Charity towards enemies

[Guest guest]

Sardarji,

 

Great point!!!

The good has to win over the evil -- Thats the basic philosophy. I agree.

 

But I think, the confusion here is due the generalisation that has been made,

when u say enemies or hindus etc.

Noone is saying forgive the terrorists, but what have the children done?

By saying that children of alqedhas/pakis dont deserve any mercy, you yourself

seem to be generalising things.

I think this is how, as a result of same line of thinking, heriditary caste

system was started.

 

On your same lines of thinking, Narasimha shud never have spared even prahlad

(since he was born to rakshasa)!!!.

 

Well, I didnt know that this forum was to discuss only hinduism. I thought

spirituality is not bound to any specific religion.

 

Alakh Niranjan,

Pradeep

PS: Said and done, answer this to yourself: What is that eventually you want to

convey and want do you expect to hear from us ideally?

 

sardarajitsingh <the-hermit wrote:

Dear Masi ji,

 

Bhngra rapper saw me "Challengeing" you saw me as "lower souls"

who needs to tread far away to reach your level. Someone saw me as a

person spreading"hate" towards a religion. If I take your words at

their face value as you beautifully said"world is as we are" then i

need not reply as what you saw in me was in you people actually. I

just worked as a mirror.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ajit,

 

I have already discussed about Sati in post # 5173. To the best of

our knowledge we are all helping you.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ajit and other members,

 

Before voicing my opinion allow me to tell you a couple of stories.

There was once a saint who realised the Self, and he was wandering

from village to village. As he was entering one of the villages,

there were a group of robbers who spotted him and thinking the

sanyasin to be in possession of some money, confronted the sanyasin

and asked him to surrender all his money and possession. The sanyasin

replied, that he had renounced everything and is in possession of

nothing. The robbers were not to be appeased very easily and insisted

the sanyasin to surrender. When the sanyasin kept denying of any

possession repeatedly, the robbers were angered, and beat him up

ruthlessly. The villagers who were present far away saw this and came

running to rescue the sanyasin. Before the villagers could reach the

robbers escaped. The villagers nursed the sanyasin and asked him, '

Revered sir, please tell us who attacked you, and we will take

necessary action against them." The sanyasin opened his eyes, and

looking at the man standing with folded arms in front of him

replied, ' It was you who attacked me.'

 

He said this b'cos he had already realised the Self and for him all

are one and the same. He knew no distinction between the assailant

and the rescuer. All were different manifestations of Brahman to him.

 

That is the stage of nonduality and we are all far from it. We do see

the differences among people and we have the feelings of 'i'

and 'mine.' 'I' is different from'you'. We are in the stage of

duality and there will be a different set of rules that apply to us

who are in the stage of duality.

 

What is wrong in duality may not be so when one is in nonduality. For

eg. A child cannot differentiate much between reality and movies and

may try to incorporate what it learns from the movies into real life.

For this reason it is wrong for a child to see action movies. However

when the child becomes more than 18 yrs of age, this adolescent can

now differentiate between movies and reality and hence it is not

wrong for the adolescent to watch action movies. What was wrong as a

child is not wrong now. Similarly what may be wrong while we are in

duality may not so when we become Advaitis.

 

contd.. in my next post.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

You can put off fire with water. Similarly you can put off hatred and

vengeance with love. The love that we have must be so great so as to

overpower the enemies hatred, then there can be no enemies. The

enemies will change and will not pose a harm if our love is so great.

 

There are real life instances to prove this. One such is from the

life of Mahatma Gandhi. Please see post # 3117 .

 

Ramana Maharshi too showed how love can over power hatred and can

even change the nature of the enemies at least in your presence.

Maharshi was a self realised soul and had compassion towards all,

including animals, birds and insects. When the monkeys had internal

disputes, they approached the Maharshi for help. The other animals

including the snake, lion, deer etc used to visit Maharshi for His

Darshan. While in the presence of Maharshi the lion , snake used to

forget their real nature, and used to be peaceful. The lion and the

deer sat next to each other as if they were the best of friends. The

snake and the mongoose sat next to each other as if they loved each

other very much. Such is the effect one can have if one has

ovepowering love.

 

Well we were talking about animals, and how their nature changes in

the presence of Infinite Love. This is true for humans too.

 

Once there was a man whose profession was to visit ashrams and abuse

the Swamijis there. At one point or another, the Swamijis used to

retort in anger, and he'd prove that they are not real sanyasins, for

they reacted in anger, and used to obtain money. He went to many

ashrams and finally came to Ramanshramam. He came in the morning and

started abusing the Maharshi much to the irritation of his devotees.

They wanted to throw him out as they cudn't bear to hear such

forbidden words against the beloved Guru. However Maharshi was calm

and didn't react at all. He thought of new ways of insulting and

didn't give up insulting for many hours hoping to ellicit a response

from the Maharshi. He was throwing slander upon slander until it

became evening. He had been absuing the whole day, yet the Maharshi

was quiet as if the person didn't exist. Growing tired of his

efforts, he realised his mistake and fell at the Maharshi's feet and

begged for forgiveness.

 

This is just another instance to show how one's own inner feeling of

love and peace can transform another's nature be it animal or human.

The lesser the feeling of hatred in the enemies heart, the faster

will be their transformation. Infinite Divine love is like the great

fire that purifies anything that is thrown into it , and it remaining

pure all the time. If the fire is small, it may be put out by a huge

trash thrown into it. But if the fire is as large as the sun, it can

burn even if the whole earth is thrown into it.

 

Now coming to the question of whether to do charity to the enemy's

child or not. It depends on us and what we want to do. No one is

forcing , or holding you at gun point to do charity to the enemy's

child.

 

If we feel it's wrong, then we needn't do it. If we however we feel

all are One, and go beyond the realms of duality, then we will know

for ourselves what to do. All are Brahman and hence who is to do

charity to whom?

 

The question here is not to do charity or not. All of us agree that

we must do charity. The question is to whom. The answer is : Do to

whomever your heart pleases. The important thing is, whenever you do,

do it with your heart fully in the task and not just for the sake of

doing it. The main point of charity is to try and love the others. So

do it whereever you think you can love. If you cannot love this

person, then do not do it, for one must not donate half hearted.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Here are a few QnA that might be helpful

 

D- On realizing samadhi , does one not obtain

sidhis [supernatural powers] also ?

 

Maharshi -

In order to display sidhis , there must be others

to recognize them. That means there is no jnana in

the one who displays them. Therefore , sidhis are

not worth a thought: jnana alone is to aimed at

and gained.

 

D - Does my realization help others ?

 

M - Yes , and it is the best help that you can possibly render

to others. Those who have discovered great truths have done

so in the still depths of the Self. But really there are no

"others" to be helped. For the Realized Being sees only the

Self,

just as the goldsmith sees only the gold while valuing it in

various jewels made of gold. When you identify yourself with

the body , name and form are there.But when you transcend the

body-consciousness , the "others" also disappear. The Realized

One does not see the world as different from

himself.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Sardarji,

 

Thank you for your comments.

 

You write ...

 

As per Durga saptshati two demons took birth (Madhu & Kaitabh), they

are ready to eat Brahma before he makes the universe. Vishnu fights

with them and kills them. Durga herself fought with Shumbha

nishumbha, Mahishasur etc. that too brutally even by drinking blood

of Raktabeeja.

 

Sardarji , there is always a literal meaning and an esoteric meaning.

 

who are Madhu and kaitabh , shunbha and nishumbha and mahisasur ? are

these external demons or are they internal demons residing in our

body ?

 

IN DURGA SAPTASHATI, THE following demons are listed ...

 

1) madhu and kaitab who represent the negative qualities of passion

and anger

 

2) raktabija who represented the seeds of desire or kama or lust

 

3) shunbha and nishumbha representing self-conceit and self-

depracation

 

4) dhunralochana who represents ignorance

 

5) mahisasur representing the great ego - the demon mahisasur was so

called because he had the head of a budffalo (mahisa) - buffaloes are

known for their stubborness. THe ego in a man is also veruy

strong ... men will give up anything but are very reluctant to give

up their egos!

 

in the durga saptashati, every time Goddess Kali drank up the blood

of demon Rakthabija, another raktanija would appear. human desires

are like that. no sooner than one desire is satisfied , another will

crop up !

 

in reality, all these demons are not something external! they

represent all the negative energies in ourselves which we need to

conquer! by slaying these demons with her multple weapons, the great

goddess is helping us to march forward in our spiritual journey!

 

sardarji, you comment ...

 

Then when ever God incarnated he killed enemeis brutally. Be it

Narsimha avtaar who tore Hirnakashyap into pieces. Rama kiled Sugriv

by cheating. He killed Ravana too.

 

in narasimha avatar, hiranayakashayapu was killed ... yes, but who is

hiranyakashyapu ? is he a myth or is he something real?

hiranyakashyapu represents the "ahamlar" in every man/woman.... in

our ignorance and arrogance, we fail to recognize the "supreme"

reality ! it is this sense of xonceit and false pride that is being

destroyed !

 

again, IT WAS NOT SUGRIVA RAMA KILEED . IT WAS "BALI" who was killed

by Rama by hiding behind a tree.

 

sugriva approached rama to help. it is the duty of the king to

protect his subjects. Rama was only following the "dharma" or duty of

a king that of protecting his subjects. moreover, bali forecefully

married sugriva's wife and usurped his brother's kingdom. Rama could

relate to that for his wife seetha was also abducted by demon king

ravana.

 

furthermore, Bali is a vanar (monkey). whilke fighting with animals,

the normal rules of warfARE do not apply as rama was not fighting

another human! also. bali was liberated when he was slain by rama !

 

coming to ravana ....

 

Ten heads of Ravana represent the ten evils; ignorance (lack of

awarenes), ego, deceit, greed, violence, lying, stealing, adultery )

and coveteousness. By-products of these evils are jealousy, fear,

contempt (disrespect), hatred, defamation, arrogance, lust, etc.

 

while demolishing the ten heads of Ravana , LORD RAMA DEMONSTRATED

THE ETERNAL TRUTH that we need to overcome the negative energies

(vrittis) in order to progress in the spiritual path ...

 

alternatively, the ten heads also represent the five kamendroyas and

five jnanedriyas.

 

you further wtite

 

In Krishna avtaar whole life was dedicated to punish the enemies.

 

this will require a whole new post ... but suffice it to say.

whomever Krishna demolished , they all were liberated from kamsa to

putana !

 

you conclude

 

Islam, sikhism and hinduism, are same on this path. There is no

place of charity towards enemy in these religions.

 

this view is not totally correct. hinduism advocates more tolerance

and patience ... that is why it is called Santana dharma or eternal

truth...

 

Namashkar !