HINDUISM

[Guest guest]

Ajit,

Let me try to answer you very precisely

Your Qn.- Idol worshipping (when it has been rejected by many

reformists like Guru Nanak, Dayanand Saraswati etc)

My ANs.-- they have not "rejected" Idol worship, they have pointed

out the futality..and said that Idol worship is just a primer for

Ultimate reality.

Your Qn.- Pathetic condition of women in hinduism who are tortured in

the name of dowry, sati etc. Hindus claim Shakti to be equal to God

then why its manifestation a woman is subject to such cruel reatment.

My ANs.-- Utter Ignorance

Your Qn.- alocoholism, sex and sacrifice of humans/poor animals in

name of Tantra.

My ANS-- They are wayled,and are objects of pity

I am not criticising Hinduism because as a Sikh I am also Hindu

but need these clarifications to understand more about my culture

Sat Sri Akaal

Jo Bole So Nihal

Sat Sri Akaal

Love,

Satish

[Guest guest]

thanks to both of you for trying to clear my doubts. But the atomic

part of this was beyond my (limited) intelligence. Can it be

explained in simpler way.

 

i still do not get how idols signify GOD. For example if God Siva

is exactly like his idol, if yes who saw it and if not, why siva's

idol is like that. Is God also like humans ? Had cats been

intelligent like us, they would have depicted Siva like a big Cat?

 

I worked in Madras for a year and was astonished to see Shaivaits

and Vaishnava fighting like cats and dogs. Both claiming to be

superior. In my humble opinion, if one is still in fighting mood on

which of the Gods is greater, then how can we take them seriously.

 

Is it not a problem with hinduism depicting 33 crore Gods and

Goddess (crore = 10 million). In old times when even the population

of earth may not be 1 million, how 330 million gods and goddesses

were depicted, those all fighting with each other and followers of

each claiming his god to be highest.

 

To avoid these conflicts Guru Nanak Dev ji declared " Ik Omkaar

Satnaam" Only OM is the truth. It vibrated with the Vedanta of

Hinduism. No other religion believes in so many Gods. Sikhism,

Islam and Christians all believe in ONE God.

 

But if Great Saints, depicted so many gods there should be a

purpose behind and what it could be

 

Sat Sri akaal

 

 

, s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

> Namaste Ajit,

>

> >>- Idol worshipping (when it has been rejected by many reformists

> like Guru Nanak, Dayanand Saraswati etc)<<

>

> Hinduism is not Idol worship, but idol worship is only the first

> step. When we are in school, and when are taught the structure of

[Guest guest]

Sat Sri Aakaal, Bolo So Nihaal!!!

 

Sardar Saheb!

 

Welcome to our satsangh and do look up some of our archived posts

for the various topics that have been covered. I apologize for being

absent for a while .. been caught up in karma yoga! I give some of

my thoughts to the ongoing discussion.

 

Thank you for bringing up some important questions about Hindu

philosophy that puzzle many a seeker. Most receive so much joy from

drinking the nectar of what it does have to offer, that they don't

really focus on these puzzles. Moreover, Hindusim is so inclusive

(the philosophy is, but it doesn't mean everyone practices it) that

it doesn't stop anyone from learning from the teachings of spoken by

Masters of the world. It is only in an true Hindu satsangh that one

can challenge its mainsteam ideas and find a honest discussion on

the subject.

 

Our home is old, in fact very old. Through its large palatial halls,

corridors, hallways, palaces connnected to more palaces, built over

millieniums, it is an interconnected mass of spaces filled with

wisdom that has guided many a soul, given birth to many a Master,

and been the crucible for the evolution of many a new child. In a

home so old, it is not unlikely to find cobwebs, mold, layers of

dust, or simply covers to protect gems, sometimes hiding their

brilliance.

 

I am reminded about when I used to visit my grandparents house in

Kolkata. Several generations had lived there. There were rooms upon

rooms, some were locked and kids weren't allowed, some had what

appeared to be strange walkways and corridors going to who knows

where in the large sprawling home of more than a few centuries. As

children we used to peek into the rooms in wonder.. sometimes we

would sneak in, but then run from the darkness that seemed to

envelop the place. As we grew into "all-knowing" modern teens, we

demanded to know what was there, we demanded things needed to be

organized, cleaned up, old things thrown away, because we didn't

understand its use and new things brought in. Some of the stufff

were left over from my great grand mothers time and my grand mother

didn't even know what it was used for. When we would ask her, she

would smile and say, you will understand as you grow older.

 

Hindusim is kinda like my grandparents house. A collection of

thoughts, lifstyle, beliefs, direct experiences, bred freely without

one leader imposing their thoughts and ideas on anyone. In its

essence the system believes that all knowledge comes from the ONE

and only ONE. All others only channel the knowledge according to

one's (or a group's) temperament, consciousness and readiness to

understand. So under those conditions it really didn't matter who

says what, no matter how great they were, because a finite form is

only a channel of the Eternal Knowledge. All finite forms make the

grand ocean of Eternal Knowledge available to people.

 

Thus developed a gigantic amassment of knowledge/information by

hundreds of great Sages, sadhus, Gurus, Masters, addressing the

needs of people over several milliniums as they evolved, swinging

from one extreme to another with an inbuilt sytem of correcting its

problems from within, as the Eternal Knowedge was revealed. For the

ease of students, the body of knowledge later was categorized into

various groups, the broadest being the five Yogas - Karma, Gyana,

Raja, Bhakti, Tantra - all paths to the same ultimate goal -

realizing, experincing "God". Later still, the western world came

into contact with us and felt a need to categorize us calling us

Hindus, a derivative from the word sindhu. From that was given the

name Hinduism, a way of life, not a prescribed religion. Further,

the western world, in an attempt to categorize us, began to

translate and made, what in my opinion, the biggest blunder ever.

They had no word for Devas and Devis, as distinct from the ultimate

formless Brahman. So all were translated into God, and we began to

be called a politheistic religion. While some may call this a

deliberate "mistake", personally I assign this blunder to ignorance.

 

God in Hindusim is ONLY ONE - Brahman. Devis and Devas are 33 crore,

or more. Devas/Devis are representations of the formless ONE, a

representation of the individual mind. As many minds, that many

representations. The average human tends to identify with beings

with human-like qualities, like love, compassion, forgiveness, more

easily than an abstract concept. These forms, form the basis of

BHakti yoga.. the path or love and devotion. Devotion to anyone..

spititual beings or Guru/Master. Any Master .. no matter where they

have appeared... because they appear everywhere at different times

in our evolution.

 

Those who are deeply involved in the Bhakti path in fact will tell

you these Devas are more than just concepts, they are spiritual

beings who exist in a different consciousness .. loka.. called Deva

loka. If you notice, Devas and Devis are not entirely perfect, in so

much as they are also influenced by emotions like humans. There

stories are told in human langauge - war, victory, defeat, anger,

etc. They are however more evolved than mere humans in other ways.

Further if we take the example of King Rama, even though he is

revered as a Deva it is also known he was a historical figure. So

who knows if the others also were historical figures who have

similarly attained a status of divinity. Why does an idol signify

God? The same reason why an image signifies a loved one. However a

specific spiritual practice is the Union through the energies of

devotion. Like all Unions it has to be experienced, otherwise one

gets only an approximation of the experience, often meaningless to

others.

 

Why do people then fight over whose Ishta devata is greater??

Because of the ego limitation of people, not of the Devata. It is

quite normal for the human to look upon their object of love as the

supreme, the ultimate in everyway. This is true for all human love -

whether for another human, Master or divine and they want everyone

to join in their adoration. Have you ever tried to tell a lover

anything against his loved one? He will "kill" you with all the

passion a young love possesess! Most evangelistic religions centered

on one Guru/ MAster, are examples of Bhakti yoga, where the lovers

want everyone to hear the songs about their loved ones.

 

What is the basis of the images of the Devas and Devis? One didn't

obviously have cameras etc in those days, but today one has a image

of King Rama, or Sita, who were actual historical figures. I would

expect people used their imagination, and descriptions given in the

ancient texts to conjure a picture of the Devata.

 

In the evolution of this huge mass of knowledge that is now termed

Hinduism, there are many things that everyone doesn't understand.

Most importantly, the followers are encouraged to question, learn,

ask and investigate, and often because of that freedom, many keep

their focus only on the aspects that interest them individually.

 

In the modern world of active seeking, one major disadvantage of the

system is that because of its beliefs in timelessness and eternal

knowledge, it never believed in record keeping, dating of its

information or authorship. Because of its belief in Karma and the

natural law of cause and effect, it ever believed in fighting for

its "religion". Eternal Knowledge cannot be destroyed, its

availability may change. Wars have been encouraged and fought for

justice and protection of truth, the Mahabharata being the greatest

example. If at some time a group did not effectively defend

themselves, the responsibility lies on the people not philosophy.

Hindusim does not order people to do anything; it lays out laws of

nature, and allows people to make a choices. And yes, it does appear

to have a focus on the individual more than the community, and I

have brought up the question in our satsangh many times without any

response.

 

However for me the greatest advantage of the system is that it

provides nourishment for all temperaments of people at all levels of

evolution and interest.

 

>>>If moderators do not object i would like to illustrate some

>>>verses from Japuji Sahib, the core prayer of sikhism, to add

>>>my 2 cents to this Satsang.

 

It will my pleasure to hear some pearls of wisdom from Japuji Sahib

and I assure you it will be worth more than 2 cents!!!

 

Welcome again!

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

[Guest guest]

Hinduism is one of the greatest and an ancient religion of the world. It offers

unity in diversity. Diversity we inherit whether we like it or not. Hinduism

gives us a chance to transcend diversity towards unity step by step, if not in

one life time, may be over a number of life times. Most people like me if they

want to go to the terrace shall take the ladder rung by rung to get to the top.

Hinduism does not say that there is one medicine for all ills, if you take it

fine or else you can go to hell. It offer variety to suit individual

temperaments. That is why Hinduism offers so many Gods and Goddesses. It is a

strength of Hinduism and not its weakness. It is there to show you that there is

One Reality, One Consciousness, behind all these names and forms. From an ant up

to the creator Brahma, there is one life force, of the same quality, pulsating,

through all humans, animals, the plant kingdom and the rest of it. Even if you

are a non-believer, you can be a Hindu provided you are an ethical person.

Hinduism is a way of life and it is not the name of any particular sect or a

dogma.

 

Hari Om

 

 

******************************************************************************

Know the Lord to be the only real thing in the midst of things unreal. Remember

God.Take His name always. Meditate upon Him. Feel His presence everywhere.

Surrender yourself to Him. He will bless you with peace, bliss, plenty,

prosperity and immortality. ----Swami Sivananda

********************************************************************************

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[Guest guest]

Thank ypou for a wonderful post.

 

regards,

 

Dr. yadu

 

 

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

> Sat Sri Aakaal, Bolo So Nihaal!!!

>

> Sardar Saheb!

>

> Welcome to our satsangh and do look up some of our archived posts

> for the various topics that have been covered. I apologize for

being

> absent for a while .. been caught up in karma yoga! I give some of

> my thoughts to the ongoing discussion.

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ajit,

 

First of all I'd like to tell you that Islam is NOT a lower religion.

All religions are different way that lead to the same, and no path

can be claimed superior to the other.

 

Now coming to your questions in Hinduism.

Let us see an illustration. If you had to travel from New York to

Bombay (Mumbai), there are many options available to you.

1. You could choose to fly by KLM and have a lay over in Amsterdam

and proceed to BOM

2. YOu could fly Air France, have a lay over in Paris, and proceed to

BOM

3. You could choose Delta, have a lay over in Frankfurt and proceed

to BOM

4. You could choose Air Alitalia, have a lay over in Rome and proceed

to BOM

etc etc etc.

 

There are many options available and you could choose any one

depending on which air lines pleases you the most, which is most

affordable. You might even have a sky miles account with one of them

and stick to the same airlines for all your travel.

 

Now if I choose Air France, and fly through Paris to BOM and claim

that my itinerary is better than yours ( say, flying through Rome to

BOM), it is sheer ignorance and nothing more, for they are different

merely in the paths.

My path cannot be better than yours, it is only different, and I've

chosen my path based on my temperament. You chose a path that

appealed to you best. Neither can be better than the other for the

destination is the same viz BOM in this case.

 

Similarly, Hinduism offers many paths like Bhakthi Yoga, Karma Yoga,

Raja Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Kundalini Yoga etc to suit the various

temperaments of the people. I probably like Karma Yoga, and someone

else may like Bhakthi Yoga, and some one else probably likes Jnana

Yoga. That doesn't mean mine is superior. It's just another way of

reaching the same destination. i.e Brahman / ONE.

 

You mentioned about people fighting that their own respective way /

path is better than the others. That only shows ignorance ont he

people's side, and does NOT demonstrate a weakness in the religion.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Dr Yadu

 

Thank you for your participation and comments. I feel I need to

apologize for a hurriedly written post with several editorial

mistakes as well being far too long. It was late at night and I

simply wrote without paying attention to details!

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

, "ymoharir" <ymoharir> wrote:

> Thank ypou for a wonderful post.

>

> regards,

>

> Dr. yadu

>

[Guest guest]

"Hindusthan" (India) has suffered a lot under all kinds of foreign

rule (Muslim, British) over many millieums. (It has gained a lot too

with the cultural interactions.) And as part of that suffering, many

aspects of its philosophy - "religion" has also suffered. Given the

history of the foreign rule in Hindusthan, and its attrocities, the

anger towards the rulers is understandable, specially among those

who suffered directly. Many warrior communities like the Sikh

community fought valiant wars, to protect the land against such

intruders. For those who either don't know the history, have only

theoretical/academic interests or those who haven't experienced the

challenges, (in other words have no emotional attachments) it may be

difficult to fathom the feelings.

 

At the same time, it is important to remember to distinguish between

a religion and its followers. We don't blame Christianity for the

holocaust, and neither do we continue to hold the massacres in the

Crusades against Christians. Not blaming doesn't imply we don't make

ammends or protect ourselves in the future.

 

The greatest injustices in the world have been committed in the name

of religion and a sadhak has to constantly be vigilant about making

this distinction, however hard it can be.

 

Not an easy task, but an appropriate challenge for sadhaks who want

to live the Higher Principles consciously.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

 

, kathy rabold <karatagi34677>

wrote:

> What males you think Islam is a "lower religion" than Hinduism ?

>

> Kathy

>

> sardarajitsingh <the-hermit@i...> wrote:

> OK Hinduism has the greatest of philosophies and their saints were

> all enlightened.

>

> Why Hindus were under slavery of apparentaly lower religions

(like

> islam for example) for over 2000 years. How will God allow such a

> slavery.

[Guest guest]

There is no doubt in my mind the ritchness of our culture. Despipe

of such profound philosophies why did our ancestors allow such

atrocities happen to them?

 

Could the reason bethat we (including our ancestors) have not learned

the lessons from the past. Lots of scholars are obessed with trying

to pinpoint the dates os vead but the same folks are not prepared to

understand what is said in these veads.

 

dirgaattamasa says "WHAT IS THE USE OF THESEr^ICHA IF YOU DO NOT

UNDERSTAND THEM?"

 

R^ico axare parame vyoman yasmina devaa adhi veshve niSheduH .

yastatra veda kimR^icaa kariSyati ya it tad vidusta ime samaasate ..

rg VeaDA 1.164 ..

 

Any thoughts??

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

>

> "Hindusthan" (India) has suffered a lot under all kinds of foreign

> rule (Muslim, British) over many millieums. (It has gained a lot

too

> with the cultural interactions.)

[Guest guest]

Exactly this is what I wish to ask " Why Hindu saints only indulged

in finding Moksha and no one tried to save thier culture from

invaders. Hindu public followed them and became COWARDS in the name

of MAYA. Had Sikh Gurus not been there, 80% of hindus would have

been killed or converted and today the name of India were "Islamic

Republic of Hindustaan".

 

If god has given us this human body and sent us to a country, is

it not our duty to save ourselves and our culture? Or waste our life

in useless theretical discussion.

 

 

Sat sri akaal

 

Someone asked how Islam is lower religion? I used the word

apparently lower. However bring one Muslim to me who says all

religions are equal. They say Islam is the only religion rest all is

Bakwaas(and this proves they are lower). My intention is not to

creat a new discussion on Islam but i am more worried about our own

culture.

[Guest guest]

My hats off to you Umaji for such a wonderful exposition on Hinduism.

 

Hari Om

radhakutir

 

-

"Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi

<>

20 August, 2003 10:36 AM

Re: Hinduism

 

 

> Sat Sri Aakaal, Bolo So Nihaal!!!

>

> Sardar Saheb!

>

> It will my pleasure to hear some pearls of wisdom from Japuji Sahib

> and I assure you it will be worth more than 2 cents!!!

>

> Welcome again!

>

> _/\_ Tat twam asi

>

> Uma

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

You can find most of the answers to your questions at

http://www.geocities.com/gokulmuthu/faq.html If you have

further questions, please feel free to send them across.

 

With regards,

Gomu.

 

 

=====

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Webpage: http://www.geocities.com/gokulmuthu/

---------------

 

______________________

India Promos: Win TVs, Bikes, DVD players & more!

Go to http://in.promos.

[Guest guest]

Dear Respected Sadhana_ananda:

 

Q - >>yes! Indeed the *richas* (the hymns of the vedas) are seated in

ParamE Vyoman ( in the transcental consciousness) where all the

devas , the laws of nature, reside. But fir those who are not

situated in conscioausness , what can the verses of vedas accomplish

for them? <<<

 

Everything, all the paths are the patha of knowledge or the one that

puts you on that path. Therefore, understand is the key,

because, "If you do not know what you say then way you say has no

meaning".

 

Performing rituals is important but one must do them with

understanding to gain any benefit. Without such knowledge, thye

mechanical recitations do is to induce & impart and "ego, pride" to

the saadhaka. That is why the real brahman is "jnana (dnyaana)".

Shankaracharya says "dnyate tatve kH sa.nsaaro ?".

 

I sincerely believe that this fundamental principle is to be applied

in all walks of life not just "yoga"; rather application of these

principles in everyday life is the real practice of austerities.

 

Patanjal Youga sutra clearly tell us in saadhana paada the meaning

of "japa" - "tat japaH tadarthabhaavanam".

 

Meaning - Janpa is not just recitation but the recitation of the

meaning of bhaavana expressed in the given mantra.

 

I regard it my privilege to participate in the discussion of

enlightened saadhakas in this group, that is why I was prompted to

quote Dirghattamaa >>R^ico axare parame vyoman yasmin devaa adhi vish

{}ve niSheduH . yastanna veda kimR^icaa kariShyati ya ittad vidusta

ime samaasate .. R^igveda\. 1\.164\.39 ..<<.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

 

 

, "sadhana_ananda"

<sadhana_ananda> wrote:

> On another note, did you know that you have quoted one of the best

> verses from Rig Veda?

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Yadu

 

One of the most critical lessons I learnt from my journey so far is

the pitfall of the path of only Gyana Yoga.

 

As is true for our Indian culture I, too, grew up putting people

who "know" on a pedestal, ASSUMING that those who spoke of our great

teachings, quoted, recited, paraphrased, analysed, wrote essays,

AUTOMATICALY were living the principles they were talking about. My

journey began by getting disillusioned with this dichotomy and

rejected all traditional ways. Only later did I return by way of a

different route and while I was faced again with the same question

again, this time I chose to research it instead of giving up.

 

The presence or knowledge of great wisdom and scholarship is not a

sufficient condition for its application. As I pointed out in my

earlier post, a fundamental difference between most religions and

Eastern philosophy is that Hinduism does NOT dictate or command

people what to do. It ONLY give us Natural Laws, which operate in

the universe, whether we choose to accept it or not - law of karma,

laws of energy, laws of creation/preservation/ destruction, and

methods of attaining the prescribed goals. These operate

individually and collectively - law of gravity will pull down either

an individual or a group. While at some point, we may have had

a "Ram Rajya", (the yugas go through its cycle), where all people

lived according to the highest principles, in this Kali Yuga, it is

more than likely that most did not. While the strength of Hindusism

is that we are given the freedom to "choose" (Practitioners of

bhakti yoga wil argue that we don't choose at all!) it certainly

includes the choices of ALL the consciousness that is not ready to

either understand the scriptures or walk the talk they speak.

 

One co-sadhak pointed out in a recent chat that we should take

things in our own hands and make things happen .. "No Karma No

God .. if we leave things to them we have chaos". Well, laws of

karma will operate whether we say yes or no. A practicing sadhak has

the opportunity to make things happen and act on the basis of the

Natural Laws. Whether he/she takes that opportunity is entirely

their choice and the wheel of Karma continues accordingly.

 

Since my first step was through Gyana- knowledge, it took me a while

to understand the stanza from one of the upanishads which

said.. 'those who follow ONLY gyana marga are worse than those who

follow nothing at all'!!! I made the most progress after having

moved my primary focus onto practice and conscious living of the

principles.

 

Dialogue, discussion and sharing of important teachings remains a

very important part of saadhna in the initial stages as long as it

is being put to practice. Otherwise we have the danger of falling

into the pit of pride and arrogance, powered by flattery and

adulation.

 

This leads me to asking .. is they any confusion about the

principles itself? Or perhaps in how to live them? If so who has the

responsibility to remove that confusion??? And how can we as sadhaks

contribute?

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

, "ymoharir" <ymoharir> wrote:

> There is no doubt in my mind the ritchness of our culture.

Despipe

> of such profound philosophies why did our ancestors allow such

> atrocities happen to them?

[Guest guest]

""Maharishi emphasizes that herein lies the proper use of the vedic

texts. They can never be used successfully as a guideline for

action. Their purpose is to serve us in verifying our own personal

experiences, when we gain familiarity with our own self-referral

state of consciousness. The books serve as a mirror by which we can

gauge the purity of our consciousness. They are the records of the

universal experiences of the unchanging field of consciousness, the

source of all change, the prime mover of life, the source of

creation. They describe to us in great detail the structuring

dynamics of consciousness and confirm to us that these mechanics of

consciousness are the structuring mechanics of the entire universe.""

 

http://www.selfrealisation.net/Vedic Astrology/FramVedAstr.htm

 

 

Illustrating the point I was attempting to make.. made far more

beautifully than I ever can!

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

[Guest guest]

Dear ones,

In continuation to Uma's post saying about enforcement of "Natural

Laws", and Dr. Yadav's post about Vedic "richas", I wish that

word "Rit" (Satam Ritum Vrihat) may kindly be contemplated. There is

no need to preach, teach or philosophising the "present-past-futer",

the urgent need is "PRACTICE".

I am not so well read, therefore wish that anyone of you may kindly

explain the word "Rit" . I feel it is very close to what Uma has said

and what Dr. Yadava has pointed out.

love

Satish

[Guest guest]

Dear Respected Tat wam asi:

 

With due respect i like to express some my thoughts after reading

your post. Hoefully, that may answer your question:

 

>

> This leads me to asking .. is they any confusion about the

> principles itself? Or perhaps in how to live them? If so who has

the

> responsibility to remove that confusion??? And how can we as

sadhaks

> contribute?

>

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The answer was most

elegantly put forth by Justice Warren burger when he became the Chief

Justice in 1984.

 

He said, "If you ask the question who is responsible then the answer

must be I am …. You are ….. , and we are …….."

 

Saint Raamdaasa in his daasbodha says that you will never get

any satisfaction if you do not think for yourself. Just by thinking

that devotee is separate from the deity or the other way around, does

not make that individual a devotee. Therefore one must think and

determine for himself what really matters (the ultimate principle of

truth as being the God which was validated by yourself). When all of

this is done from within then only it can be regarded as

aatmanivedanam.

 

bhakta mhaëije vibhakta navhe | äëé vibhakta mhaëije bhakta

navhe | vicäreàviëa kaàhéïca navhe | samädhäana || däsabodha 4.9.6 ||

 

tasmät vicära karävä | deva koëa to voÿakhävä | äpalä äpaëa çodha

ghyävä | antaryäméà || däsabodha. 4.9.7.

 

I would really recommend all saadahakas to read Daasbodha and

implement it in our daily lives.

 

Lots of devotees think that telling God their personal problems

aatmanivedanam. That is just complaining and a cleaver attempt to

drag "HIM" in to your problems and blame "HIM" if things do not

workout the way you want them to.

 

Finally, all knowledge is always someone else's experience of what

they thought. When one personally gets the "experience" then one

realizes what is said in scriptures as one's own validation. I think

all that is said in the literature (scriptures) is to be taken as

street signs that confirm that you are on the right path.

 

Dime a dozen Guru's who use 1001 tricks are responsible for the mess,

however, we the saadhaka's have a bigger role to share that burden

because we allowed it to happen without thinking and evaluating what

others are saying without any validations of our own by ourselves.

 

I was fortunate to have teachers who pushed away all the

disciples rather than creating his own followings. His favorite

quotation was, "bandhuraatmaiva ripuraatmanaH" (giitaa 3.5).

 

By the way, I love your call-tag screen name "tatwamassi",

however, you always sign it as "tat twam asi". The answer to your

question actually lies in your screen name and the "signature"

itself, all you need to determine which is what?

 

With best regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

[Guest guest]

My apologies to the members for having posted without proof reading

it and correcting the "typo".

 

In my post I wrote - "tatwamassi". Indeed there is no "ss" in the

word.

 

However the correct phrase should be written as "tattwamasi".

 

Thank you "adi_shaki-16" from for bringing it to my attention. I

will proof it in the future.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

, "ymoharir" <ymoharir> wrote:

> Dear Respected Tat wam asi:

>

> With due respect i like to express some my thoughts after reading

> your post. Hoefully, that may answer your question:

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Yadu

 

You mentioned a spelling mistake (Post no 5233). Let me assure you,

spelling mistakes are the least of the problem for sadhaks. This

forum is not only for scholars-sadhaks like you and many others, but

also for many, many sadhaks whose first language is not English and

are often hesitant to post, because they don't feel confident about

expressing themselves in English. Since saadhana has very little to

do with proficiency in any language or literary skills, we do not

give much importance to small oversights or other spelling mistakes.

 

So Dear Sir thank you, but there is no need to apologize! It is far

more useful to "proof" one's behavior, langauge, and thoughts, than

one's spelling!!!

 

You are very right in saying the correct spelling of the Mahavakya

is Tat Twam Asi. Unfortunately when I took "birth" on the net almost

5 yrs ago, this spelling was already taken, and tatwamasi was the

closest I got to the original. I guess I could have found something

a little more closer, but once I got it, I stuck with it. In our net

world with multiple-personality problems, I preferred to remain the

one I first chose.

 

>>I was fortunate to have teachers who pushed away all the

disciples ...(Post 5231)

 

You were blessed that you have had the experience of a Guru who

beleived in the very principles you are speaking about. I didn't

have that privilege, and had to be my own policeman, and used what I

call Natural Laws to set standards and guide me along! And in fact,

for me, these are actually very few - The Law of cause and effect;

the Laws that governs Energy - its creation, preservation and

destruction, that I am only responsible for my actions, and the

Vedantic Truth that sums it up for me, "The world is only as you

are." My spiritual Gurus who have guided me in spirit, have had the

tough task of keeping me in line.

 

I agree with you whole-heartedly regarding the importance of our

responsibility, individually and collectively towards the progress

or digression of our paths. We are not only responsible for our

actions, thoughts words and behaivor but equally importantly what we

support. (This is a popular subject and has been dealt with on many

occasions in our satsangh as was up by a variety of seekers.)

 

>>My intention is not to .....but I am more worried about our own

culture. (post 5204 by sardarajitsingh)

 

Sardar saheb point is very well taken and I agree with him in that

maya and consciouness are among the several concepts that seem to

have been misued to the detriment of the culture. While I agree that

when the need arises, one's culture needs to be defended, I am more

in favor of making myself/ourselves stronger to protect against

attacks, instead of seeking retaliation in the language of

perpetrators. To me Tat Twam Asi implies that THAT exists as a

potentiality in everything, that there are important karmic lessons

in allllll interactions negative or postive, individual or group,

but it does not mean the negative ones need to be promoted,

supported or followed. When sadhaks follow that route, it simply

exhibits a stage of ignorance to me.

 

>>I would really recommend all saadahakas to read Daasbodha and

>>implement it in our daily lives.

 

I would be much obliged if you post some of the messages from the

text you mentioned specially with respect to its applications in

daily life! (I could do a Google search and find tons of texts, but

I would like to learn about it from one who has taken the time to

study and follow it in thier lives).

 

Thank you again

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

, "ymoharir" <ymoharir> wrote:

> My apologies to the members for having posted without proof

>reading it and correcting the "typo".

[Guest guest]

First of all let me congratulate Sardar Ajit Singh ji, for raising a

very valid issue for discussion. Sardar sahib ,we all agree , and

never debate that Hindu religion has been abused for ages by its own

people,the religion gives ample freedom to its followers, which

every one in this debate has agreed ,(which religion can claim to be

free of of such people) , but you could have avoided " Why Hindu

saints only indulged in finding Moksha and no one tried to save

their culture from invaders. Hindu public followed them and became

COWARDS in the name of MAYA. Had Sikh Gurus not been there, 80% of

hindus would have been killed or converted and today the name of

India were "Islamic Republic of Hindustaan".

These are harsh words and should be avoided. In a lighter vain may I

say Hindu religion has survived for ages, and will survive for

coming times , only because of its openness and prayers of its

followers.Also please remember "Sabka Rakshak uparwala, hai manushya

to sirf Madhyam hai"(God is saviour of all, man is just a medium).

So many warrior clans have fought for saving Hindustan, Sikhs,

Gurkha's, Rajputs, we cant forget them.

 

Its good to discuss about our mistakes , and correct them, but its

wrong to glorify other religions flaws.I would say why compare

religions? its a matters of one's faith .

Come on sardar sahib help us understand the richness of

Sikhism,through the beautiful verses from Japuji Sahib, the core

prayer of Sikhism, to add your billions to this satsang. we are

waiting.

 

Namaskar

 

 

 

, "sardarajitsingh" <the-hermit@i...>

wrote:

> Exactly this is what I wish to ask " Why Hindu saints only

indulged

> in finding Moksha and no one tried to save thier culture from

> invaders. Hindu public followed them and became COWARDS in the

name

> of MAYA. Had Sikh Gurus not been there, 80% of hindus would have

> been killed or converted and today the name of India were "Islamic

> Republic of Hindustaan".

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Respected "Tatwamasi" :

 

I am on this group only because I saw sincere and knowledgeable folks

here. Some one pointed out my errors therefore I had to correct the

associated "TYPO" what I regarded as errors.

 

Actually I feel privileged that you have taken time to be on-line to

respond such a long reply. Thank you for the same.

 

I hope I did not offend you in any way because that was not my

intension.

 

In future I will be position relevant things from "daasadodha".

Actually it was written for the purpose of sadhaka's to be on guard

at all times from everything, including his GURU. It is most out

spoken straight forward advise one can find any where.

 

I wish you well for your continued progress.

 

Best regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

> Dear Dr. Yadu

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Respected Dr Yadu _/\_

 

You DID NOT offend me at alll .. for anything. It takes a lot to

offend me and as a sadhak who is always on guard against one's ego-

centered tendencies I don't take offence easily.

 

I am delighted and feel priviledged to have you on board in our

satsangh, and hope to learn a lot from our interactions. Please

feel free to be yourself, and express thoughts on any saadhna

related topic you feel you wish to share or discuss. I and my co-

founders do sincerely mean it, let no one convince you otherwise.

 

We, who are called moderators are only a medium too, to bring

people together for a specific purpose. We DO NOT moderate the

ideas expressed, our ONLY role is to try to make sure -

 

1. A certain level of decorum is maintained, and insults, abuses

etc are avoided. (We have suffered a lot earlier.) We also make

sure people who indulge in such activities do not bring their

energies to this forum, not because they are "bad" (no one is "bad")

but simply because this is not the place for it.

 

2. Remove unnecessary parts of the posts, (repetition of posts

being replied to) to conserve space on the board, since

will delete posts indiscriminately if the alloted server space

gets filled up.

 

That is all we do. Our primary goal is to learn and provide a forum

for all sadhaks to share sincerely.

 

Thank you again

 

Sincere regards

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

 

 

, "ymoharir" <ymoharir> wrote:

> Dear Respected "Tatwamasi" :

>

> I am on this group only because I saw sincere and knowledgeable

folks

> here.

[Guest guest]

I do not see any thing wrong with the spellings pointed out in this post. If you

write "Tat Twam Asi" in Sanskrit and apply the Sandhi rules of the language, you

end up with "Tatwamasi". Therefore both terms are equally correct but in spoken

as well as the written language the latter is used in preference to the former

because of its compactness. Sanskrit is a terse language, therefore Sandhis are

invariably enjoined in the written script.

 

Hari Om

radhakutir

 

 

-

"Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi

<>

25 August, 2003 8:08 AM

Re: Hinduism

 

 

> Dear Dr. Yadu

> So Dear Sir thank you, but there is no need to apologize! It is far

> more useful to "proof" one's behavior, langauge, and thoughts, than

> one's spelling!!!

>

> You are very right in saying the correct spelling of the Mahavakya

> is Tat Twam Asi. Unfortunately when I took "birth" on the net almost

> 5 yrs ago, this spelling was already taken, and tatwamasi was the

> closest I got to the original. I guess I could have found something

> a little more closer, but once I got it, I stuck with it. In our net

> world with multiple-personality problems, I preferred to remain the

> one I first chose.

> Thank you again

>

> _/\_ Tat twam asi

>

> Uma

>

> , "ymoharir" <ymoharir> wrote:

> > My apologies to the members for having posted without proof

> >reading it and correcting the "typo".

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Page 2 Line 9 Guru Nanak Dev

guru eIsru guru gorKu brmw guru pwrbqI mweI ]

The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is

Paarvati and Lakhshmi.

gu{ eés{ gu{ gorKu brmw gu{ pwrbqI mweé ]

gur eesar gur gorakh barmaa gur paarbatee maa-ee.

 

Page 6 Line 1 Guru Nanak Dev

AwKih eIsr AwKih isD ]

Shiva speaks, the Siddhas speak.

AwKih eésr AwKih isD ]

aakhahi eesar aakhahi siDh.

 

Page 21 Line 4 Guru Nanak Dev

 

jh dyKw qh riv rhy isv skqI kw mylu ]

Wherever I look, I see the Lord pervading there, in the union of

Shiva and Shakti, of consciousness and matter.

jh dyKw qh riv rhy isv skqI kw mylu ]

jah daykhaa tah rav rahay siv saktee kaa mayl.

 

 

Please visit these pages and enjoy the teachings of the

Great Guru Nanakji

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?

Action=Search&Param=english

 

jyotishguru

 

, s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

> Namaste Ajit,

> >>- Idol worshipping (when it has been rejected by many reformists

> like Guru Nanak, Dayanand Saraswati etc) > Hinduism is not Idol

worship, but idol worship is only the first > step.

[Guest guest]

Dear Jyotishguruji

 

Thank you for this site.. it certainly makes it clear how Guru Nanak

ji felt about hindu dieties.

 

I wasn't able to access the site directly .. instead I went to the

home page -

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Main&S=y

 

and then went to pages you cited.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

, "Samarendra Kumar Ghosh"

<jyotishguru> wrote:

 

> Please visit these pages and enjoy the teachings of the

> Great Guru Nanakji

> http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?

Action=Search&Param=english

>

>