ARE HUMANS CRUEL?

[Guest guest]

I agree with all replies to this posting. Someone who knows God could

reply this question correctly, the rest of us are obliged to just

make assumptions about the qualities of God. The person who wrote

that article, was a seeking soul, definetely under the influence of

sadness which can be expressed as anger. It was a most sincere

article , I found, the author made obvious the lack of spiritual

knowledge and the necessity to acquire it, in order to be able to

understand our world. We, on the other hand, fill our lack of

spiritual knowledge with theoretical and philosophical knowledge. And

that is why we feel to know more whats going on behind the stage of

this cosmic play. And if we feel we know, then we would know, even

subconsciously as intuition works on many levels. Our guts usually

reveal us the correct theories, even without any spiritual knowledge

whatsoever. (then why people usually fight on spiritual matters?

thats a good question, i can reply if you want).

 

Anyway, what I just wanted to stress is that one should see things

more spherically/globally to dare to reply such a question. There are

cosmic laws which we are not aware of, and energetical patterns that

influence our lives in many different ways. The impressions of most

of them on us, are not to be controlled. However, hindus and

buddhists at least are familiar with the law of karma and rebirth,

isnt that the missing link of the worlds cosmologies and

philosophies? Doesnt it reply wonderfully questions such as:"Is God

cruel?" If karma is valid, we are responsible of the reactions to our

previous actions (or reactions). God doesnt punish. Our actions

punish us themselves! God is somewhat too far for me to try to

comprehend. I dont really know if his nature is personal or

impersonal. I have stopped trying to find that out though, coz I

found that by changing my way of perceiving God, I do not change his

nature, even though I might be changing my nature. I mean that one

should use the benefits of the personal and the impersonal aproach to

God, as both of them have different but very powerful and essential

effects on the spiritual seeker. Does it really matter if Lord

Shiva is a thoughtform created by great occult scientists (rishis),

or if its really an entity? (Another great occult subject, the

differences of thoughtforms and soul-entities, where do the

boundaries lie and how much life does prana gift our thoughts? is

prana the only source of life?). It doesnt really matter, because the

results of the sadhna will come, and prayer will lift our soul,

regardless of the nature of Krishna or Shiva etc. One needs to be

practical in life somehow.

 

Another thing that the author of that article didnt take into

consideration, and another question which he forgot to ask is..: "

Are humans cruel?" There have been so many futile wars in our

history, so much blood shed, hatred spread among religions cults and

wars made in the name of religion. Even now, wars are still taking

place, but why should we just see the physical cruelty? What about

the psychological cruelty which prevails in many human relationships?

Politicians being corrupted and emploees getting advandage of their

power... The list goes on and on, its endless. Maybe we need to try

to become "cruelless" firstly and then try to condem anyone/anything

else, even if that is god, about cruelty.

[Guest guest]

Thank you de_spell. As usual your reply is really wonderful. Just to

add my 2 cents.

 

First we need to ask ourselves this question, ' What is cruelty?"

If a man commits a crime and is punished commensurately for his sin,

would it be cruelty?

the dictionary meaning for it is :

a cruel act; a deliberate infliction of pain and suffering

 

Arresting a person and putting him in jail for a sin he committed

will be better defined as punitive measures rather than cruelty to

the convicted. This can be better understod in the following example.

 

Let us assume that a mother has 10 children. She loves all her

children equally. Let us say, among these 10 children, some of them

like the mother and some do not owing to their respective

temperaments. The love that the children have towards their mother

varies, however irrespective of their love towards her, her love

towards all the 10 is equal.

Now, if 2 of them, ( say of the two one loves the mother and the

other does not) commit the same mistake, the mother will punish them

in the same way considering their best interests. She cannot show

any kind of partiality towards the child that loves her over the

child that does not love her.

What determines the punishment is NOT love towards the mother but

the act committed. Love or no love confers other benefits but does

not alter the punishment.

 

Similarly, if we take the case of the earthquake, there might have

been people who are theists and some who are atheists. Some probably

were greatly devoted. But their present suffering is due to their

past karma either in this birth or in the previous. punishments

cannot be overrided b'cos we are devoted to God. Devotion confers

other benefits and leads us to our goal. however it cannot override

punishment, for if that were the case, then there wud be a huge

chaos in this universe.

 

All that you have to do to escape punishment wud be to repeat God's

name, or to be devoute to Him !

 

What we must infer is that God is impartial and must punish people

impartially and commensurately with their karma.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Dear S_V_C_S,

 

> Similarly, if we take the case of the earthquake,

> there might have

> been people who are theists and some who are

> atheists. Some probably

> were greatly devoted. But their present suffering is

> due to their

> past karma either in this birth or in the previous.

 

I wonder if the application of past karma can be put

as easily as in this case. There are instances where

girls of a tender age get raped.

Taking the example of a six or seven year old girl

what theory of past karma would you apply? Has the

poor thing even had the opportunity to commit any such

karma as to invoke such a horrendous response, which,

in all probabily will shake up the rest of her life

leading her astray?

 

To say that she may have done something in her

previous birth seems like an easy solution. It is

shocking if, for crimes committed in the previous

life, one has to lose innocence and faith in this

life.

How then would reform ever take place?

 

A genuine doubt,

Saket

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

this is a very interesting discussion. Here it is noticed that some

friends even having faith in past births, have some doubts about the

law of karma. Example of a minor girl raped does not refute the law

of karma. If we do not have memories of our sins, that does not save

us from getting punishment for those. the past sins of that minor

girl may be so powerful that nature could not wait longer to clear

her of those sins.

 

But we can look at this from another angle. We are all Brahman,

the supreme soul. At present our Jivatama(individual soul) is stuck

up in maya and is trying to come out of this illusion and Mother

Nature is helping us come out of this. For such a divine entity as

our Jivatama, who is nothing but Brahman himself, talking of sins,

and virtues, punishments and rewards will be very mean. I must say

here that it is our soul who herself decides her next course of

action, keeping in mind the final destination for her. All her

actions, all her deeds, all her thoughts are based on one and the

only one idea "to come out of the illusion of maya". for this she

tries all paths, sometimes of charity and other times of cruelty,

giving lessons to herself only.

 

The deeds which look cruel to our present set-up of society, may

not be cruel for the Nature, but a necessary step towards growth of

the individual soul. Individual soul checks her last lessons, the

shortcomings of her experiences, the reaction to certain

realities/illusions and finally chalks out her next life for next

lessons. NO Fate, no God and No karma is responsible for any deeds

of a human being, his own individual Prakriti his own little soul has

made that path for her enlightenment. If in one moment she gets the

taste of killing someone and the happiness/sadness derived from that

deed, she becomes thirsty to know the reaction of the other

side "Being killed", and when ever she gets this chances she tastes

the joy/pains/lessons from being killed also.

 

About earthquaks and natural calamities it may be said that not

necessarily all individuals who were killed, were being punished.

Sometimes there is black hole Bubble of time and space continuum,

which effects an area and sucks every living being from that space.

Those souls may then be transported to another space/universe which

suits them the most. More over being killed by natural forces is not

a thing which God has arranged. Mother Nature has her own ways of

arranging and re-arranging the planes of existance. Millions of

Bacterias and insects are dying every moment, then why so much cry on

death of some humans. They are also as loving to Mother nature as

other living beings.

 

Death is not end of any thing. Death is not a cruel thing. It is

neither a punishment nor unfateful. Death is as necessary a part of

our existance as is Life. We have to see the beauty of God's action

in all things only then we can call ourselves a good Sadhaka

 

Jai Sri Ram

[Guest guest]

, wrote:

> Taking the example of a six or seven year old girl

> what theory of past karma would you apply? >

 

Namaste Saket,

 

Before going into any further discussions, can I please ask you a

question?

 

Let us consider the case that you mentioned where this poor child

has been a victim. Let us assume that the man responsible stops not

with one child, but continues with 4 or 5 children until he gets

caught by the police.

After he gets caught, he probably may be sentenced to death or given

a life sentence. Do you think this is sufficient for him to realise

the horrendous blundr he committed to those handful of innocent

children?

 

If you were God, you will have to treat all living beings equally.

What according to you would be a just punishent for this man to

realise his horrendous crimes.

 

Hari Aum !!!