Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Jaya Sri Radhey! Here is a profound answer to the common question asked by all sincere seekers. --------- Would you please speak on the evolution of the master-disciple relationship? Below is Osho's reply to a similar question: Osho: There are relationships and relationships, but none is comparable to the relationship that exists between the master and the disciple. All other relationships are conditional, even the best. For example, a love relationship is still demanding. The only relationship which is unconditional, undemanding, is that which exists between the master and the disciple. In fact, it is so rare, so unique, that it should not be categorized with other relationships. It is the poverty of language that makes us call something a relationship which is not a relationship. It is a merger, it is a meeting -- for no reason at all. The disciple is not asking anything, and the master is not promising anything; yet there is thirst in the disciple and there is promise in the master. It is a closeness in which nobody is higher and nobody is lower -- yet the disciple is a woman, always a woman, because the disciple is nothing but an opening, a womb, a receptivity. And the master is always a man, because the master is nothing but a giving, a giving for no other reason than that he is so full. He has to give. He is a rain cloud. Just as the disciple is in search, the master is also in search. The disciple is in search of where he can open himself without any fear, without any resistance, without holding anything back -- totally. And the master is also in search of such a human being who can receive the mysterious, who is ready to be pregnant with the mysterious, who is ready to be reborn. There are many teachers, and there are many students. The teachers have borrowed knowledge. They may be very scholarly, very knowledgeable, but inside themselves there is darkness; their knowledge is hiding their ignorance. And there are students who are in search of knowledge. The master and the disciple is a totally different thing. The master does not give you knowledge, he shares his being. And the disciple is not in search of knowledge, he is in search of being. He is, but he does not know who he is. He wants to be revealed to himself, he wants to stand naked before himself. The master can only do a simple thing, and that is to create trust. Everything else happens. The moment the master is capable of creating trust, the disciple drops his defenses, drops his clothes, drops his knowledge. He becomes just a child again -- innocent, alert, alive -- a new beginning. The ordinary father and mother have given birth to your body -- that is one life, which will end in death. Your father and mother are responsible for your birth and for your death. The master also gives a new birth, but it is the birth of consciousness, which knows only a beginning -- and there is no end to it. All that is needed is an atmosphere of absolute trust -- and in that trust, things start happening on their own; neither does the disciple do them nor does the master. The disciple receives them. The master is the vehicle of the universal forces -- just like a hollow bamboo that can become a flute. But the song is not of the hollow bamboo; the hollow bamboo can have the credit only of not destroying the song, of allowing it. The master is a medium of the universal consciousness. If you are available, suddenly the universal consciousness stirs in you the sleeping, dormant consciousness. The master has not done anything. The disciple has not done anything. It is all a happening. The ancient stories are significant, to be remembered. Seekers went through hundreds of teachers until they came to a man in whose presence suddenly the trust was there -- they had arrived. Masters were moving..... There is a beautiful story. Gautam Buddha comes into a town. The whole town has gathered to listen to him but he goes on waiting, looking backwards at the road -- because a small girl, not more than thirteen years old, has met him on the road and told him, "Wait for me. I am going to give this food to my father at the farm, but I will be back in time. But don't forget, wait for me." Finally, the elders of the town say to Gautam Buddha, "For whom are you waiting? Everybody important is present; you can start your discourse." Buddha says, "But the person for whom I have come so far is not yet present and I have to wait." Finally the girl arrives and she says, "I am a little late, but you kept your promise. I knew you would keep the promise, you had to keep the promise because I have been waiting for you since I became aware... maybe I was four years old when I heard your name. Just the name, and something started ringing a bell in my heart. And since then it has been so long -- ten years maybe -- that I have been waiting." And Buddha says, "You have not been waiting uselessly. You are the person who has been attracting me to this village." And he speaks, and that girl is the only one who comes to him: "Initiate me. I have waited enough, and now I want to be with you." Buddha says, "You have to be with me because your town is so far off the way that I cannot come again and again. The road is long, and I am getting old." In that whole town not a single person came up to be initiated into meditation -- only that small girl. In the night when they were going to sleep, Buddha's chief disciple Ananda asked, "Before you go to sleep I want to ask you one question: do you feel a certain pull towards a certain space -- just like a magnetic pull?" And Buddha said, "You are right. That's how I decide my journeys. When I feel that somebody is thirsty -- so thirsty that without me, there is no way for the person -- I have to move in that direction." The master moves towards the disciple. The disciple moves towards the master. Sooner or later they are going to meet. The meeting is not of the body, the meeting is not of the mind. The meeting is of the very soul -- as if suddenly you bring two lamps close to each other; the lamps remain separate but their flames become one. Between two bodies when the soul is one, it is very difficult to say that it is a relationship. It is not, but there is no other word; language is really poor. It is at-oneness. from- http://www.barnett.sk/software/osho/askosh11.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Hello, Here are some https regarding "Master" as per Avatar Meher Baba, in case someone wishes to look this material up: http://www.avatarmeherbaba.org/erics/mast.html http://www.avatarmeherbaba.org/erics/oneclaim.html Meher Baba spoke often about the "Perfect Master" and he also cautioned about false saints. Peace, Kathy , pyari_h <no_reply> wrote: > Jaya Sri Radhey! Here is a profound answer to the common question > asked by all sincere seekers. > > --------- > > Would you please speak on the evolution of the master-disciple > relationship? > > Below is Osho's reply to a similar question: > > Osho: > > There are relationships and relationships, but none is comparable to > the relationship that exists between the master and the disciple. All > other relationships are conditional, even the best. For example, a > love relationship is still demanding. The only relationship which is > unconditional, undemanding, is that which exists between the master > and the disciple. > > In fact, it is so rare, so unique, that it should not be categorized > with other relationships. It is the poverty of language that makes us > call something a relationship which is not a relationship. It is a > merger, it is a meeting -- for no reason at all. > > The disciple is not asking anything, and the master is not promising > anything; yet there is thirst in the disciple and there is promise in > the master. It is a closeness in which nobody is higher and nobody is > lower -- yet the disciple is a woman, always a woman, because the > disciple is nothing but an opening, a womb, a receptivity. And the > master is always a man, because the master is nothing but a giving, a > giving for no other reason than that he is so full. He has to give. > He is a rain cloud. > > Just as the disciple is in search, the master is also in search. The > disciple is in search of where he can open himself without any fear, > without any resistance, without holding anything back -- totally. And > the master is also in search of such a human being who can receive > the mysterious, who is ready to be pregnant with the mysterious, who > is ready to be reborn. > > There are many teachers, and there are many students. The teachers > have borrowed knowledge. They may be very scholarly, very > knowledgeable, but inside themselves there is darkness; their > knowledge is hiding their ignorance. And there are students who are > in search of knowledge. > > The master and the disciple is a totally different thing. > > The master does not give you knowledge, he shares his being. > > And the disciple is not in search of knowledge, he is in search of > being. He is, but he does not know who he is. He wants to be revealed > to himself, he wants to stand naked before himself. > > The master can only do a simple thing, and that is to create trust. > Everything else happens. The moment the master is capable of creating > trust, the disciple drops his defenses, drops his clothes, drops his > knowledge. He becomes just a child again -- innocent, alert, alive - - > a new beginning. > > The ordinary father and mother have given birth to your body -- that > is one life, which will end in death. Your father and mother are > responsible for your birth and for your death. The master also gives > a new birth, but it is the birth of consciousness, which knows only a > beginning -- and there is no end to it. All that is needed is an > atmosphere of absolute trust -- and in that trust, things start > happening on their own; neither does the disciple do them nor does > the master. The disciple receives them. The master is the vehicle of > the universal forces -- just like a hollow bamboo that can become a > flute. But the song is not of the hollow bamboo; the hollow bamboo > can have the credit only of not destroying the song, of allowing it. > > The master is a medium of the universal consciousness. > > If you are available, suddenly the universal consciousness stirs in > you the sleeping, dormant consciousness. The master has not done > anything. The disciple has not done anything. It is all a happening. > > The ancient stories are significant, to be remembered. Seekers went > through hundreds of teachers until they came to a man in whose > presence suddenly the trust was there -- they had arrived. Masters > were moving..... There is a beautiful story. > > Gautam Buddha comes into a town. The whole town has gathered to > listen to him but he goes on waiting, looking backwards at the road -- > because a small girl, not more than thirteen years old, has met him > on the road and told him, "Wait for me. I am going to give this food > to my father at the farm, but I will be back in time. But don't > forget, wait for me." > > Finally, the elders of the town say to Gautam Buddha, "For whom are > you waiting? Everybody important is present; you can start your > discourse." Buddha says, "But the person for whom I have come so far > is not yet present and I have to wait." > > Finally the girl arrives and she says, "I am a little late, but you > kept your promise. I knew you would keep the promise, you had to keep > the promise because I have been waiting for you since I became > aware... maybe I was four years old when I heard your name. Just the > name, and something started ringing a bell in my heart. And since > then it has been so long -- ten years maybe -- that I have been > waiting." > > And Buddha says, "You have not been waiting uselessly. You are the > person who has been attracting me to this village." And he speaks, > and that girl is the only one who comes to him: "Initiate me. I have > waited enough, and now I want to be with you." Buddha says, "You have > to be with me because your town is so far off the way that I cannot > come again and again. The road is long, and I am getting old." In > that whole town not a single person came up to be initiated into > meditation -- only that small girl. > > In the night when they were going to sleep, Buddha's chief disciple > Ananda asked, "Before you go to sleep I want to ask you one question: > do you feel a certain pull towards a certain space -- just like a > magnetic pull?" And Buddha said, "You are right. That's how I decide > my journeys. When I feel that somebody is thirsty -- so thirsty that > without me, there is no way for the person -- I have to move in that > direction." > > The master moves towards the disciple. > > The disciple moves towards the master. > > Sooner or later they are going to meet. > > The meeting is not of the body, the meeting is not of the mind. The > meeting is of the very soul -- as if suddenly you bring two lamps > close to each other; the lamps remain separate but their flames > become one. Between two bodies when the soul is one, it is very > difficult to say that it is a relationship. It is not, but there is > no other word; language is really poor. It is at-oneness. > > from- > > http://www.barnett.sk/software/osho/askosh11.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Namaste. Thanks, Kathy, for the valuable links. Jaya Sri Radhey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Dear Friend, You are indeed welcome. Baba had said, I believe, that there is a spiritual energy attached to his words and would be so, for l00 years after the dropping of his body (occurred in l969)..and then afterwards the words would be like "Scripture". Here are some other https you might wish to check out, various readings that deeply interested me: There is a wonderful glossary of Baba's words on this website connection: http://www.avatarmeherbaba.org/erics/glosskey.html A good article on "Concentration Upon One Master": http://www.avatarmeherbaba.org/erics/oneclaim.html (I noted with interest the following: "All Masters are one in consciousness." This is VERY SIMILAR to what beloved Sri Karunamayi has said at darshan: "All true gurus are ONE." Also in the above website (which is really taken from the book GOD TO MAN AND MAN TO GOD, ed. by C. B. Purdom): "Psychic energy would be dissipated unless there was recognized a supremely imperative clim among the many claims of life. Exclusive concentration upon one Master is usually indispensable for gathering up the psychic energy of the disciple. In rare cases, owing to special circumstances, teh Masters may decide to share the spiritual work in relation to a particular disciple. And there are cases of disciples who have had to affiliate themselves to two or more Masters. But this is an exception rather than a rule; for Masters arrange the distribution of their work so that there is no conflict of loyalties." (p. 47-48 of book edited by Purdom) ----Meher Baba I will put more https in another post. Peace, Kathy , pyari_h <no_reply> wrote: > Namaste. > > Thanks, Kathy, for the valuable links. > > Jaya Sri Radhey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Thank you pyari for posting this by Osho. While I don't feel very good about the way Osho's org has been run, the behavior of his principle followers as I have seen live, or the first hand reports of many of those who lived in the ashram, I remain impressed by the wisdom he presented through his words on so many aspects of saadhna. There used to be a website where one could go and listen to his lectures, in his own voice; I would visit it often to listen to his hypnotic voice. But it has been taken away by the present management, and I am certainly glad that I got a chance to hear them. Thanks again.. _/\_ Tat twam asi Uma , pyari_h <no_reply> wrote: > > Would you please speak on the evolution of the master-disciple > relationship? > > Below is Osho's reply to a similar question: > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 Jaya Sri Radhey! Namaste all. You're very welcome, Uma, it's my pleasure to share enlightening teachings with all sadhaka. "Like the BEE, gathering HONEY from different flowers, the wise man accepts the essence of different scriptures (? teachings of great souls) and sees only the good in all religions (? Saints)." - Srimad Bhagavatam. "Truth has many aspects. Infinite truth has infinite expressions. Though the sages speak in divers ways, they express one and the same Truth. "Ignorant is he who says, "What I say and know is true; others are wrong." It is because of this attitude of the ignorant that there have been doubts and misunderstandings about God (? Master-Desciple Relation ship). This attitude it is that causes dispute among men. But all doubts vanish when one gains self-control and attains tranquillity by realizing the heart of Truth. Thereupon dispute, too, is at an end." - Srimad Bhagavatam. I do not have any association with Osho but I liked his profound answer to a simple, commonly asked question by all sadhakas. In today's world, the word 'Guru' or 'Spiritual Master' is most misunderstood and exploited by many sects. So I wanted to add this answer by Osho to the understanding and spiritual experience of sincere seekers but not to endorse nor disqualify Osho's discourses. Regards, Jaya Sri Radhey! , "Tatwamasi <tatwamasi>" <tatwamasi> wrote: > Thank you pyari for posting this by Osho. > > While I don't feel very good about the way Osho's org has been run, > the behavior of his principle followers as I have seen live, or the > first hand reports of many of those who lived in the ashram, I remain > impressed by the wisdom he presented through his words on so many > aspects of saadhna. There used to be a website where one could go and > listen to his lectures, in his own voice; I would visit it often to > listen to his hypnotic voice. But it has been taken away by the > present management, and I am certainly glad that I got a chance to > hear them. > > Thanks again.. > > _/\_ Tat twam asi > > Uma > > > , pyari_h <no_reply> wrote: > > > > Would you please speak on the evolution of the master-disciple > > relationship? > > > > Below is Osho's reply to a similar question: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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