The Truth art Thou

October 11, 2002

Only the Truth is and you are That!

You Are the unchanging Awareness in which all activities takes place.

To deny this is to suffer, to know this is Freedom.

It is not difficult to realize this because it is your True Nature.

Simply Inquire 'Who am I?' and Watch Carefully.

Do not make effort and do not stir a thought.

Look within, approach with all-devotion and stay as Heart.

Keep vigilant and you will see that nothing will arise.

This is the trick of how to keep the mind quiet

and how to win Freedom. This doesn't take time

because Freedom is always Here.

You simply have to watch: where does mind arise from?

Where does thought come from? What is the source of this thought?

Then you will see that you have always been Free

and that everything has been a dream."

-Papaji

Hari Aum !!!

October 23, 2002

Greetings,

Jumping in late...my thoughts are as follows:

I think truth is a matter of perception.

Truth and falsehood are perceptions emerging from our interactions

with objects [of nature].

There are no eternal truths, just as there are no eternal falsehoods.

Our thoughts are shaped by the objects we interact with.

Our behaviour is shaped by the object's behaviour.

The object is the external stimulus and we are the clay that is

moulded that way.

That doesn't mean that we have no control over how we are moulded-

our level of control increases as our interaction with nature grows

to higher levels.

> You simply have to watch: where does mind arise from?

Our mind is an aggregation of our observations and perceptions that

emerge as a result of our fundamental interaction with nature.

> Where does thought come from? What is the source of this thought?

The source of thoughts is objects in nature.

Peace and prosperity for all.

October 24, 2002

>>The object is the external stimulus and we are the clay that is

moulded that way. That doesn't mean that we have no control over how

we are moulded-our level of control increases as our interaction with

nature grows to higher levels.<<

Thank you for your thoughts. We are indeed like the clay that are

moulded according to the external stimulus. The clay could be moulded

into a beautiful flower, or an elephant, or a doll or a weapon and so

on. What it is being moulded into depends on where you apply

pressure, and the way you mould it.

So too, we have control over how we are moulded in the sense, all ppl

do not react to the *SAME* situation in the same manner.

If for instance, each and every one here in this group is subject to

slander, then one gets offended and gives another verbal assault in

return. Another probably gets angry, but just ignores. Another wise

one probably feels no insult, and just remains calm.

He who reacts with vigour, causes a great pressure over the clay, and

the clay gets moulded to a great extent. He who has reacted mildly,

has exerted lesser presser on the clay, and the clay gets moulded to

a lesser extent, forming a different shape.

He who does't react at all, exerts no pressure, and the clay remains

unchanged.

This is what is meant by we have control over our destiny, for what

happens cannot be changed. But how we react to it is entirely on our

hands, and our future changes on how we react now.

As long as we are in duality, we see the rose, elephant, doll or

weapon. We can call them real, and if we see nonduality, we can say

they are unreal for they are all clay. Whether they are real or not,

the substratum of all is *clay*, and that alone is real. If you see

the mould, then you see the objects, but if you see the subtratum

then the objects are unreal, and only the clay is real.

So too, all objects appear real, as long as we see them

superficially, and with the eyes of duality. But if we go deeper, and

learn to look beyond the superficialities, we see the same *Self*

everywhere.

That alone is, and we call this eternal Truth, for we know no other

word to describe it. In reality, there just *IS*.

That Thou Art (Tat Twam Asi)

Hari Aum !!!

October 24, 2002

Thanks s_v_c_s for a neat reponse. Nice to hear from you

silentopposition.

The debate on how much of control we do have, continues, as always.

Some of us believe in conscious living, ie. choosing right action

reponses to situations we are faced with. My favorite analogy is that

of how in a card game, we may be dealt a certain hand, but we have

the choice how (attitude) we choose to play our hand. Some feel our

lifves are simply an event, here for a little while, gone at the end

of it. Others among us say, NOTHING happens without the will

of "God", that we are a "puppet" on a string, , as I like to phrase

it, nothing happens outside the Universal Law - that is not part of

the cause and effect sequence. Yes, we are, in a way, puppets of the

law of cause and effect (karma).

Yes, our thoughts reflect our experiences with "objects in nature". I

would add, these stem from impressions carried over several lifetimes,

also called, vasanas or samskaras in other words, karmic baggage.

These perpetuate the continuation of the karmic cycle. The only way

to break out of this cycle is to create no more impressions and

desires, through one of the various sadhna paths.

And finally, "the world is as we are", as perfect or messed up as our

experiences with nature has been. In a recent discussion with a

successfull lawyer, he said, he is wondefully happy, has no need to

look into life any further than what he sees and expereinces. Another

individual, who has lived life the way it is, feels, there is

something more and is willing to explore. Perhaps, our karmic baggage

also determines whether we are ready or not, or what our world view

is, or whether we need to be experiencially given a "push"

to keep moving on.

Some further thoughts

_/\_ Tat twam asi

Uma

October 25, 2002

Gee, you guys have *some* capacity for writing long messages

I can't match that.

Anyhow, my $0.02:

> [....] as I like to phrase

> it, nothing happens outside the Universal Law - that is not part

of

> the cause and effect sequence. Yes, we are, in a way, puppets of

the

> law of cause and effect (karma).

My stance on "karma" is that it is such a fetter on the development

of human thought and action, that we as a society must work to

abolish it.

karma is our past-the thoughts and actions in our past (and

by "past" you can interpret either this present life, or a previous

one-depending on whether you believe in re-incarnation or not).

karma is said to determine our circumstances in the future-what we

have to face, the struggles, etc.

karma is based on the fact that in the past (and going on even

today), there is so much exploitation, injustice and suffering that

every generation has this [to use your term] "baggage of karma".

karma is social in nature-and we must work as a race to abolish it

so that it is only our actions in this life that determine our own

individual future.

If we abolish the notion that a man's fate is based on his thought

and actions in a previous life, then we can have a more reasonable

and just system in which we can see suffering for what it really is:

human suffering is another side of the exploitation coin.

Remove the latter and the former goes away-and so does the need for

ideas like karma.

Man has to believe and follow the dictates of karma because we

cannot abolish suffering.

And that is our single biggest failure during the thousands of years

of evolution.

> Yes, our thoughts reflect our experiences with "objects in

nature". I

> would add, these stem from impressions carried over several

lifetimes,

> also called, vasanas or samskaras in other words, karmic baggage.

When I referred to interactions with objects of nature, I did not

mean "karma". I don't know how the idealistic concept of karma came

into this.

What I had meant was our thought is shaped by what we see in nature,

how we deal with it, whether we master it or are scared of it.

In the very early days, man saw thunder and fire and was scared of

it.

Those fears shaped man's conscience-he created fetishes out of it

and worshipped it in the hope of keeping those unchained forces away

from him.

Several hundreds of years later, man learnt to master water, thunder

and fire, and called it "science" or "geography" or whatever.

Similarly, today we are scared of karma, we are scared of suffering,

we are scared of unhappiness. All of us are.

So there is a need for us, as a race, to come together and abolish

the sources of these "evils", just as we had demolished the fetishes

of fire and thunder.

When we do that, these will no longer be a fetish, no longer be

something to be scared of.

I just hope it is a "when" and not an "if".

It would be such a waste if the human race goes on living like this

for another thousand years.

If I come back after 1000 years, and see the same suffering, I would

be very disappointed.

October 27, 2002

Thank you for your thoughts silentopposition. Hinduism carries in it

many concepts and paths to suit the myriad temperaments of people.

Some may like more of reasoning and anaylysis, and for them is the

path of Jnana Yoga. some others may be more inclined towards

devotion, and for them is the Bhakthi Yoga. Some people are more

inclined towards karma, actions, word, deed etc, and for them is the

Karma Yoga. Some people are inclined towards performing the eight

step yoga, called the hatha yoga, and for them is the Raja Yoga.

Still othes may be inclined in only bringing the kundalini up, and

for them is the Kundalini Yoga and so on.

Irrespective of which path one chooses, all will ultimately lead to

the same goal viz. Self Realisation.

Just like how, some people may like Punjabi cuisine, some others may

like Tamil cuisine, some others may like continental cuisine, some

others may like mediterranean cuisine, others may like mexican

cuisine, and so on, but the goal of all the food is one viz. to

satisfy hunger.

so too, you can pick what approves most to you, and forget about the

other paths. and if you travel in your path, you too will land up in

the same goal viz Self realisatino.

When you go deeper into Jnana Yoga, you find that time is merely a

mental concept. Today is the result of yesterday, and tomorrow is the

result of today.

The past was real when you experienced it, and the future will be

real when you will experience it. What is real is NOW.

The past is over and cannot be changed. The future, is yet to come,

and is not in your hands for now. What is in your hands is the

present. This is God's Gift to us, and is hence called 'PRESENT'.

What we must concentrate is thus, on what we must do now.

The past is over, and analysing whether our present suffering is due

to hte karma of this life or a previous life, is mere waste of time,

for that will not change or alleviate the present suffering. What we

need to focus is, on how to alleviate the suffering, and how not to

accrue future suffering.

The law of karma facilitates our understanding on suffering, of the

past, present and future. It's purpose is not to ponder, whether the

present suffering is that of present life or previous life, but

offers the key, on how to avoid accretion of future suffering.

Karma or the Law of Causation broadens ones' vista of the spiritual

realm, and is one of the initial steps undertaken by a sadhaka. It

may not hold good for a Jnani, for in his perspective all are mere

illusions. But that doesn't mean it's not true, for suffering is real

as long as duality is perceived.

Thus karma or Law of Causation is not mere 'fetishism'. It's valid

as long as one is in the lower levels of realisation. As one proceeds

to higher levels of realisation, and when one Realises the self, then

all laws cease to exist, for in Reality, there just *IS*.

Hari Aum !!!

October 27, 2002

The Law of Karma can certainly be a impediment to growth, if one

chooses to make it so. It can become a chain on one leg, holding back

any efforts to grow. And in fact it probabaly has done so through the

ages, through the misinterpretation of ignorant and expliotative

leaders.

However, it is completely freeing to those who allow themselves to

understand its essense - that we are co-creators of our world, no

matter postitive or negative. Just as we have created our experience

of today, we can create a different experience for tomorrow.

Yes, it will be abolished, as soon as we move even further forward,

to not only create good karma but totally break out of the cycle, by

not creating any karma at all. That is why our spiritual teachers and

those already on the path keep goading us to take up a conscious

spiritual practice.

If we choose to. For one can only take the horse to the water, can't

make it drink it. And if in this life they are "chatok" pakshi (the

legendary bird with a hole in its throat so even if it gets any

water, it can't drink it) tough luck. Have to come back for another

trip to karma land. Not wasted however, because they come with a

little chip off of their ego; that their road didn't work - there is

something more. The journey involves chizelling away and building a

little at a time - kinda like building a temple. hmmm

_/\_ Tat twam asi

Uma

****************************************

In post 4485 silentopposition wrote:

>

> "karma" is that it is such a fetter on the development

> of human thought and action, that we as a society must work to

> abolish it.

October 28, 2002

Dear Prabhu,Please accept My obiesanses!!In the Bhagavad-Gita ,Krsna says,In

so many words,Please give up all kinds of Religous practice,And to Surrender

to Him!!Yes i Aggree with everything you said,except You forgot the Direct

Way ,Back Home to Godhead,Simply Surrender to Lord Krsna,And He will take

You Home,Your Servant,Jaya Kesava dasa

s_v_c_s <no_reply>

Re: The Truth art Thou

Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:09:48 -0000