Charity/Dana?

[Guest guest]

Charity Dana has always been an interesting point for discussion.

The last time it came up it didn't have many takers.

{Charity (dana) Posts - 2846, 2855, 2857, 2864, 2868, 2879, 2957,

2958}

 

Personally I follow a very simple method to judge the merits of any

of my actions. MOTIVATION - An attribute that often cannot be judged

from the outside, only the doer knows, unless they are in denial.

 

If the motivation has to do with self-aggrandization, self-

glorification, establishing superiority, with disrespect towards

towards those taking charity, such actions are merely patting their

little selves, which simply means they have to do more work on

chiseling out that ego.

 

If however if one wants to share what one has with someone who

doesn't, simply because of a desire to share, or compassion towards

a fellow human being, with a sense of gratitude towards the receiver

for providing an opportunity to learn giving and sharing without the

above mentioned self serving-ego, then, even though it is still

satisfaction of a ego-centered desire, it moves one closer to the

removal of the ego.

 

The receiver on the other hand has his/her own karma to work on..

learning humility or simply providing a receiver for the giver!

 

"The world is as we are". The presence of receivers, also provides a

mirror of the receiver, the needy individual, within our own selves.

For those who are totally centered in the TRUTH, they see perfection

in all, each at its level of consciousness. There is no need to give

or receive because all simple IS.

 

As far as sardarjis comment on not supporting a child of an enemy

country, as long as one is at the level of Divisiveness instead of

Unity, one surely has tons of ego chiseling to do and miles to go

before they sleep!!!!

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

[Guest guest]

As far as sardarjis comment on not supporting a child of an enemy

country, as long as one is at the level of Divisiveness instead of

Unity, one surely has tons of ego chiseling to do and miles to go

before they sleep!!!!

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

Balle balle Masi ji. Let me take you to 1947. Pak was newly born

and asked for 50 Million Rupees. Everyone including Nehru was

against this donation. Gandhi, as usual, sat on fast unto death,

asking India to donate this amount to Pak, treating them as younger

brother. Finally Nehru had to give up and money was donated to Pak,

who immediately purchased arms and sent tribalmen to Kashmir. Half

of Kashmir was snatched from India and we are still losing our sons

due to that CHARITY.

 

Will you ask America to donate for Al queda ? Their children are

also starving!

 

Thank God these type of Budhdhistic thoughts were not present

during Mahabharata, otherwise Gita would not have been written.

 

Are you a Hindu ? How can you defy Krishna. Where in Gita

Krishna said enemies should be pitied upon and given donation.

Krishna did not ask Arjuna to spare Bhishma Pitamah out of kindness.

He did not ask Pandavas to take pity on 100 sons of Kauravas.

 

Why Krishna arranged brutal killing of Kamnsa, Jarasandha,101

Kauravas, Karan, Jayadratha,Dronacharya and million others.

 

So before we continue on Sadhna we have to clear all these

things. Are we going to be like a pigeon siting quiet closing his

eyes while the cat is approaching.

 

Is it not true there are Negative energies in the universe and

some people working with them? How are we going to deal with them ?

Are we, in guise of, charity, kindness and pardon, not promoting

them ?

 

Mohammed Goouri attacked India 17 times and each time he was

fogiven by us and finally he won and burnt all our sacred books,

broke temples, and killed millions of Indians. So is it not our duty

first to see that our culture is kept alive and then follow it?

 

Mercy, kindness, charity, virtue are all hollow words used by

cowards. These are good when Norway is interacting with Finland! Not

when India v/s Pak or USA v/s al-queda.

 

Krishna wanted us to be Brave, warrior, diplomat and tactful in

dealing with Negativity. Perhaps Hindus of today have not understood

it so Mother Nature will repeat its lessons. BE READY

 

IN my opion Sikhs follow Krishna more than Hindus. Sikhs are

Bhaktas, do not believe in many gods and are ready with their sword

whenever there is Negativity against humanity.

 

Sikhs do charity, but are cruel with enemies. They weep before

god, but their mothers do not weep when their children die for

Dharma.Sikhs love their country and are ready to die for Her. Sikhs

do not allow enemy to flourish in the name of charity, donation or

kindness. I wish all hindus become SIKHS

 

Bole so nihaal Sat Sri akaal

[Guest guest]

Sardarjiiiii....

 

I just dont see what good does resentment do!! I agree with tatvamasi that you

have a long way to go. or in other words you are far too behind.

 

okay when you see pakistani or al qedha "children" starving, you have 2

philosophies here...

 

1) You can leave them to their fate and let them die.

2) You can "help" them and "hope" that they will change. BUT DONT say I have

blessed u guys with charity and u kids are gonna be nice guys when u grow up.

 

ok you take 1st option... what is the end result.. You have increased hatred.

Atleast in option 2 you may have increased hope of them reforming.

 

You may always find vibheeshanas in ravanas army, provided you are rama.

Nobody told you to be a silent pigeon when the cat attacks, what are your wings

for??

But that doesnt mean, you keep flying here and there making lots of noises,

cursing the cat just to add more fuel to the burning fire.

 

Hatred and Resentment can never bring peace n eternal happiness.

They are like boomerang, they will definitely come back to us.

 

Moreover Happiness cannot be your goal. You cannot try to perform actions to

ensure you remain happy. It is jus a by product.

 

Whatever you do, there will be pakis and alqedas everywhere all the time. Do you

see the purpose why there is adharma at all?

 

When you realise whole world is part of ur "self", then how is it that you can

have hatred.

Everyone has bad Habits and they die hard, but does that mean give up any

efforts to improve.??

 

As swami Vivekananda has told: Selfishness should be there but not the foolish

selfishness that puts our ego at ease.

 

There is nothing gr8 in being a sikh or hindu or a muslim. Everyone is a hindu

muslim or sikh.

Afterall what is religion??? ideologies, philosphies consilidated. And what

"comforts" you will of course seem to be the best.

 

What I feel is Open mind is the very essential thing before even you think about

sadhana.

When you are thinking in tight compartments then there is no scope of learning.

 

Alak Niranjam!

--Pradeep

sardarajitsingh <the-hermit wrote:

As far as sardarjis comment on not supporting a child of an enemy

country, as long as one is at the level of Divisiveness instead of

Unity, one surely has tons of ego chiseling to do and miles to go

before they sleep!!!!

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

Balle balle Masi ji. Let me take you to 1947. Pak was newly born

and asked for 50 Million Rupees. Everyone including Nehru was

against this donation. Gandhi, as usual, sat on fast unto death,

asking India to donate this amount to Pak, treating them as younger

brother. Finally Nehru had to give up and money was donated to Pak,

who immediately purchased arms and sent tribalmen to Kashmir. Half

of Kashmir was snatched from India and we are still losing our sons

due to that CHARITY.

 

Will you ask America to donate for Al queda ? Their children are

also starving!

 

Thank God these type of Budhdhistic thoughts were not present

during Mahabharata, otherwise Gita would not have been written.

 

Are you a Hindu ? How can you defy Krishna. Where in Gita

Krishna said enemies should be pitied upon and given donation.

Krishna did not ask Arjuna to spare Bhishma Pitamah out of kindness.

He did not ask Pandavas to take pity on 100 sons of Kauravas.

 

Why Krishna arranged brutal killing of Kamnsa, Jarasandha,101

Kauravas, Karan, Jayadratha,Dronacharya and million others.

 

So before we continue on Sadhna we have to clear all these

things. Are we going to be like a pigeon siting quiet closing his

eyes while the cat is approaching.

 

Is it not true there are Negative energies in the universe and

some people working with them? How are we going to deal with them ?

Are we, in guise of, charity, kindness and pardon, not promoting

them ?

 

Mohammed Goouri attacked India 17 times and each time he was

fogiven by us and finally he won and burnt all our sacred books,

broke temples, and killed millions of Indians. So is it not our duty

first to see that our culture is kept alive and then follow it?

 

Mercy, kindness, charity, virtue are all hollow words used by

cowards. These are good when Norway is interacting with Finland! Not

when India v/s Pak or USA v/s al-queda.

 

Krishna wanted us to be Brave, warrior, diplomat and tactful in

dealing with Negativity. Perhaps Hindus of today have not understood

it so Mother Nature will repeat its lessons. BE READY

 

IN my opion Sikhs follow Krishna more than Hindus. Sikhs are

Bhaktas, do not believe in many gods and are ready with their sword

whenever there is Negativity against humanity.

 

Sikhs do charity, but are cruel with enemies. They weep before

god, but their mothers do not weep when their children die for

Dharma.Sikhs love their country and are ready to die for Her. Sikhs

do not allow enemy to flourish in the name of charity, donation or

kindness. I wish all hindus become SIKHS

 

Bole so nihaal Sat Sri akaal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When dealing with people, let us remember we are not dealing with creatures of

logic. We are dealing with creatures of emotion, creatures bustling with

prejudices and motivated by pride and vanity.

Dale Carnegie

 

The great question that has never been answered and which I have not been able

to answer....is, What does a woman want?

--Sigmund Freud

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

well done pradeep

 

you wrote

--

> Hatred and Resentment can never bring peace n eternal happiness.

> They are like boomerang, they will definitely come back to us.

>

--

 

=> Where does the question of hatered come from ? Did I write

anywhere that I hate someone ? If i simply deny my charity to

somebody does not mean I hate him

 

 

----

> Whatever you do, there will be pakis and alqedas everywhere all the

time. Do you see the purpose why there is adharma at all?

>------------------------

 

=> Why you have taken all of my post as my personal opinion. I

simply asked one question. If Krishna was of these views which are

being expressed here ? If Krishna also said to be kind and

charitable to enemies please let me know the number of verse from

Gita or Mahabharta, if not then either leave following Krishna say he

is not your God, or give some other explanation. If we are having a

discussion better reply point by point not certifying the questioner

as Idiot or behind the path....who knows where one is.

 

Hindus say Krishna is Purna avtaar, he is supreme God he is this

and that, then if I ask about Krishna and his teaching and if we

follow them, what degradation that brings to me ??? Correct analysis

of the situation/person without any prejudice and biased opinion is

what "Ritambhra Pragya" brings to a Sadhak.

 

 

------------------------------

> Sardarjiiiii....

>

> I just dont see what good does resentment do!! I agree with

tatvamasi that you have a long way to go. or in other words you are

far too behind.

--------------------------------

 

Let me know is it right for you or anybody else to certify where

I am on the path ? can u or tatwamasi Know where I stand ? Please

stop judging others and try to give answers. If you have no reply at

least dont try to degrade me! If I am a nuisance for group, tell me I

will go away !

 

 

 

Sat sri akaal

[Guest guest]

Sardarjiiiii..........

 

Thanks for a prompt reply to keep the flame burning!!

And I also apologise to the group for inconvinience caused (if any) by me,

bringing in some issues tangentially.

 

I agree, when I look back, I may have gone personal but these are just "my"

opinions just like yours... Did you see a hint of resentment in my mail that

backfired to me!!??

No hard feelings please. In these discussions...Nobody is a winner...we have to

try to get the best out of this.

========

||aanou bhadhraaha krathavo yanthu vishwathaha||

"Let noble thoughts come to us from all sides..."

(Rig Veda 1.89.1)

=========

May be my criticisms are unjust (unjust criticisms are often disguised

compliments!!!)...in your heart of ur hearts you know what is it... Noone needs

to console nor repurcate.

 

okay let me try to justify my statements....I would like to be proved wrong by

someone if I cant prove it right..(btw there is nothing right or wrong in this

world..only thinking makes it so)

1) "I think" Its the hatred and prejudice that stops any person from

refusing/deying to help a needy in distress... Just cos its a paki child if i

say i dont help...there shud be an inherent reason for that.

2) None is an idiot and all are idiots. There is no question of idiots or

brilliants or wise men. For a moment forget abt krishna forget abt what he

said...I am not a pundit well versed with gita or mahabharatha... I am not yet

ready to throw some light on whether krishna was a god since I am quite ignorant

still.. I dont want to know either. As long as I come to know what is GOD .. I

dont mind if it was krishna or nanak or jesus or even sardarji.

3) I am NOT against ur questioning of krishna. I just thought of giving you a

feedback, take it or leave it..its ru wish

But i know one thing for sure...before any sadhana, there are lots of filters

set in our mind that have to be removed. And pride prejudice vanity lust

jealousy envy etc are a few among them. This is cleansing oneself.

4) And coming to this long way to go or far behind aspect. This is a journey not

a destination. None are here to overtake one another. All are at same distance

untill you are there...For me, it doesnt matter, if someone says am not in the

qualifying arena too...

Everyone is a teacher and a student all the time everywhere...Lets learn

together.

5) regarding your participation in group and the nuisance thing...You are,

rather your innner self, is the best judge. Ask yourself, what do you think??

 

To clarify, I am not a part of discussion "why sri krishna should be called

GOD?". I am just a keen observer and look forward to gain something out of

this...

 

Alakh Niranjan!,

--Pradeep!

 

PS: Again on a tangential note: worth a thought...look at this quote by john

gardener.

"The things you learn in maturity are not simple things such as acquiring

information and skills. That's for kids. You learn not to engage in

self-destructive behavior. You learn not to burn up energy in anxiety. You learn

to manage your tensions, if you have any, which you do. You learn that self-pity

and resentment are among the most toxic of drugs. You learn that the world loves

talent but pays off on character.

You learn that most people are neither for you nor against you, they are

thinking about themselves. You learn that no matter how much you strive to

please, there are some people in this world who are not going to love you, a

lesson that is at first troubling and then really quite relaxing"

[Guest guest]

Namaskar to all... _/\_

 

Wowwww...such a lively discussion these days! I, for one, am very

glad to see such thoughtful posts.

 

In regards to charity, I completely agree with Uma's self-checks. Is

my motivation for giving (of time, money, or anything else) selfish

or selfless? I think it is important that we all ask ourselves these

things.

 

Also, if I am going to give to a charity that may end up feeding

hungry Al-Queda children, I would be HAPPY about it -- and I am an

American (born and raised)! I would be happy to know that my money

would be going towards the generation that may be able to change the

state of this world today.

 

My mother has a saying: kill 'em with kindness. This means that one

should treat everyone with the utmost kindness, even those that are

against us. Someone who is against us now will not be so after a

great deal of kindness from us. Kindness and helpfulness chisel at

even the stoniest of hearts.

 

Ammachi has this to say about selfless service and charity:

 

"Children, when you serve the world selflessly, you are serving

Mother Herself."

 

She says that serving others is the same as serving God, which makes

sense from the non-dualist point of view. However, what about from

the dualist view? Serving and helping others is as noble an effort as

serving God directly.

 

With love,

Erica

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ajit and other members of the group,

 

In this post I will not be voicing my opinion, but will be putting

forth a few questions. I request the members to answer these

questions so that we can try to derive a conclusion on charity.

 

1. If there is a baby weed growing in the garden, would you pull it

out, or show compassion towards it and let it grow? If you let it

grow, it'll be detrimental to the life of the plant and ultimately

destroy your entire garden / farm / field?

 

2. If a person has severe diabetes, resulting in a sore in the leg

followed by gangrene etc, don't we amputate the leg, even though it

is our own? Or would we say, it's a part of me, and i'll let it be

even if it'll be detreimental to my life? Don't we amputate it though

it's a part of our very own self?

 

3. If there is a worm say tape worm, ring worm growing inside us,

would we show compassion to it and thank the worm saying that we are

indeed fortunate to get an opportunity to be a host to the worm? Or

would we take ant-helminthics and try to get rid of the worm? If we

accidentally swallow an egg / ova of worms and if ther's a baby worm

growing, wold we feed it b'cos it's only a baby? will it change it's

mind and not harm us when it grows up b'cos we fostered it while it

was young? istn't the most prudent thing to do would be to get rid of

it?

 

Now I put forth the question that Ajit asked. Must we do charity to a

child of an enemy camp knowing that the child may be a potential

terrorist?

 

Looking forward to your answers?

 

Thank you.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Saat sri akaal Sardar Saheb

 

I realize I have sure touched a nerve! One thing I must say

though .. when you presented a challenge/judgement to our members

with questions on some touchy subjects, most have responded to you

with respect and presented their thoughts. Don't you feel it would

be nice if you too would take challenges to your ideas without

getting defensive? And btw .. when someone touches my nerves, I

take it as an opportunity to clear out what ever ego issue is

causing that reaction in me.

 

>can u or tatwamasi Know where I stand ? Post 5435

 

No Sir .. no one knows where you are on your journey. My statement

is with respect to your words. Truth is ONE only, presented to many

in different forms. Divisiveness is man-made and is perpetuated by

man for purusal of their own ego. My religion, My God .. possession

exists only in the mind of the little self. God, Dieties belongs to

none, no one possessess them, they simply ARE .. no one can hurt

them, they dont need our armies nor our egos for their protection.

If they wish to be protected, they will do so in spite of us!

 

If anyone discriminates on the basis of caste, creed, race, gender,

religion then those ideas are coming from their baggage of samskaras

and vasanas - reflecting ego, which the sadhak journeys to transcend

by its slow and steady removal over lifetimes. So yes, I do maintain

my view that those who discriminate giving charity to children on

the basis of these factors have some ego issues to work out. Don't

we all have many areas of work to do? I guess since I am very

comfortable about needing tons of lifetimes to work my garbage out,

I tend to assume others are too!

 

 

Post 5432

 

>Why Krishna arranged brutal killing of Kamnsa, Jarasandha, 101

Kauravas, Karan, jayadratha,Dronacharya and million others.

 

Many have brought up the story of Mahabharat to justify war. Each

group of people looks at the issues from the perspective of their

own lens, and insists that "God" told them to fight for justice!

 

Here is my problem with that viewpoint. Neither you nor I are either

Sri Krishna or even Arjuna. Speaking for myself, I don't have

Krishna ji's direct cell phone number. Furthermore, even when I

connect with the voice of "Krishna" indirectly, I have difficulty in

differentiating whether the voice is that of my own ego, (collective

resentment from my losses, hurt, anger etc), or is it truely the

voice of Krishan Bhagwan. My practice hasn't reached those levels

yet. My concern remains that of Arjuna, but he was lucky - he had

Bhagwan next to him. I don't in the same way as he did and therefore

I choose a path of caution.

 

Besides, doesn't everything happen in accordance with the "Will of

God" (to use bhaktas langauge) anyway?

 

>Mohammed Goouri attacked India 17 times and each time he was

fogiven by us ....

 

I'm not sure where Mahamud Gauri came into our conversation. I

thought we were talking about giving charity to children? Who talked

about "forgiving" killers and destroyers?

 

For me, what remains of foremost importance is the attitude behind

any action taken. I have repeated this story of the Samurai warrior

several times. A Samurai warrior was fighting his enemy. As he

cowerd over him on the ground, he was about to deal his final blow

when the enemy spat on his face. The warrior stepped back. He

said, 'Your action has made me angry and I don't fight when under

the influence of emotion. I will return and complete the fight

tomorrow'. He did and won!

 

This is my approach to all actions. If we are acting under the

influcence of anger, hate, resentment, greed and other ego centered

issues, our actions are tainted. This to me is the power of Karma

Yoga. These emotions do not hurt the one who is hated, but the hater

himself. In my sadhana, my goal is to eliminate such negative

influences on myself.

 

 

s_v_c_s wrote in post 5441

 

>>If there is a baby weed growing in the garden, would you pull it

out, or show compassion towards >>it and let it grow? ...... If

there is a worm say tape worm, ring worm growing inside us, would we

>>show compassion to it and thank the worm saying that we are indeed

fortunate to get an opportunity >to be a host to the worm?

 

I am not sure I would compare a child to a "tape worm" or a "baby

weed". In fact, if I am not mistaken, in Hindusim children upto a

certain age are considered to be the purest of souls and are

expected to be treated as such!

 

_/\_ TaT Twam asi

 

Uma