Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 "Free will is a misnomer. Will can never be free. How can it be?...The will of man is bound, but that which is the foundation of that will is eternally free." [i.e., Pure Consciousness] Swami Vivekananda, CW. Vol II, p. 283. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 I found an very interesting post in one of the clubs I belong to and want to share it here because of its relevance to spiritual practice! Uma --------------------------- ""It is mentioned in the Kathamrita that Thakur said, " There is no such thing as free will. Even the leaves of a tree cannot move without his will". To a question about the futility of good and evil in such a case Sri Ramakrishna preferred to dodge it by saying, " I cannot reveal more." Perhaps the truth in this case is best kept secret as we ignorant people may commit mistakes and attribute it to "Gods will". However Revered Swami Bhuteshanandaji Maharaj makes a subtle distinction between free will and destiny by giving the following example. Two cows are tied to two different trees in a meadow. One cow sits down without eating the grass around him. The other eats the grass in the entire reachable area. The cowherd then comes and relocates the second cow to a fresh tree. So our being tied to the tree is destiny. Eating the grass within our reach is free will. When we exercise our free will judiciously God gives us a fresh start. Regards Jagannath. Ramakrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 Q. Is there such a thing as free will? A. Whose free will is it? You believe it is yours, but you are beyond will and fate. Abide as That and you will transcend them both. That is the meaning of conquering destiny by will. Fate can be conquered. Fate is the result of karma, but bad vasanas are conquered by satsang and one's experiences are viewed in the proper perspective. I now enjoy the fruit of karma, I did in the past and will in the future. Who is this 'I'? Finding this 'I' to be pure Consciousness beyond karma and enjoyment, freedom and happiness are discovered. There is then no effort, for the Self is perfect and there is nothing to gain. So long as there is individuality, one is the enjoyer and the doer. But if it is lost, the divine will act and guide the course of events. Restrictions and discipline are for jivas and not for muktas. The scriptures imply that free will is good and can overcome fate. It is done by jnana, "As the fire which is kindled reduces all fuel to ashes, oh Arjuna, so does the fire of knowledge reduce all karma to ashes', Others are not responsible for what happens to us. They are only instruments for what would happen to us some way or other. Let us be strong in faith and not succumb to fear. Whatever happens, happens according to your prarabdha. Let it exhaust itself. Evil intentions and evil actions are natural to the evil-minded. But their evil will only turn back on themselves, and not affect us simply because they desire it. One is required not to think of oneself, so why should there be anxiety regarding others. Individual human beings have to suffer their karma, but Iswara manages to make the best of it for His purpose. God manipulates the fruit of karma; He does not add or take away from it. A human being's subconscious state is a warehouse of good and bad karma. Iswara chooses from this warehouse what will best suit the person's spiritual evolution at the time, whether pleasant or painful. Thus nothing is arbitrary. - Ramana Maharshi Hari Aum !!! , "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote: > > "Free will is a misnomer. Will can never be free. How can it > be?...The will of man is bound, but that which is the foundation of > that will is eternally free." [i.e., Pure Consciousness] > > Swami Vivekananda, CW. Vol II, p. 283. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 Dear S_V_C_S: I enjoyed reading RamaNa mahrshi's quotations. Thank you. Similar thought were also expressed by other devotional poets as well - kaama ka kaahuu aavaii, mola rahiima na le{}i baaju TuuTe baajako, saahaba caaraa de{}i .. rahiima .. ajagara karai na caakarii, pa.ncchii karai na kaama daasa maluuukaa kaha gae, sabake daataa raama .. maluukaadaasa .. Over all meaning - Ishavara (GOD) is compassionate and he takes care of things (as per his scheme). It is all "HIS Will". It is not our "Free-Will" but "HIS" Regards, Dr. Yadu , s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote: > Q. Is there such a thing as free will? > A. Whose free will is it? You believe it is yours, but you are > beyond will and fate. Abide as That and you will transcend them both. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Guru Nanak Dev Ji said : Kari Kari dekhai kita apna, jio tis di wadiar jo tisu bhavai so karsi, phir kukamu na karna jai So parisahu saha pati sahibu nanak rahnu rajai After creating the creation, God in His grandeur beholds His works. God does whatever pleaswes Him and no one can give him orders Nanak says one should subject to HIS will who is the king of kings. hence we do not have any free will, he desires and he plays Sat sri akaal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 It's interesting to hear you say that even Guru Nanakji talked about surrender to "Gods" will - the traditional Bhakti path. Wouldn't that answer your question as to why the political/economic history of Hindusthan has gone the way it has? "Also please remember "Sabka Rakshak uparwala, hai manushya to sirf Madhyam hai"(God is saviour of all, man is just a medium)." (Post 5242 -jigyasa02) While I'm still not convinced as to the degree of responsibility we have, (my understanding is that we have more than this), the total surrender is certainly a burden off one's back!! That leads me to a question whether if this, or a misuse of this concept has led to apathy and a vicious cycle of self-centered (instead of SELF-centered) activity sucking us all into its pit? _/\_ Tat twam asi Uma , "sardarajitsingh" <the-hermit@i...> wrote: > Guru Nanak Dev Ji said : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Dear Ones, SVCS's post "greatfullness" has prompted me to say something on Free Will. I would like to draw attention to our learned members to a book "Fate Of Humans" by Le Comte-De-Noy, a noted philosopher of our age. He has dealt the question of "Free Will" in a thorough manner and concludes that "..we cant say anything for certain..." (or the words to that effect), because our "terms of reference" can never be universal. Also I like to refer Sri Aurobindo's anylasis of the "Being" of a human entity. He says that we have mainly three parts of our being--Physical,Vital, and Mental--- and encompassing all three, we have a fourth one too,The Phsycic Being, which has been called as "Angushtha Purush". Now if we put a question of "Free Will", we must address it to a certain part of our being. Our scriptures say that "Angushtha Purush" is, of couse Free, while our Physical,Vital, and Mental beings are not. Now who is to solve the puzzle ? That is why at the outset of discussion over free will, I called it a "Mental Gymnastics" Love Satish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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