Prayer Circle

[Guest guest]

Dear Tatwamasi

 

My opinion for your querry is as follows (your text, with my comments)

Tatwamasi---I PROPOSE we set up a prayer circle version for our

satsangh. We can decide

>

> 1. Should the same prayer be said by all participants or should

each (SATISH-- IF SAME PRAYER, THEN IT SHOULD BE "NAM HO RENGE KYO";

BUT SEPERATE PRATER MIGHT EQUALY BE GOOD)

> one say their own prayer?

>

> 2.Do we need to set time limits? (SARISH----YES; TIMING IS OF VITAL

IMPORTANCE)

>

> 3.Do we need people to sign up to pray or should we leave it open

to all members?

> (SATISH--- ONE SHOULDD SIGN UP FOR THE COMMON CAUSE)

lOVE,

SATISH

[Guest guest]

Thats a great idea, for whom are we going to pray though? For peace

in the world, for health of individuals or for our faster spiritual

growth? LOL

 

Seriously now, I agree with Satish that there should be a time limit

so that the healing thoughtforms we create are stronger at a given

time. I also agree that one should sign up. However, the prayers that

are not said simultaneously will also definetely help to build the

healing energy. We could have two types of participants: 1. sadhakas

that sit simultaneously and pray, 2. sadhakas that send their healing

thoughts and prayers whenever its possible.

 

When it comes to which prayer we should use I am afraid we will hear

many different opinions on that. I use the method of Joseph Murphy

for "scientific prayer" that can aim at any goal be that healing or

anything else. Joseph Murphy has written many best sellers, his best

one is "The power of your subconscious mind". It is a small and cheap

book but its contents are simply great. There is also a separate book

of him dedicated to spiritual healing through affirmations and

prayers in a specific manner though. I think we should suggest many

different prayers that we know are effective, and then let others

choose, which one is suitable for them. The most important in prayer

is the faith and the intense devotional emotions that penetrate our

soul, the actual text might not be so significant, unless of course

its a mantra.

 

Hari Om!

[Guest guest]

Dear Uma,

 

Yes it certainly is a great Idea, lets start it immidiately.

The world is full of pain, every prayer directed either at the

comunity, or individual will help.

In my view those intrested should sign up, and fix a timing for the

prayers.

 

Namaskar

 

Jigyasa

 

-- In , tatwamasi wrote:

> Dear Members

>

> I would like to propose a special activity for our satsangh.

>

>

[Guest guest]

NOTE: I am sending this as a special notice to all members so as to

make the service available to as many as possible and incorporate

their suggestions as well. I hope all members take the time to

follow the discussion on this topic. If you have missed some please

go to our group home page and

read the posts on "Prayer Circle".

 

Some more thoughts as we await more responses.

 

1. Prayer Requests -Individuals send prayer requests in to the

prayer team with name of recipient and purpose. Prayers can be for

any purpose .. if something is causing pain and difficulty for

someone and they need some assistance, then its worth praying for.

 

A prayer request for "Peace in the World" is certainly very

appropriate given our present conditions in the world. We could set

up a separate time for that and open it up to all members who are

willing to spare some time for world peace.

 

2. Prayers - There are many specific prayers in sanskrit that are

for healing (eg mahamrityunjaya) but there are also several

affirmative prayers like "scientific prayers", "Spiritual Mind

Treaments" (Science of Mind) and others from various different

schools. What is important is that whatever prayer is chosen, it

needs to be said with faith and devotion, otherwise no matter how

powerful it is, it is not likely to work. So perhaps it is more

important to let members pick those with which they identify or

resonate with the most.

 

We could put up a list of different kinds of prayers for various

purposes, in our club <file> section. Members can upload prayers

themselves or send them to moderators to be added to the file

section. We can consolidate them at some time as needed.

 

3. Time - We could preset a time and post it on our club calender.

Members can then choose to pray at that time or at their

convenience. Remember that given the various time zones in the

world, if we set a single time slot, e.g 10 pm each night, we may

find that there is some member across the world praying every hour.

(Of course this will happen if our prayer team is a large one ..

which I am hoping it eventually will.)

 

Again what is important is for the prayer team to fully participate

in what they are doing and not feel obligated or pressured for time.

 

4. Duration of prayer - Should one pray for 1 month or 1 fortnight

or several months? Perhap each request can be served for one month

and it can be continued if requested again.

 

5. Prayer team - As suggested by several so far, members who are

able to make a small commitment can sign up. We can also keep it

open for others if they feel they want to join in occasionaly per

schedule posted in the club calender.

 

Wating for more ideas ..

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

, "Angie" <oiokasti@h...> wrote:

> Thats a great idea, for whom are we going to pray though? For

peace

> in the world, for health of individuals or for our faster

spiritual

> growth? LOL

[Guest guest]

Dear Uma,

 

Lets start the Prayer Circle with Prayer for World Peace.

 

I cut and paste below some abstracts from Powers of Prayers

fromhttp://www.yogananda-srf.org/wwpc/ )

 

Prayer is the science by which we can attune the human mind and will

to the consciousness and will of God. Through prayer, we form a

loving, personal relationship with God, and His response is

unfailing. We read in Paramahansa Yogananda's autobiography:

"The Lord responds to all and works for all. Seldom do men realize

how often God heeds their prayers. He is not partial to a few, but

listens to anyone who approaches Him trustfully. His children should

ever have implicit faith in the loving-kindness of their Omnipresent

Father."

 

By patient and persevering application of God's unlimited power, we

can, with His love and help, create whatever circumstances we

desire, and dissolve difficulties and disease — not only for

ourselves, but for others.

 

 

 

A prayer that is strong and deep will definitely receive God's

answer....By the application of science in religion, your uncertain

belief in spiritual possibilities can become realization of their

highest fulfillment.

 

 

 

Most men consider the course of events as natural and inevitable.

They little know what radical changes are possible through prayer.

 

 

 

The Lord is the Mother of all mothers, the Father of all fathers,

the One Friend behind all friends. If you always think of Him as the

nearest of the near, you will witness many wonders in your life.

 

—Paramahansa Yogananda .

 

NAmaskar

 

 

 

 

 

 

, tatwamasi wrote:

> NOTE: I am sending this as a special notice to all members so as

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

 

Let us pray for an increase in Maa spirituality in the new

millennium, Common Era.

 

The Circle is the Sacred Yoni of the Universe - Universal MahaDevi!

 

Jai Maa!

 

m6

 

 

, tatwamasi wrote:

> Dear Members

>

> I would like to propose a special activity for our satsangh.

>

> We are aware of the power of prayer, both individual and collective

> and how it can help. While people of faith believe that people can

> be successfuly helped through prayer, it is still in the laboratory

> as far as "scientists" go. However several professionals in the

> medical profession have documented and/or researched in their own

> ways (though scientific flaws have been found for many) that

prayers

> for overall healing, instead of specific cures, have a high chance

> of having a postive effect on the outcome of a person's situation.

> Many of these experiments were done with a variery of prayers from

> different religions and the results were found to be the same. In

> some cases the recipient's receptivity was an important factor

> effecting the outcome. While these experiments were conducted more

> from health perspectives, it may be safe to assume that if it works

> for health it is likely to work for other circumstances too.

>

> A Google search results in many, many interesting articles on this

> topic, including books by Dr. Larry Dossey, who was Co-chairperson

> of the Panel on Mind/Body Interventions of the Office of

Alternative

> Medicine, National Institutes of Health, USA 1992-94. "The impact

of

> Dr. Dossey's work has been remarkable. Before his book Healing

Words

> was published in 1993, only three U.S. medical schools had courses

> devoted to exploring the role of religious practice and prayer in

> health; currently, nearly 80 medical schools have instituted such

> courses, many of which utilize Dr. Dossey's works as textbooks."

>

> http://www.dosseydossey.com/larry/default.html

>

> Personally I have journeyed from being a hard nosed show-me-

> proof "scientist" to one who has acted in faith in a variety of

> phenomenon and then discovered proof for myself. Having done that

> several times, I am now a firm believer of the power of

> many "unscientific" phenomenon and participate in them regularly

> myself.

>

> There are many well known prayer circles, small and big, across the

> world led by major religious/ spiritual institutions. The way they

> function is that members send a prayer request with name and

> purpose. Members of the prayer team then pray for the person,

either

> individually or collectively, for a prescribed period of time.

>

> I PROPOSE we set up a prayer circle version for our satsangh. We

can

> decide

>

> 1. Should the same prayer be said by all participants or should

each

> one say their own prayer?

>

> 2.Do we need to set time limits?

>

> 3.Do we need people to sign up to pray or should we leave it open

to

> all members?

>

> Any other questions/opinions/ideas are welcomed.

>

> I hope we are able to start this service for our members. Even if

we

> are a few of us who are able to participate, it is a good place to

> start.

>

> Looking forward to a huge response!!!

>

> _/\_ Tat twam asi

>

> Uma

[Guest guest]

, tatwamasi wrote:

> NOTE: I am sending this as a special notice to all members so as to

 

thnx tatwamasi this is a very good idea and i hope you will get over-

whelming response. Side by side i would like that we discuss a

little about power of prayer too. What do you think of :-

 

1) What is a prayer ? and whom should it be addressed?

2) whose prayer is accepted ?( Like a thief prays for a good theft

and a policeman prays for catching the thief., so whose prayer will

be listened to )

 

3) what is more important in a prayer, the words or the Bhava behind

the prayer

 

4) Is prayer not a sort of confirmation of Dwaita ?

 

 

regards

 

nachiketa

 

dear angie thanks for sharing your views on spirits. btw have you

ever tried planchette ? do u think spirits do come in a planchette to

discuss or it is only our sub-conscious revealing its ideas/

[Guest guest]

MY HUMBLE REPLY TO DR. NACHIKETA'S QNS

> 1) What is a prayer ? and whom should it be addressed?

A PRAYER IS APIRATION FOR DIVINE GEACE TO ANSWER

> 2) whose prayer is accepted ?( Like a thief prays for a good theft

> and a policeman prays for catching the thief., so whose prayer will

> be listened to )

ACCEPTANCE IS RECIPROCAL TO THE ASPIRATION

DIVINE CODE IS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM OUR PENAL CODE. A THIEF CAN BE

APOLICEMAN AND VISE- VERSA

>

> 3) what is more important in a prayer, the words or the Bhava

behind the prayer

BOTH BHAVA AND WORDS LIKE A SOFTWARE AND USER

>

> 4) Is prayer not a sort of confirmation of Dwaita ?

YES ! WHY AFFRAID OF DWAITA ?

 

SATISH

[Guest guest]

In continuation of the discussion of this topic I am posting an

email I received from an old friend and member who prefers not to

participate directly.

 

 

Uma

 

tatwamasi

RE: Re: Prayer Circle

Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:05:59 +0530

 

Umakka

 

Where are you these days? Where have you reached! Am I seeing a

transformation? - away from 'THAT I AM I SEE' to 'That I See'?

 

It gives me great pleasure as each such thought is given by Her -

The Mahaaaaa Maaaaya - She is driving you from the Tasteless

monotone to BahuSyam Prajayai - It is SHE everywhere - The Prayer,

the prayed and the Mantra.

 

Order me, as part of HER, I shall do. Order as Aham Rudrebir

Vasubir... The vision of VAK, the daughter of Ambrini Rishi.

 

I am very very happy to see the subtle transformation in you. Even

if you deny it, it is obvious to me. It takes you, literally, in

your walk-the-talk mode. This is no ordinary fete. The compassion

for the sufferings... what a great leveller it is! It brings you so

close to THAT... not in words but in reality. To pray, to weep - it

is just that you seek that divine companion .. the rest is all

reason to be near THAT or to abide in THAT.. so you can become

that... This is the route.. seva.. this is the only way one gives up

mamatvam, mamakaram. Really I am very happy.

 

Wishing you good luck, bless me on the way

 

regards

[Guest guest]

I have participated in real life in different kinds of prayer groups

and want to share some of the variety of thought that exists in the

field. I mentioned Spiritual Mind treatment in one of my earlier

posts. A good description of this view follows.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

-----

 

How To Do A Spiritual Mind Treatment

 

Spiritual mind treatment (simply called "treatment") is a form of

prayer used by Dr. Ernest Holmes, founder of Religious Science and

author of The Science of Mind as well as many other metaphysical

works. Holmes taught that there is a scientific reasoning underlying

all prayer, and that through this process of reasoning we are

treating our own mind about the subject of our prayer.

 

Prayer, whatever form is used, does nothing to God. It actually

brings the one praying to a "realization" of God, a realization that

all is well and that he/she is not alone in dealing with the

situation. This realization in itself does the "healing."

 

Treatment consists of five steps. It can be done individually or as

a group. In the beginning, you may find it easier and more

comfortable to simply read the steps as written (generic as they may

be). When you begin your own deepening process as the result of

treatment, you will find value in wording each step yourself so it

more closely suits your situation. Therefore, at the beginning of

each step is an explanation of its purpose.

 

Step 1 Recognition

 

In the beginning, God...Begin by recognizing that "God is all there

is," including the practice of the prayer. Name as many attributes

of God that you can think of to begin "treating your mind" that

there is a power greater than you are and greater than the issue at

hand. Remember: you are not making God these things; you are

reminding yourself that this is what God is. You might say:

 

"God is. Whatever I may call It - Spirit, Infinite Intelligence,

Divine Love, Total Peace - It is always the same: It is timeless,

changeless, everywhere present and completely powerful to heal and

renew me and this situation in my life. It is courage and pure joy.

It is profound peace and uplifting laughter. It is total wisdom and

the spontaneity to enjoy life."

 

Step 2 Unification

 

It is easy to recognize that God is all these things. And it is

often more difficult to see your unity with God and know that you

are those same attributes. You are "made in the image and likeness

of God." How can you be anything but the magnificence, power, love,

etc. that you have just declared God is?

 

"God and I are One. I know that I am infinite intelligence, deep

peace, unconditional love, courage, harmony and joy. I am what God

is. God is expressing through me right now in every way. I have all

answers within with God as my source. Every cell of my body is God,

every situation is God, every thing in my life now is God."

 

Step 3 Realization

 

The first two steps are often compared to meditation. When you have

experienced a richness and a deepening as a result of the first two

steps, the third step is a declaration of the Truth you have

realized. It is always worded in the first person and in the present

tense. You are not asking for anything. You are declaring and

affirming that it is the Truth and is already done. REMEMBER: You

are treating your own mind about this. The entire Kingdom has

already been given to you. If you don't believe it, God can't do

anything more for you. If you are doing this treatment for someone

else you substitute their name where yours is indicated.

 

"I now speak my word for myself. The Truth of God is the Truth of my

life. I easily and effortlessly know my greater good, know it is my

Divine right and the truth of my being to experience the highest and

best good for myself. I am always in the right place and the right

time. The Wisdom of God within me guides my every move. I experience

unconditional love flowing through me at all times. I feel the

perfection of God in every cell of my body. I am total harmony and

joy in every area of my life. I see God in every situation in my

life."

 

Step 4 Thanksgiving

 

Here you express your gratitude for the successful completion of

your declaration of Truth and for your willingness to see it,

believe it, and surrender to its unfoldment.

 

"I give thanks for the realization of this treatment and the perfect

working of the spiritual law which responds to my thoughts and

words. I am confident and joyous that my good is already unfolding

through me as me."

 

Step 5 Release

 

It's time to release it to Spirit. You've done your work; now know

the Law will do its work - through you.

 

"In this feeling of gratitude. I release this treatment to the Law.

I know it was done before I even asked. I release any doubts or

fears and simply allow it to be my good, right now. I have declared

it to be so. And So It Is!"

 

http://www.religiousscience.org/practitioners/how.htm

[Guest guest]

Dear Nachiketa Saheb and others

 

It's neat to see the dialogue this topic has generated. I'm hoping

all will join in the Prayer Circle with even more enthusiasm!

 

Prayer in its essence is sound which is used to harness and

concentrate divine energy and direct it for a purpose. Like a convex

lens, an individual can be an instrument in bringing energy to a

focal point; the focus of the lens of course determined by its

clarity and strength.

 

We know that Divine energy, or what we call the True/Higher Self is

the essence of all beings. Those who are completely immersed in that

identification, like avatars or totally enlightened beings, have the

ability to direct energy without any effort. The efforts are needed

by most of us who are on the way but not quite established in that

identification.

 

This is where prayer comes into the picture. Typically prayer has 5

parts to it.

 

1. Acknowledging the power of the Divine - Either through praise or

simply identifying the powers of Divine energy. This is where

traditional Bhakti towards a personal diety/guru/master comes into

play. It is dwaita/dual in nature for sure, the moment there is 'i'

and 'you'. This also helps develop humility and thus counter the

obstacle of pride.

 

2. Aligning oneself with the Divine - This step acknowledges one's

true adwaita/non dual nature

 

Prayer can be just till this point. A simple alignment.

 

It can further be channeled to focus on a goal -

 

3. Harnessing the energy - Either through the sound energy itself or

accompanied by rituals

 

4. Direct the energy towards a purpose - Clarity and intention is

critical to manifest; helps directs the energy to the desired

outcome.

 

5. Confidence in the results and release of the attachment to goal -

This can be accomplished by acknowledging that the Divine Energy

follows the karmic plan. Whether we look at the process as the

impersonal Spiritual Law, or personalize it as the Cosmic dance of

Shiva, or MAA's Kripa (Grace), it reflects one's consciouness,

aligning either directly or indirectly. What is important is the

confidence in one's level of readiness, and a release of attachment

(which tends to create a counter force). This is where karma Yoga

comes into use.

 

Those who have conducted traditional puja themselves will recognize

these steps.

 

Both words and attitude is important to achive the results of prayer

and it works for all irrespective of the goal. Whether the goal is

postitive or negative only makes a difference later when the person

has to reap the fruits of their actions. No one can experience

negativity unless they are karmically supposed to do so. For the

experiencer, the giver of negativity is only an instrument, on

their own journey.

 

This surely sounds simple, but why then does it seem to be so

difficult to manifest one's desires? We have more people who are

actively involved in praying in the world than in any other form of

spiritual practice.

 

The answer lies in our fundamental ego-centered obstacles, the same

attributes that separate us from the Truth - fear, attachment to

goals, lack of trust in the process, lack of understanding,

arrogance including spiritual pride, greed, lust, hate etc.

Comparitives like better or worse, higher or lower, advanced or

beginner, are all centered on the ego and also get in the way. How

can one expect to benifit from prayer for the health of a loved one

if we are terrified of losing them? Who appears a beginner today may

have been very advanced in some previous birth. Any pride, or even

sense of "Im better than you" is likely (at the energy level) to

negate any positive benifits sought through prayers.

 

All sages including Shankara have demonstrated that no path is

better or worse.

 

"Na punyam, na papam, na saukhyam na dukhaam, Na mantro na tirtham

na veda na yagnaha

Aham bhojanam naiva bhojayam na bhokta, Chidananda rupah shivoham

shivoham"

 

There is no need for righteousness, no sin, no pleasure nor pain, no

need for mantras nor pilgrimages no vedas nor yagyas (sacred fires),

I am neither the experience nor experienced nor the experiencer, I

am Pure Joy (consciouness), Shivoham shivoham

 

"Na tatoh Na Mata Na Bandho Na data, Na Putro Na Putri Na Bhrutyoh

Na Bharta,

Na jaya na Bidya Na Bruttih Mamyeba, Gatiswtam Gatistwam Twameka

Bhawani"

 

I have no father, mother, relative, son, daughter, servant, husband,

wife, education or service. You Ma Bhavani are my only refuge!"

 

 

Both came from the same great master of Hinduism. Two sides of the

coin. Like a Koan .. we have to use ego centered duality "twemeka

Bhawani" mode to shatter the veil of maya/ignorance and awake into

the non-dual world of "Shivoham".

 

Some of my thoughts..

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

, dr_nachiketa <no_reply> wrote:

 

> thnx tatwamasi this is a very good idea and i hope you will get

over- whelming response. Side by side i would like that we discuss

a > little about power of prayer too. What do you think of :-

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Uma,

 

YOu have very nicely defined impotance of Prayers.

I give below a story on the Role of prayers in one's own life:

 

Uruvela Kassapa sat silently for a moment and then

said, "Gautama, I know you speak only from your own direct

experience. Your words do not simply express concepts. You have said

that liberation can only be attained through the efforts of

meditation, by looking deeply at things. Do you think that all

ceremonies, rituals, and prayers are useless?"

 

The Buddha pointed to the other side of the river and

said, "Kassapa, if a person wants to cross to the other shore, what

should he do?"

 

"If the water is shallow enough, he can wade across. Otherwise he

will have to swim or row a boat across."

 

"I agree. But what is he is unwilling to wade, swim, or row a boat?

What if he just stands on this side of the river and prays to the

other shore to come to him? What would you think of such a man?"

 

"I would say he was being quite foolish!"

 

"Just so, Kassapa! If one doesn't overcome ignorance and mental

obstructions, one cannot cross to the other side to liberation, even

if one spends one's whole life praying."

 

 

Namaskar

 

 

, tatwamasi wrote:

>

> Dear Nachiketa Saheb and others

>

> It's neat to see the dialogue this topic has generated. I'm hoping

> all will join in the Prayer Circle with even more enthusiasm!

>

[Guest guest]

Please Read Importance in place of Impotence . It was an typing

error, and is regretted.

 

JIgyasa

 

 

, jigyasa02 <no_reply> wrote:

> Dear Uma,

>

> YOu have very nicely defined impotance of Prayers.

> I give below a story on the Role of prayers in one's own life:

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this story. It is very important to address the

question this poses - The effectiveness or value of prayer.

 

What is important to understand that prayer does not take the place

of action. It is in addition to action. If the person has to cross

the river and is afraid to cross, it will definitely help to pray at

this point to get the confidence and perhaps even direct the outcome

of the endeavour.

 

Buddha's period was full of extreme ritualism often being abused by

the priestly community, and his approach was to make the individual

independantly confident, instead of relying on external sources like

pandits, pujas etc. His focus was on the present, not past or

future, because most of the present human conditions /problems need

to addressed at present.

 

_/\_ Tat Twam asi

 

Uma

 

, jigyasa02 <no_reply> wrote:

> Dear Uma,

>

> YOu have very nicely defined impotance of Prayers.

> I give below a story on the Role of prayers in one's own life:

[Guest guest]

, tatwamasi wrote:

> What is important to understand that prayer does not take the place

> of action.

 

Yes tatwamasi, this is a very logical point that prayers cant

replace action and this is what we forgot and becoz of certain

misleading books of hindus and inexperienced pundits, we started

thinking that god will take care of our problems if we continue

praying. Somnath temples example is worth mentioning. Gaznavi was

approaching fast and the priest in the temple were assuring people

that shiva will open his third eye and destroy the enemy. Prayers

could not save Somnath, history proves it.

 

As one members asked too if our own karma reply to our prayers is

partially correct. If we pray for our own benefit, i feel our own

system our own antahkaran re-arranges our old good karma and we get

fruits. Even a dacoit prays for his deeds and many times he succeeds.

 

I feel God only listens to those prayers which are for the

benefit of universe, and He helps us meeting that goal. for example

as you started prayer for world peace, in such case the Universal

System responds with its positive energies and helps us.

 

However there is only one prayer to which God immediately

responds. He does not care if we have enough good karma in store, or

if we are leading a religious life or pious life or any such thing.

And that is the prayer for Enlightenment. If we pray to him with

honesty and sincerety with whole of our Antahakaran for getting peace

and enlightenment or Moksha, the Universal system as well as it

mentor immdiately respond and help starts coming

 

When we pray for Moksha, we are in fact not asking anything for

us, but accepting what god has desired for us.

 

Nachiketa

[Guest guest]

> I feel God only listens to those prayers which are for the

> benefit of universe, and He helps us meeting that goal.

 

All prayers/affirmation whether we look at it from duality or non

duality point of view will be answered per karmic baggage and

depends on the energy of the prayer which in turn depends on the

sincerity and faith behind the words. Yes, bad guys get their

prayers answered too, and so do selfishly motivated prayers. However

the consequences of the motivation is felt by the prayee sometime or

another, often after their prayers have been answered.

 

In the case of prayers for the good of the earth, again it depends

on the strength of the prayers which is why the numbers, sincerity

make a difference. Since there is less* of one's individual ego

playing a role (unlike individual desires which totally reflect

individual ego needs) the nobility of the goal makes the power of

these prayers very significant. Of course the karmic cycle here also

plays a role.

 

*I say "less" because the desire for peace in the world is also a

ego centered desire, albeit a noble one!

 

_/\_ tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

, dr_nachiketa <no_reply> wrote: