatar' that I looked up the other day that I would like to post > > on/about. > > > > I tend to agree with you, that words can get in the way, as well as > > arguments or even scholarly focus. It truly is about the heart, > and > > worshipping from the depth of one's heart: this is what REALLY > > matters, what REALLY counts. As Karunamayi has said, the Mother > > looks for the purity in one's heart, and even tapas/meditations are > > not as important as this (or words to this effect). Reading this > > helped me tremendously, because I have been having difficulty > > meditating ever since the WTC tragedy. > > > > Also, I would like to post some of the words by Hazrat Inayat Khan > > (Sufi Master, and father of Pir Vilayat, who initiated me in l99l0, > > what he said to his mureeds many years ago. His talks were > recorded > > by hand (they didn't have all the cassette recorders like we do, > and > > oftentimes people who took notes either missed words or they heard > > things differently and the notes were not exactly the same, > etc)...I > > would like to, if I can find, write some of the things Murshid > (this > > is H.I.Khan, who was a Pir-O-Murshid, actually) said about saint, > > master, prophet, etc. > > > > So this is continued to my next post...Part II > > > > Blessings, > > Kathy > > > > > > -- In , safar_x <no_reply> wrote: > > > Dear Erica and Kathy, After having read overwhelming post of > Dainya > > > Maduri, I am using the same page for posting this message. From a > > > posting from either of you, I was asked to post more from 2 to 3 > > > pages of the book I referred to. I shall do it for sure, but may > be > > > after a wile. In this post I am going to narrate a story as given > > as > > > a supplement to "HOW A MASTER WORKS" by Ivy O.Duce, then Murshida > > of > > > Sufism re-oriented,USA. The story goes as follows:- > > > Famuos saint Moosa(Moses), is said to having direct > conversation > > > from God; and this conversation was held daily from a secluded > hill > > > top. One day while Hazrat Moosa was going to that particuler hill > > > top, he saw a poor man sitting the road side absorbed in some > self > > > engrossed activity.He held a mud piece and was feebly > uttering. "O! > > > Allah. If you meet me some day, I would not let you go before you > > > come to my hut and I shall feed you with my own hands, annoit > you, > > > dress you, decorate you and pay a Namaz..." Hazrat Mossa's ears > > > caught these words,and he became very angree, thinking that this > > > wreched poor illetrate creater is insulting Allah, Who is so > great > > > that He can not be limited to any worldly form. With a good > notion > > > Hazrat admonished the fellow, and asked not to utter such words > > > of "Kufr". The poor man, with awe, agreed to and then Hazrat > > > proceeded for the hill top. That day hazrat kept waiting, but no > > > voice was heard by him from heavens. Next day too, Hazrat could > not > > > get the oppartunity to hear to His Lord's vioice. Days passed on > > and > > > with passing of each day Hazrat's uneasyness increased. One day > on > > > the hill top. he was in tears, and uttered, "o Allah! why dont > you > > > talk to me now? I am feeling great agony". Sudenly avoice came > from > > > the skyes, "All creation is Mine. O Hazrat! Blessed you are that > > you > > > have attained so much purity to have been able to talk to Me;But > > who > > > gave you authourity to tell the creatures of My creation as to > how > > he > > > or she adores me?".... It is said that Hazrat was conferred God- > > > Realisation same day. > > > The purpose of this story post is to impress upon the "Love- God" > > > facter irrespective of who is/was/shall be God-Incarnate, or what > > is > > > correct about male and female bodies. Although, I have made a > > pledge > > > to post 3 to 4 pages from the book, i quoted,but wiuld certainly > > like > > > to know if any one of us in the group had acces to the book I > > > pointed ? > > > Lots of pure unadultereated LOVE > > > Satish > > > P.S. - I am still over powered by Dainya Maduri verses. Thanks > for > > it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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