Meat-eaters & Moksha

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

Please Everyone Acceppt my most humble Obiesances! I hope this

Meets you all in Good saadhanna, and the Best of Health!

 

I just wrote my Letter, to Try to Explain the Question! I am not a Pure

Soul, But i am a devotee of Sri Krsna, And Lord Caitanyana Maha Prabhu! Lord

Caitanya Said,To chant Hare Krsna ,Un- offensively, We must have a humble

attitude, Like the grass We walk on, More Humble than the Grass in a Feld! I

never Meant to offend anyone, On this board, or off this wonderful board, where

we can all express, how we think of the Lord! please, Everyone, Acceppt My

Humble appoligies!! I wish to say, I want all, to forgive my offences, made to

them! If anything, Im just trying to Help, But alas,I am not a Pure Devotee!

Please accept my humble attempt to take back,any offenses, I have made at your

Lotus Feet!!

Hare Krsna!,

 

Your Humle servant Jaya Kesava

dasa,I never Mean Harm when i Post Here,I just Try to Tell Everyone, what my

Gurudeva Taught me!All that you meet,Tell them about Lord Krsna!Please

forgive my offences,Jaya Radhe , Your servant Jaya Kesava dasa

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

laxman_bhatia <no_reply>

 

 

Meat-eaters & Moksha

Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:42:15 -0000

 

Thankyou Krsnajoe, yes you are right that they do it out of ignorance.

 

But do you wish to say All meat eaters have no right to Moksha ?

[Guest guest]

Dear Jaya Kesava Das

 

You are right, this board is about expressing your feelings and how

you perceive Sadhna and "God".

 

Just as one has the right to express their views, others too have

the right to take it as they wish. If someone feels offended then

they are welcome to express it too. This give and take is key to a

healthy dialogue, which in turn, is key to a healthy spiritual

community where each one is respectful of the other's path.

 

And I welcome you to always feel free to share your perspective and

please do not fee you need to constantly apologize to everyone for

everything you do or say.

 

*Humility*, while is an important instrument of dissolving ego, is

unique to certain cultures, and is often misunderstood in different

societies. That is why Asians in US are sometimes considered "weak",

and un-assertive and sent to classes to overcome this "weakness"!

Those who attempt to deal with this on their own often go from being

passive and humble to aggressive and arrogant, in an attempt to deal

with such problems.

 

This then takes me to the point about Generalizations which leads to

stereotyping of groups of people often leading to unhealthy

attitudes and consequences. It is very hard to be accurate when we

comment about "All Indians" or "All Americans" since it encompasses

a huge variety of values and attitudes. In my 25 years of living and

involvement with mainstream population in the US, I have come across

more "Indians" in US and more "Americans" in India, than I had ever

imagined!

 

I do sincerely respect your stand on the various issues we discuss

and hope you continue to share them with us!.

 

Thank you

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

 

 

 

, "Jaya Kesava Dasa Fullman"

<krsnajoe@h...> wrote:

> Dear Friends,

>

I

> never Meant to offend anyone, On this board, or off this wonderful

board, where we can all express, how we think of the Lord! ?

[Guest guest]

Thank You so Much, Uma,I took your message to my heart,Jai Radhe,

 

Your servant,Jaya Kesava Dasa

[Guest guest]

thats ok but nobody else has written anything about meat and moksha.

Is it true that non-vetarians will not attain Moksha ? Diet has any

connection with Sadhna ?

 

regards

[Guest guest]

People living in body consciousness cannot hope to get salvation without being

100% Sattvic in their thoughts, actions and speech. In meat production some form

of violence has taken place along the line, Therefore it is not considered

Sattvic food. No one is admitted to the realm of God without 100% purity. Three

gatekeepers had to be thrown out and down from that realm for committing an

offence against the four Kumaras, the devotees of the Lord.

 

Hari Om

radhakutir

 

-

"laxman_bhatia" <no_reply>

<>

12 November, 2003 10:39 AM

Re: Meat-eaters & Moksha

 

 

> thats ok but nobody else has written anything about meat and moksha.

> Is it true that non-vetarians will not attain Moksha ? Diet has any

> connection with Sadhna ?

>

> regards

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

I have been followig the discussions and infer that there are quite a few people

here in this group whose knowledge has turned into wisdom. So I approach you

guys to find answers for questions from my confused thoughts....

 

I have always found hard to convince some people with these issues, attributing

to.. myself being in confused state most of the times...

 

These ppl fall into 3 classes... Some in only one and few other in more than one

class

 

0) Meat Eating:

I've seen some of my friends, by birth brahmins but became non-vegetarians. They

"say" and indeed seem to be firm believers of GOD;

They give me reasons of rishis eating meat after sacrifices and also that they

are maintaining ecological balance.

 

1) Smoking + (Occasional) Drinking + Drugs?:

These are categories of ppl so-called "fun loving"/"freaking around"/"cool";

Pubbing category. The reason they give is : "If it is in control/ within limits

and doesnt interfere in others life then its absolutely fine"

 

2) Dressing, Flirting, Carnal desires:

I see some of my frnds(mostly female) dressing aggressively/vulgurly(??)...

The reasons they give are:

"vulgarity lies in eyes..Even during vedic times females were topless"

"God created men, women such that women dress up to attract males -- Its

natural"

"What about erotic carvings of ajantha ellora caves...."

"What about Krishna leelas??"

 

and another class

 

0) Being Indifferent to all the above:

They just say that "I dont say its BAD -- As long as they dont hurt others its

okay" Arent these ppl indirectly in favor of actions of above classes. I mean to

say that they have an inner urge but probly have a moral fear to indulge in

these activities???? Is that so???

 

I dont feel I have enough knowledge to argue/convince...i've even been

criticised that I am just very rigid on morality "thrust" upon me...

What are my responsibilities here??? I feel very troubled to keep mum and let

them make a jeopardy of their lives.

Any pointers???

 

Alakh Niranjan,

Pradeep!

 

 

 

 

Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard

 

 

[Guest guest]

My pranams to everyone

 

My two cents to the discussion.

I think it doesn't matter what you eat or for that matter what you

wear or do. More than the act the motive behind it is most important.

It is the soul of everything. If we loose that then it is just a

ritual. What I am trying to say is if the motive behind eating meat

is just sustainence then there is nothing wrong in it. But if the

motive behind is other than that then whether one eats meat or one

eats rice, it is the same amount of sin being committed, because

personally to me both - the animal and the plant - have equal value.

Here if we do not understand the essence of eating, then it defeats

the purpose. It is true with anything, if we loose the focus of the

core purpose of any act then it becomes a mechanical action.

 

For that matter, if meat were so bad for "moksha" (liberation) then

how come milk is so good? Everyone knows how milk is produced and how

much turmoil the cow has to go through. The calf which depends upon

that milk, is denied it very basic right. How humane is that? I

think, sometimes it is necessary before accepting any idea from

any "source" that it is questioned thoroughly. Its grain of truth

must be tested soundly. Only then should it be accepted. Otherwise it

gives rise to blind belief and fanatism.

 

just some ramblings of an infant..

shubhanan

 

note: please forgive me for the long pause in posts... its last month

of semester and I am tied down to studies

So many interesting topics come to my head but work keeps me away

from expressing them among the wonderful people of this group.

 

 

, SRI RADHA KUTIR <radhaktr@v...>

wrote:

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Krsnajoe,

 

Sorry I couldn't reply earlier, as I didn't access the internet for

the past few days. First let me thank you for your reply.

 

I agree with you when you say that the only thing to be desired is

Krishna Himself and that Moksha will come by itself.

 

Swami Vivekananda said, that one must not desire anything, not even

the heavens or Moksha. For when the mind is tainted with desires, the

actions that follow are tainted too. However desires are difficult to

control and as a remedy to this, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said, that

our desire can be redirected to the One.

 

Moksha will come on its own accord, and we mustn't waste our time

concentrating on it. Instead we must concentrate on our sadhna, and

when the time is ripe what must come will come.

 

To give an analogy, while we are students, getting good grades must

be our goal, but we must not spend the whole time thinking about it.

It'll lead us nowhere. Instead we must concentrate on studying well,

and mastering everything that is required by us. If we do this

correctly, good grades will come on its own accord.

 

So too Moksha will come on its own accord and not by contemplating or

desiring it. What we must desire is the Lord alone ( if we must

desire).

 

Thank you once again for sharing your thoughts Krnsajoe.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Dear S V C S,

 

Please accept my must Humble Obiesances!!Thank You so much,as I

dont want to offend anyone!You have made me Feel, Very Welcome to be

here!Can i ask Your Name??Thank You, so much for your thoughtful answer!Your

Humble servant,Jaya Kesava Dasa

 

JAI RADHE!!

[Guest guest]

Dear Members,

 

I would Like to offer my humble obiesances to everyone, on this

wonderful board!I will just answer this one question,about meat eating,and

Moksha!

 

In the scripures, it is said,that if one is starving, even if one is a

vaisnava, a devotee of Krsna, then one may have to kill an animal ,to

survive!But where in the world, can we not find grains, and vegetables, to

eat!Everyone can get rice,at least for substance, it has been happening in

India for millions of years, because sages, wouldnt even Kill an ant,because

of the karmic reaction,as, to come back as an ant,in the next life! You say

the cow goes thru torment, in giving us milk! I have been at many Barns full

of Krsna;s Cows, and it is quite a nice atmosphere, in the milk barn! and you

say there is not enough milk for us, and the calves! Krsna is so kind,he

gives the cow, about 3 times the milk, nessassary for the calf, so we may use

the excess milk to drink, make cheese, butter, yogart, cream, and many kinds of

milk sweets, can be offered to Krsna, and taken as Maha Prasadam! Krsna says

the cow should be treated, as our mother, because we use her extra milk, as

substanance, and it is used in temples of the Lord, all over the world! As far

as the grains and vegetables used, to make an offering to Krsna, and then

taken as Prasadam(the Lords Mercy), in the process of offering these things

to Krsna,the Karma of the Vegetables, being Killed,are given Human Births,in

their next life, from being offered to Krsna! So there is only good being

done,By offerring these things to Krsna! Krsna,(God) does not require

anything from us, yet he says, in the Bhagavad gita,("If you offer me a

Fruit,a flower,a Leaf,or water,with love and devotion,then I will accept

it") so vegetables could be counted as a Leaf ,a Fruit, Or a Flower,Yes?So, when

we turn, and listen to Krsna's words,He tells us how to have a Rasa,

Relationship, with Him! In this way, when we take one step toward

Krsna, He Takes many steps toward You! You cannot justify the slauter houses,

in this country, Killing Krsnas Cows, to enjoy the taste of Flesh! There will

be no Mukhti, without first, following Krsna's direction, of how to Go home

Back to Godhead! If we eat the Cow, Srila Prabhupada said,for every hai,r on

the cows body we eat, we will come back as a cow,t o be killed again, in many

uncountable lifetimes! So you may try to justify,e ating the cow, and say you

will get mukhti, but you are only fooling yourself! I am just saying what is

in the Bhagavad gita, Krsna's words,a nd iI am just trying to save you, millions

of births, as a cow, to be killed and eaten, as you have done! That is called

Karma! I think Ive said my peace, I wish you all good health, and good !

Please forgive me, if i offened anyone! I only want to say,what my gurudeva has

taught me, Your Humble servant,,,,,,,,,,

 

Jaya Kesava

Dasa

 

JAI RADHE JAI KRSNA JAI GURUDEVA

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

lotuswithin <no_reply>

My two cents to the discussion.

I think it doesn't matter what you eat or for that matter what you

wear or do.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

I am a bit surprised at the contention made.

 

>From a scientific point of view, the human digestive

system is designed for a herbivorous diet. All carnivorous

animals have a relatively shorter alimentary canal so as

to eliminate the waste products quickly. Presence of digested

meat products in the alimentary canal for a longer period

is undesirable because of the toxins emanating from it.

 

These toxins can hamper one's thoughts and can hamper progress

in spirituality. However, it can surely not be linked to

impeding one from obtaining Moksha. Innumerous hindu scriptures

point to different ways to moksha. Can only human beings obtain

moksha and not meat eating animals? Ask yourself!

 

It is futile to continue

the discussion which has no basis. If you elevate yourselves

to a higher spiritual plane, you will easily see that these

kinds of discussion have no meaning.

 

More later,

 

N.

[Guest guest]

Meat Eating

 

You are absolutely correct when you say that meat eating has nothing

to do with realization "moxa".

 

Some of the learned members may already know but would like to quote

some references and let the members decide for themselves.

 

Our Vedic sages really had no restriction meat eating.

 

na maa.nsa bhaxaNe doSho na maddye naca maithune .. mnusmuR^iti

5.56 ..

 

Meaning: Eating meat, drinking alcohol (drink that intoxicates), and

sex is not a dooShaa.

 

uxNo hi p~ncadasha saaka.m pacanti vi.nshtim .

utaahamadmi pIva idubhaa kuxI pR^iNanti me .. rg veda 10.86.14 ..

 

Meaning: Heare Indra himself says, thirtyfive bulls are cooked for

me I eat them become strong. This helps strengthen my biceps.

 

In the context of honoring son-in-law, a graduate, special dignitary

(guest) it is said :

 

"naamaa.nso madhuparko bhavati" (Ashvaalaayana gR^ihyasUtra 1.24.26)

 

Meaning: madhuparka is not considered to be complete without meat.

 

The story of Sage Vishvaamitra having eaten a dog leg is very well

known.

 

Buddha died of food poisoning after eating preparation pork (minced

meat known as kukurmutta) at this house of his disciple, chanDa.

 

Animial sacrifice was not regarded as "himsaa". Manusmruti says –

 

"yadnyaartha pashavaH sR^ishTaaH svayameva svaya.mbuvaa .

yadnyashca bhuutvtai sarvasya tasmaad yadnye vadho.avadhaH .. manu.

5.39 .."

 

Meaning – brahmadeva created these animials for yaj~na. ya~jna is

beneficial for everybody, therefore animal sacrifice in ya~jna is

not "himsaa".

 

There is even a pashugaayatrii, it was spoken into the ears of the

animal that was being sacrificed.

 

pashupaashaaya vidmahe, shiraccchedaaya dhiimahi, tannaH pashuH

pracodayaat

 

However, this does not justify eating meat, but at the same token

eating meat has nothing to do with realization and moxa.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

 

, dr_nachiketa <no_reply> wrote:

> Dear Friends,

>

> I am a bit surprised at the contention made.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Yadu,

 

With due respect I submit that your message is out of context, for the purpose

of spiritual Sadhana that this group is supposed to be discussing. We are

talking about people who are not yet God Realized and are living as human beings

in body consciousness. At best they accept the scriptural statements that "I am

not the body" but they still see the world around them as real. When one faces a

life problem the idealism of the philosophy is immediately forgotten. Under

these circumstances all Prakarnas emphasize on the absolute internal

and external purity for the seekers. Even traces of violence through body, mind

and speech is not acceptable for realizing the goal. When one loses the

distinction between the meat of one's own body and that of another being say an

animal, it is a different matter. That stage for most of us is yet a far cry.

What we should be posting in this group are the quotations, from scriptures and

other learned personalities, about the requirements for a seeker to make

spiritual progress for the ascent of consciousness. Here I quote below a few

lines from Swami Krishnananda's book on "SADHANA The Spiritual Way".

 

"The existence of a human individual in society is tremendously influenced by

the nature of the society around, so much so that one cannot easily, as a

physical and psychological individual, wrench oneself from social relations.

Society has become a part of our very skin, and to peel off social contact would

be like peeling our own skin. Yet, some super-normal adventure has to be

embarked upon when we take to the practice of pure spirituality, or Yoga."

 

Here is another quotation regarding meat eating and spirituality from Swami

Sivananda ji Maharaj of Divine Life Society, Rishikesh:

 

GARLIC AND ONIONS: A professor put a query to the Master, "I suppose

that besides meat, spices also should be avoided."

 

"You can take a little of it," said the Master. "It will help

digestion. You should avoid garlic, onions and too much of pungent

foods. They disturb tranquility and serenity of mind. Meditation then

becomes difficult. Garlic and onions are equal to meat."

 

Scriptures tell us that the spiritual path is like walking on a razor's edge and

one has to be alert in one's Sadhana at all times. The stories in the Puranas

about animal sacrifices has a different purpose, it was to bring on the main

stream those who were used to indiscriminate killing and flesh eating or for

those who wished to enjoy life hereafter and did not care for emancipation, and

is out of context here. Examples of Indra and Vishvamitra have no meaning here

unless it helps us to make spiritual progress. Buddha did not allow his

disciples to eat that pork.

 

Vedic rituals (totally different and a vast subject in itself) with or without

animal sacrifices do not lead the practitioner to Moksha. At best, the Punya

(merit) aspect of it, may give one a chance to enjoy the heavenly delights for a

specified period of time. At the end of that period one is obliged to come back

to the Mritu Loka (The world of mortals) to suffer the Papa (sin) component of

the ritual or the residue Karma in one's stock. "Kisheene Puney Mertiyalokam

Vishanti" (GITA) "Having enjoyed the extensive heaven-world, they return to this

world of mortals on the stock of their merit being exhausted.

 

For the purpose of making spiritual progress on the path to Moksha, Viveka and

Vairagya (discrimination and dispassion) are the two important elements a seeker

of Truth must employ in his or her day-to-day living. Mind and intellect, are

the only two instruments we have to discriminate between the right and the

wrong, which are made of the subtle elements of food that we consume. If we eat

meat that has been produced by giving pain to another being, it must influence

our mind and intellect and therefore it cannot be conducive to spiritual

Sadhana. I think love and compassion is the only way and not violence.

 

Hari Om

radhakutir

 

"Repetition of God's Name enables the devotee to feel the divine

presence, the divine glory and the divine consciousness within himself

and also everywhere. How powerful is God's Name! When one sings His

Name and hears His sound, he is unconsciously raised to sublime

spiritual heights. He loses his body-consciousness. He is immersed in

joy and drinks deep the divine nectar of Immortality. Sankirtana brings

Darsana of God or attainment of divine consciousness easily in this

Kali Yuga." - Swami Sivananda

 

 

-

"ymoharir" <ymoharir

<>

19 November, 2003 6:38 PM

Re: Meat-eaters & Moksha

 

 

Meat Eating

 

Our Vedic sages really had no restriction meat eating.

 

na maa.nsa bhaxaNe doSho na maddye naca maithune .. mnusmuR^iti

5.56 ..

[Guest guest]

Meat eating is, I firmly believe, not for the serious spiritual

aspirant. But once you have achieved realization, you can eat

anything without incurring bad karma. coz you are no longer an

ordinary mortal tied to desires.

meat eating will affect you in two ways. One, of course, is the bad

karma you incur. it means you suffer more to shed that bad karma as

you progress on the path. second, it means you not only havent got

rid of your craving for meat (any desire is a hinderance), you also

have helped that meat eating habit take firmer root in your brain.

Each time you eat meat, you add more load to the one you carry up the

spiritual path!

Even as i write this, i must confess, i have taken meat after staying

away from it for a couple of months. it was not desire but the

circumstances (staying alone in a big city doing a really hectic full-

time job. You dont have much choices to make here!)that made me take

it. Here, I feel, the laws can be relaxed. You still do incur the

karma, though. (Critics would accuse me of not having enough will

power. Well, the spiritual path is not for critics;))

Ideally, it would be best to stay off meat and other non-sattvic

foods. Man was never created to make his stomach a graveyard!

Regards

 

 

, SRI RADHA KUTIR <radhaktr@v...>

wrote:

> People living in body consciousness cannot hope to get salvation

without being 100% Sattvic in their thoughts, actions and speech. In

meat production some form of violence has taken place along the line,

Therefore it is not considered Sattvic food. No one is admitted to

the realm of God without 100% purity. Three gatekeepers had to be

thrown out and down from that realm for committing an offence against

the four Kumaras, the devotees of the Lord.

>

> Hari Om

> radhakutir

>

> -

> "laxman_bhatia" <no_reply>

> <>

> 12 November, 2003 10:39 AM

> Re: Meat-eaters & Moksha

>

>

> > thats ok but nobody else has written anything about meat and

moksha.

> > Is it true that non-vetarians will not attain Moksha ? Diet has

any

> > connection with Sadhna ?

> >

> > regards

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

 

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I saw a few posts that gave examples of Rishis having ate meat. There

were examples quoted of Vishwamitra, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa , and

even Krishna and Rama.

 

Here we need to see one thing. The question is not whether the above

mentioned people ate meat or not, but are we like them? Well

Vishwamitra ate meat, and we also want to follow it. But there were

so many other things that he did. Are we following those too? He was

a king, and renounced his kingdom and the world and came to live in a

hut, wearing only a saffron cloth, he performed penance the whole

day. Are we doing that? We follow only that which we want to, and say

we are like them.

 

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa saw the Goddess in all the women and he even

prayed to his wife, for he saw the Divine in her. Are we like that?

He was self realised. Are we too? He spent the whole day in

contemplation of the Divine Mother. What do we contemplate on the

whole day.

 

We conveniently choose to neglect these things, and only point out

that he smoked the hookah and ate meat, so it's not wrong. Yes it's

not wrong, provided we are in the stage he was in. Until we reach

that stage it definitely is wrong. It definitely hampers with our

spiritual progress.

 

One may ask, ' how can the same habit be wrong for us, and not matter

for them?" The answer is pretty simple. To go back to the same child

and action movie example. : " It is wrong for a child to see an

action movie, for it cannot distinguish the right from the wrong, and

it may hamper or retard the mental growth of the child. Contrarily,

when the child is older than 18, it is in a better position to

distinguish the right and the wrong, and at this age, it doesn't

matter which movie he/she watches."

 

What was wrong to do as a child, does not matter when one grows up.

Similarly, What is wrong and could be detrimental to our spiritual

growth may not matter when we reach a particular level in our

spiritual growth. However, until then, it does matter.

 

This is why all the Rishis say that control of meat eating is a very

valuable spiritual aid. Maharshi too said, ' ( as quoted in my

previous post) " Vegetarian diet is a great aid and expedites

spiritual progress. When one reaches a particular stage it does not

matter what one eats. But until then, a vegetarian diet surely helps."

 

Maharshi never forced anyone to do anything, so he said mildly that

it helps. It's upto us to follow it or not.

 

How meat eating hampers our progress, i'll write in the next post.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna!

 

Everyone please accept my humble obiesances!In the Bhagavad Gita

Krsna Says",If you offer me with Love and devotion,A Leaf,A Fruit,A flower

or water,I WILL ACCEPT IT".

 

You cannot offer Krsna What he doesnt want! If we want our food to be

blessed, by offerring it to the lord, you must offer Vegetairian Food! Krsna

will not accept Meat! And never offer Krsna Meat, it will be a great

offence! There is no way, in ancent India, Did even common people eat the

cow! The cow is conscidered our mothers! And also Lord Krsna Favors the cow! I

think if you contribute to the killing of cows, By taking the Meat they were

Killed For, it is a very embarasing thing , for Indians to do, Y et alone

LowBorn Americans , Who had no idea what they were doing. Well they all know

now,By the Grace of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,T hat Cow Killing ,and

Eating, is Most adbonable! Please dont eat Mother Cow,

 

Your Servant,Jaya

Kesava dasa

HARE KRSNA HARE RAMA

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

s_v_c_s <no_reply>

 

 

Re: Meat-eaters & Moksha

Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:00:23 -0000

 

I saw a few posts that gave examples of Rishis having ate meat. There

were examples quoted of Vishwamitra, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa , and

even Krishna and Rama.

[Guest guest]

Meat or no Meat. Actually Sadhana is related to your Mind and mental

habits. you need food to keep your body healthy.

Of course food at times can create problems.

In Geeta Krishna said nothing takes place without his wish.

I heard that Draupadi used to cook twentyone types of Meat Curry for

her five husbands but I dont think i have ever heard that Krishna

told Draupadi to cook vegetable for her husbands.

 

It is not the food that counts- it is mind that lead us in our

sadhana path.

 

I hope to hear about this from Respected silentsoulji and

Tatwamasiji.

 

ananyatumi

[Guest guest]

Dear ananyatumi,

 

I agree with you the food or food habits are not the factor for our

sadhana to Mokshya.

 

I would also request the Learned sadhakas to advise us whether

Krishna ever asked Pandavas not to eat Meat.

 

Moreover, I hope you will agree that plants have their Life too. So

why slaughter them.

 

mousumiz

 

, ananyatumi <no_reply> wrote:

> Meat or no Meat. Actually Sadhana is related to your Mind and

mental habits. you need food to keep your body healthy.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to patita-pavana,

mahabhagavat, simha-guru Srila Prabhupada.

The Vedas describe as acceptable that one goat may be sacrificed

to Kali Ma a month. In India there are butcher shops declaring their

wares to be "Kali prasadam." This is bogus. The Vedas never intended

that enough animals be sacrificed to Shakti-devi to support a meat-

eating lifestyle. This is called manufactured modes of worship and it

is beneficial neither in this lifetime nor the next.

The prayer for allowed meat-eating involves whispering into the

animal's ear, "This time I am the man and I eat you, next time I'll

be the animal and you eat me." So we can see that if we have the

propensity for meat-eating, if we follow the Vedic injunctions

strictly, we can elevate ourselves and begin our next birth from a

higher standard than the one we are currently experiencing. That is

to say, who would be so insane as to set out to be slaughtered by

slaughtering innocent animals now! Ideally, we should take steps to

ensure that we become amara (deathless) but logic dictates that by

eating meat we implicate ourselves further in the cycles of samsara

(repeated birth and death). Offering meat to Kali or Shiva does not

negate the karmic effects. If we behave as if there are no

consequesnces to our actions, we only deceive ourselves.

The Vedas also put forth that if one eats beef, s/he must take

birth as a cow for AS MANY HAIRS AS THERE ARE ON A COW'S BODY. Nandi

is very dear to Lord Shiva, yet still so many Hindus say that Shiva

eats beef. How absurd. Kali doesn't care if we become birthless and

deathless or if we continue to wander in the material creation

endlessly. Prime example: her very famous devotee Ramakrishna

described her in a vision as being like an ecstactic girl playing

with kites. The kites' strings have bits of glass on them and as they

sway to and fro, sometimes the strings sever and the kites fly away.

Kali pays no mind as she plays in ecstacy. In this vision, we are the

kites. The paper is our flesh, the sticks supporting them are our

bones. The strings she holds is our implication in the material

world. She is not concerned with our bondage nor liberation. So if we

desire liberation, we should not turn to a plenary portion of a

plenary portion, like Kali Devi. We should turn to Whom the Srimad

Bhagavatam describes as the original source of all other divine

manifestations, Sri Krsna.

 

to be continued...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "Jaya Kesava Dasa Fullman"

<krsnajoe@h...> wrote:

> Hare Krsna!

>

> Everyone please accept my humble obiesances!In the Bhagavad Gita

> Krsna Says",If you offer me with Love and devotion,A Leaf,A Fruit,A

flower

> or water,I WILL ACCEPT IT".

>

> You cannot offer Krsna What he doesnt want! If we want our food to

be

> blessed, by offerring it to the lord, you must offer Vegetairian

Food! Krsna

> will not accept Meat! And never offer Krsna Meat, it will be a

great

> offence! There is no way, in ancent India, Did even common people

eat the

> cow! The cow is conscidered our mothers! And also Lord Krsna Favors

the cow! I

> think if you contribute to the killing of cows, By taking the Meat

they were

> Killed For, it is a very embarasing thing , for Indians to do, Y et

alone

> LowBorn Americans , Who had no idea what they were doing. Well they

all know

> now,By the Grace of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,T hat Cow

Killing ,and

> Eating, is Most adbonable! Please dont eat Mother Cow,

>

> Your Servant,Jaya

> Kesava dasa

> HARE KRSNA HARE RAMA

>

>

>

> ----Original Message Follows----

> s_v_c_s <no_reply>

>

>

> Re: Meat-eaters & Moksha

> Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:00:23 -0000

>

> I saw a few posts that gave examples of Rishis having ate meat.

There

> were examples quoted of Vishwamitra, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa , and

> even Krishna and Rama.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila

Prabhupada.

Krishna compses everything spiritual and material, but that

doesn't mean that every action constitutes devotional service. There

are guidlines to follow and offenses to be avoided.

This business that meat-eating is acceptable to Bhagavan is a

very atheistic argument. To accept that is to make a case that

animals have no soul. This is the philosophy of mlecchas and yavanas.

You have never heard of an acharya in the Brahma-Gaudiya-Chaitanya

Vaisnava sampradaya advocating eating meat. They wouldn't even eat

vegetarian dishes cooked in the same pot as meat.

Saying that Shiva will protect us from the ill effects of meat-

eating is just fine for rakshasas and rakshasis but not for humans.

Pheasant under glass and a glass of rare imported wine is just a

corpse and a cup of poison to a thoughtful person with brahminical

qualities. If someone sees this as a lovely meal, then they are not

serious about spiritual life. Devotional service involves sacrifice.

Is there any surprise that we should have to make adjustments in our

life to qualify ourselves to serve Bhagavan Sri Krsna? Devotional

service is no cheap thing that is arbitrarily assigned to just

anyone. If we fail to control our senses we are no better than

animals. Humans should have a higher standard than beasts, otherwise

we pave our own way for an animal birth and have no one to blame but

ourselves. The thing that makes surrender to Bhagavan Sri Krsna

meaningful is that it's voluntary. He gives us a choice of whether to

serve Him or maya. If we want to forget Him, he gives us all

facility. This human form of life is very rare. We had to go through

all 8,400,000 species of life to get here. If we spoil this special

opportunity, there's no guarantee of taking a birth as a human or

higher. There's EVERY chance of being cast down to the lower forms or

life. Animal existence is a hellish condition of life. They're

constantly under threat from other animals, environmental changes,

weather, humans, etc. So you see, eating, sleeping, mating and

defending are no standards for human enjoyment at all. These are the

things we have in common with animals. The important aspects of human

life are the ones that separate us from animals. We have voices to

chant the holy names of God, we have hands suitable for constructing

temples for Him, we can reason, think, think about thinking, we have

art, music, culture, philosophy, there are so many ways to dedicate

our life to realization of Bhagavan Sri Krsna.

The real test of our sadhana is at the time of death. This is a

very tumultuous time in our lives. There are so many things going on

in our minds. That time is a unique one for us. At that time we get a

particular perspective that is unmatched during normal waking

consciousness. At that time we see the real essence of our life. We

see the culmination of all our thoughts, desires, experiences, all

that we pursued and all that we accomplised. If, at this time, we are

able to think of Krishna at the time of death, we need never take

another birth in this miserable material manifestation again. We may

associate directly with God in the spiritual world, where every step

is a dance and every word is a song. There is no anxiety there, hence

the name Vaikuntha-loka, (vai-no, kuntha-anxiety, loka-planet)and no

need of electricity, everything is self-effulgent.

When most people find out that the only occupation in Vaikuntha

is to serve Krishna, that doesn't sound very good to them. Being

still enmired in material descires, they still crave material

satisfaction. For them material heaven is preferrable. This logic is

faulty because when our pious credits that got us to Indraloka in the

first place are exhausted, we must again descend to the material

world when there is disease, old age, and anxiety at every step.

The planets of the demigods are not eternal. They will be wound

up at the time of material dissolution along with the rest of the

universe. Plus, material nature comprises only one fourth of the

entire creation. Therefore, if we cannot even comtemplate the reaches

of our material universe that we are now familiar with, how are we to

understand with our tiny intellects, the limits of the spiritual

world, which makes up the other three-quarters of the entire creation?

One last note about devata puja: all demigods have origins except

for Krsna/Visnu. Therefore, how can any of them be supreme? Brahma

creates and Shiva destroys only because Vishnu empowers them to do

so. Actually, compared to Krsna, even Visnu is a demigod, what to

speak of Lord Brahma or Lord Shiva?

 

Your humble servant,

Vishnunnadana

 

 

 

, "Jaya Kesava Dasa Fullman"

<krsnajoe@h...> wrote:

> Hare Krsna!

>

> Everyone please accept my humble obiesances!In the Bhagavad Gita

> Krsna Says",If you offer me with Love and devotion,A Leaf,A Fruit,A

flower

> or water,I WILL ACCEPT IT".

>

> You cannot offer Krsna What he doesnt want! If we want our food to

be

> blessed, by offerring it to the lord, you must offer Vegetairian

Food! Krsna

> will not accept Meat! And never offer Krsna Meat, it will be a

great

> offence! There is no way, in ancent India, Did even common people

eat the

> cow! The cow is conscidered our mothers! And also Lord Krsna Favors

the cow! I

> think if you contribute to the killing of cows, By taking the Meat

they were

> Killed For, it is a very embarasing thing , for Indians to do, Y et

alone

> LowBorn Americans , Who had no idea what they were doing. Well they

all know

> now,By the Grace of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,T hat Cow

Killing ,and

> Eating, is Most adbonable! Please dont eat Mother Cow,

>

> Your Servant,Jaya

> Kesava dasa

> HARE KRSNA HARE RAMA

>

>

>

> ----Original Message Follows----

> s_v_c_s <no_reply>

>

>

> Re: Meat-eaters & Moksha

> Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:00:23 -0000

>

> I saw a few posts that gave examples of Rishis having ate meat.

There

> were examples quoted of Vishwamitra, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa , and

> even Krishna and Rama.