Sadhna - Kleshas

[Guest guest]

I notice an interesting trend. Members are talking about communism,

muslims, christians, etc etc creating problems for Hinduism and its

practice in India.

 

Ok, So here we are with all kinds of people around us.

 

Where do we go from here. What is the solution? Will all the

problems go away if we remove them? And how do we remove them all?

And who decides who removes whom? Kill all those who are not Hindus

because they have different ways of doing things? Killing all who

get in the way of our beliefs seems awfully like those we condemn

doesn't it?

 

I have been wondering about the relevance of blame in sadhna, as I

notice the avalanche of blame posts in our satsangh. I realize it is

an important block in one's spiritual practice. Kleshas of anger,

resentment, hurt, hate, among others, are all important obstacles in

sadhna. Its energy is unproductive to spiritual practice and thus is

important to be identified, understood and be dealt with, both

internally and externally.

 

What are some solutions you propose to these problems you all have

presented?

 

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

[Guest guest]

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi wrote:

>

>

> I notice an interesting trend. Members are talking about

communism, muslims, christians, etc etc creating problems for

Hinduism and its practice in India.... Killing all who

> get in the way of our beliefs seems awfully like those we condemn

> doesn't it?

---

-

 

I am surprised the question coming from a wise member and oldest

& experienced moderator??

 

You are here to reply to other's questions and to clear others

doubts about Hinduism....not reject India and Hinduism in reaction

to people writing against Islam etc. I have noticed that anybody

writing against Islam, was taken as a personal injury by you and in

reaction you tried to blast Hinduism and India on many

occassions...and i pointed out that to you...sometimes

gently...sometimes harshly....not to offend you but as a duty of a

sadhaka....a love for a soulmate because all in this Path called

Sadhna are my soulmates.

 

I am not against Islam or christinity or any religion. I treat

myself as a Tantrik where rejecting anything is rejecting Mother

Kali. But explaining her ways of working...is not hatered or

anguish or any such negative thought. If i can not see Mother Kali

working through Osama or Bush....I am not a Tantrik at all !!! The

same Kali if reacts through Hindu organisations...why raise hue and

cry???

 

Just go through the old posts of this group. There were people

questioning Hinduism, people questioing Bhakti marga, gyan

marga,...even people rejecting God (Also people rejecting you and

other moderators). Those questions were very well handled by the

wise team then participating....no one getting angry...no one

wondering on the Nature of questions or the questionaires. Your own

posts defending Hinduism were marvellous and awesome!!

 

We should not forget that the Universe is a mix of thoughts. Any

good thought coming up will attract a negative thought. This is the

law of the Nature. When Gandhiji comes, Nathuram Godse is never far

behind....and when Ravana comes Rama is not far behind....A Hitler

rising again..will rally all world against him !!

 

Human race is passing through a transitional phase. The old

thoughts and ideas are being questioned. The mind has not remained

simple...all accepting brain....it questions everything and is

trying to find an equilibrium between the old and the new.

 

Whatever is rotten in old theories is going to be rejected by the

new race of human, which is evolving very fast. Now the blind

faiths can not keep them one. We have to give logical answers to

the new race to the beliefs we had been holding till now. And those

races...those religions...those creeds who do not satisfy this new

phenomenon are going to be eradicated.

 

Nature is working beautifully to wear out the old and rotten and

is waiting to re-write new theories. A new era is knocking at our

doors...and this will enter into our being...even if we dont welcome

it.

 

My personal opinion and prophecy is that the human race is fast

approaching a global unity....All Popes....all Maulavis...all

Pundits...who had been hypocrite in their approach and had been

keeping the herd together in the name of blind faith...have to

go...make room for the new emerging race of

logical.. .loving. ..understanding..and accepting creed!!

 

And Islam is in the top of the list...to be

questioned...christinity..budhists...hindus will not be spared though

But Hinduism with its strong base of Truth will finally lead after

leaving its hypocricy...its negativity and its rotten social evils.

 

And for us Hindus...the only way is not to hate or kill or reject

other faiths...but prepare ourselves to lead !!!

 

Sadhna is the way for that...neither hatered...nor violence!!

Love

 

Baba

 

Still if u feel...i am spoiling the atmosphere of this group...let

me know I will leave the group without questions...because if i

stay..i dont promise to condemn Islam !!

[Guest guest]

Correction #1 - I am NOT here to teach anything to anyone. My role

is to moderate, and bring out points for discussion. If you

genuinely read my posts this would have been clear. If I wanted to

give bhashans I would have started a group and posted on my own.

Many many are doing that!

 

Correction #2 - This is a public forum, and each and everyone of you

are encouraged and have a right to express your opinion and views,

as long as there is no abusive language. My role here is to ensure

that. Again my record shows that. Could I do better? Of course, I

have always room to learn.

 

Just as you think its your duty to bring anti-everyone issues, and

participate in the blame-game, I consider it my duty to live by my

principles. My faith/religion challenges me to be fair to everyone,

to honor each and every human being at their potential, and take

responsibility for individual and collective actions. It is a

challenge. Ills exist, everywhere, and it is very easy to hide

behind blaming others for their ills and forget about my own. Let's

kill the messenger to avoid thinking about the message.

 

I will not be forced by extremists, both in my adopted country and

motherland, to participate in the divisive behavior of hate-

mongering and war-mongering and will continue to urge peace-lovers

to rise and take responsibility for their collective and personal

world.

 

There ARE ills in the world, and there are ways to get rid of them

or at least attempt to do so. The choice reflects one's

consciousness. Sadhna, to me, is about making choices, ones that

promote my growth, not retard it.

 

Spoil the atmosphere? Certainly not. I welcome your and others'

participation, and I'm grateful that you have brought up one of the

unspoken obstacles to sadhna .. Blame (passing off responsibility).

I am waiting to hear your response to the specific questions I

raised.

 

What I feel sad about is the apathy of the majority of the members,

who have chosen to remain quiet, as if it doesn't concern them.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

> You are here to reply to other's questions and to clear others

> doubts about Hinduism....

 

 

, "Baba ji" <beirut_ka_baba

wrote:

 

>> I am surprised the question coming from a wise member and

oldest

> & experienced moderator??

>

> You are here to reply to other's questions and to clear others

> doubts about Hinduism....not reject India and Hinduism in reaction

>..............

>

> Still if u feel...i am spoiling the atmosphere of this group...let

> me know I will leave the group without questions...because if i

> stay..i dont promise to condemn Islam !!

>

[Guest guest]

baba,

 

is quitting or silencing, the way?

 

certainly not,

 

uma has already confirmed that she wirtes what her

mind centre receives directly, then why do you think

like that?

 

--- Baba ji <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

 

 

> Still if u feel...i am spoiling the atmosphere of

> this group...let

> me know I will leave the group without

> questions...because if i

> stay..i dont promise to condemn Islam !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Uma,

I have not been very regular and unfortunately have not been able to

access the net or my mails on a regular basis.

 

I just want to share my 2 cents on this:

 

 

The Webster's dictionary defines problem as :

 

an intricate unsettled question b : a source of perplexity, distress, or

vexation c : difficulty in understanding or accepting

 

As the definition says, and what I could gather it seems to a

'difficulty in understanding or accepting' issue.

 

A big solution to this problem would be to understand others. There are

right people and wrong people everywhere. The wrong have to be ignored/

politey told to stop.

 

Fighting/ Killing will not stop the hatred.

 

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi wrote:

>

> Where do we go from here. What is the solution? Will all the

> problems go away if we remove them? And how do we remove them all?

> And who decides who removes whom? Kill all those who are not Hindus

> because they have different ways of doing things? Killing all who

> get in the way of our beliefs seems awfully like those we condemn

> doesn't it?

>

> I have been wondering about the relevance of blame in sadhna, as I

> notice the avalanche of blame posts in our satsangh. I realize it is

> an important block in one's spiritual practice. Kleshas of anger,

> resentment, hurt, hate, among others, are all important obstacles in

> sadhna. Its energy is unproductive to spiritual practice and thus is

> important to be identified, understood and be dealt with, both

> internally and externally.

>

> What are some solutions you propose to these problems you all have

> presented?

>

>

> _/\_ Tat twam asi

>

> Uma

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

It was interesting in getting informations which we search, But its bad to talk

with words like (I,Iam,Me,You ... ) because we are here to disscuss on the

thoughts that felt in our mind. I don't believe that it belong to a person were

it was felt. So its meaning less to blame a person for his words. Pl. go ahead

without any arguments pl.

 

Vazga vazamudan

 

Vinayagamoorthy.

 

Tatwamasi <tatwamasi wrote:

Correction #1 - I am NOT here to teach anything to anyone. My role

[Guest guest]

Sadhna is not really sitting in our meditation room and drown into

our being...though that too will happen one day. But we can not

ignore the happenings around us.

 

We are not alone in this universe. any happening anywhere will

affect us and we need to discuss its implications to understand the

energies better if we can do anything in the given situation.

 

A real sadhaka can not remain silent if around him goes the

turmoil. I have seen people talking peace and love and understanding

in the name of sadhna. Though in a way it is true...but not entirely

true ! We can not remain a silent spectators if Negativity is

surrounding us (presently Islam and its terroristic designs)....we

are not discussing here to kill them or hate them. We are discussing

their folly...so that we can see...we do not do that folly ourselves.

 

Babu dear....if hatered or killing the negativity is not the way

then can you tell me why Shri Krishna asked Arjuna to kill the enemy

army ??

 

Was Krishna not a good sadhaka like our peace loving sadhakas ? Why

Krishna not spoke of peace and love....when Arjuna, rightly in the

spirit of a good sadhaka declined to fight with loved ones for a

piece of land ?

 

Perhaps Krishna too will be called an extremist by the moderators

of this group..

 

I am trying to sell the idea...that sadhna is not a one hour

meditation time.....each moment of our life is a sadhna and all

energies around us have to be dealt carefully.....till we transcend

this duality...only then we can call for peace, love and

understanding..

 

 

love

 

baba

[Guest guest]

Dear Babaji,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Yes, Sadhna is definately not about sitting in a room and going away

from all - that might get termed as 'escapist behaviour'.

 

Can a mode of conversation be first tried and if then that does not

work, then arms be picked up?

 

Krishna first tried to mediate and it was only when war was declared

(by Duryodhana) that Krishna decided, if a fight had to happen, so

be it.

 

What I am saying is avoid hatred unless one is cornered and

confronted with it.

 

And on a light note I would say, lets carry on with our regular

discussions and when it comes to killing, let Krishna (Kalki) handle

it.

 

:-)

[Guest guest]

fine

namasivayam

 

--- Vinayaga Moorthy <nvmoorthy2003 wrote:

 

> It was interesting in getting informations which we

> search, But its bad to talk with words like

> (I,Iam,Me,You ... ) because we are here to disscuss

> on the thoughts that felt in our mind. I don't

> believe that it belong to a person were it was felt.

> So its meaning less to blame a person for his

> words. Pl. go ahead without any arguments pl.

>

> Vazga vazamudan

>

> Vinayagamoorthy.

>

> Tatwamasi <tatwamasi wrote:

> Correction #1 - I am NOT here to teach anything to

> anyone. My role

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, baburoy <no_reply wrote:

>

 

 

You too Brutus ?? i am surprised you also see hatered in my posts.

Let me repeat my words which i wrote in reply to someone accusing me

of hating muslims

 

If a scientist is lecturing a class telling about the harms a

virus can do...and how to avoid it, can we say the scientist hates

the virus?

 

If discussing the root cause of why the Jehadis are behaving in

such a manner, why Kashmiri Pundits are not taken care of, how the

pseudo secularists and communists destroyed the culture of

Hindus....and if discussing the various religions and trying to find

the truth prevailing, is called hatered....then you people are

right...

 

Putting down Hinduism and Indian culture is welcomed here and

writing against Islam is taken as a personal insult by caliphs of

this group!!.

 

I am not shocked, nor amazed, nor going to leave. For me sadhna

envelopes everything.

 

Tagore wrote against social evils of india, Aurobindo rejected

communism and islam, Gandhi proudly announced that he could

understand other religions due to greatness of Hinduism....and when

Baba discusses these things, he is spreading hatered ???

 

Please re-read my posts...I have nowhere written to hate any

religions or about killing anyone...i dont know how these words

popped up....perhaps this is the communistic way of defaming a

person...like they did with Subhash Chandra Bose (by calling him

Japanese dog).

 

With love

 

Baba

[Guest guest]

> What I am saying is avoid hatred unless one is cornered and

> confronted with it.

>

 

Islamistists regularly target schools/children with bombs- in Israel,

Chechnya, and of course India. In European newspapers they often state

their goal is to convert the World into an Islamic Empire. How much

more do you want to be cornered Baburoy?

 

Why this love and understanding with someone who wants to destroy our

way of life and culture?

[Guest guest]

Babaji, pls dont quit. History will prove you right.

 

when Hitler came to power, Jews felt they could reason with him.

Jews(esp European) were the most intelligent and cultured people at

the time- Eintein, Schordinger, Spilman etc. Like our Communists in

India. They couldnt understand why anyone would want to kill or wipe

them out.

 

If you see Schindlers List(the movie based on real events), in it Jews

try to hide their gold/jewellery when Nazis come to arrest them, or

bribe them. What they didnt understand was Hitler hated them so much

he wanted to wipe them out- he didnt want their gold or land. He often

spoke about it in speeches, just like Osama and Gang do so nowdays.

 

Even at the time people who warned against Hitler were considered

crazy, and "intelligent" people said it was just rhetoric.

 

6 million jews died because of this mistake in thinking- that if you

are nice to everyone, they will be nice to you, the "Good begets Good"

philosophy of Tatwamasi types.

 

Now Islamics, who outnumber the Nazis and exist in dozens of

countries, some of which they control, and openly talk of wiping out

Jews/Hindus/anyone else, but we have to be nice to them, so as we dont

hurt their feelings while they are raping and killing our families!

 

Im not sure why Tatwamasi takes so much offence when we say something

about Muslims? I didnt take offence when she said that Hindus have no

shame as they dont thank God like Christians/Muslims do.

 

Dont worry if someone says you are wrong. One thousand Nazi scientists

wrote an open letter saying Einstein was an idiot and his theory was

wrong. Enistein replied- "If I am wrong, even one person is enough,

but if I am right, then even if a million people say I am an idiot, it

deosnt matter!".

 

Keep that in mind.

[Guest guest]

Dear Baburoy

 

Welcome back, and hope to hear more from you.

 

Would you say the understanding hasn't been forthcoming? From what I

know, minorities are given such amazing rights in India that it

astonishes legal experts across the globe sine nothing like that

exists anywhere else. Allowing a separate legal system for groups

which have been given precedence over the Constitution of India is

certainly more than bending backwards to offer equal rights. Other

laws such as those of family planning, religious protection etc have

been executed in a manner to protect those who show religious

sentiments against these practices. The list goes on, the essence of

which is that at least on a country level (irrespective of how

individuals treat other religions) an attempt has been made to honor

their sense and sensibilities.

 

Obviously something hasn't worked or we wouldn't be having the problem

any more. For starters, I have often wondered why our well known

fanatics don't fight to insist on the supremacy of the Constitution

and that all other law has to defer to it. Famous legal cases like

that of Saha (sp) Banu and others more recently have demonstrated that

educated Muslims themselves want a change. So why hasn't that been

addressed?

 

And most importantly, what is the role of people in general and

conscious sadhaks in particular? What, if at all, can be done at the

grass roots level to bring about change and understanding?

 

I'm still waiting for posts from those who wish to discuss this in a

mature manner. This is no place for any childish ranting and raving.

 

_/\_ Tat Twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

 

 

, baburoy <no_reply wrote:

>

>> A big solution to this problem would be to understand others. There

are

> right people and wrong people everywhere. The wrong have to be

ignored/

> politey told to stop.

>

> Fighting/ Killing will not stop the hatred.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Baba,

 

I am in agreement with shan for below messege.

 

In My views the best thing one sadhak can do is to

serve, SERVICE to those truly required, its irrelevent

whether the religion is different,Human society should

be criteria.Every individual can help others as per

his/her capacity by way of teaching,helping,offering

food etc.This is at individual level.

 

I disagree what Uma says that there have been efforts

made for uplifting the minorities esp. in India, but

she forgets at the same time that it wasnt a type of

service but that ultimatly aims for gaining the

elections.The want of votes made the service converted

into wrong system.Its agreed that it had some positive

side of it. Earlier these were time bound concessions

,now they have become forever,

 

The system to offer concessions to minorities forever

is totally wrong, since the minority society also have

rich and poor people.Quality and individual capacity

has to be found out and accordingly the facilties to

be offered.

 

As far as muslims are concerned I can see Muslims are

growing in compound manner and other religions in

straight( 2 for 2).

 

No human society can survive with concepts of hatred

and killer intentions like what muslims appear now,

neither any religion grow with it.

 

 

 

--- shanracer <no_reply> wrote:

 

> Babaji, pls dont quit. History will prove you right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Uma,

 

Talking about the minorities rights etc. may be correct here in this

forum, just wanted to touch base here that in India it is a matter

of geting votes.

What people lack is education (different from being literate) and

when educated they would know what is right/ what is wrong.

 

People across the borders infiltrate everyday in scores, nothing is

done to stop them - on the contrary they are provided voter id cards.

 

One this stops, we have a educated country (atleast the majority of

the people), I am sure it will be a 'Sone ki Chiriya', as it used to

be once.

 

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi wrote:

>

> Dear Baburoy

>

[Guest guest]

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi wrote:

>

 

> know, minorities are given such amazing rights in India that it

> astonishes legal experts across the globe sine nothing like that

> exists anywhere else.

---

THIS IS THE BIGGEST FOLLY OF INDIA TO HAVE ALLOWED SUCH SEPARATE

CONSTITUITION FOR MUSLIMS !! We are going to pay back heavily for

this....India is the only country to have such constitution.

-

 

>

> Obviously something hasn't worked or we wouldn't be having the

problem

> any more. For starters, I have often wondered why our well known

> fanatics don't fight to insist on the supremacy of the Constitution

> and that all other law has to defer to it.

--

 

seems your GK on India needs refreshing course. For Your kind

information, the RIGHTIST parties in India have been fighting for

Uniform civil code for long and there had been a big hue and cry

against it from those politicians who are in the seat, but are

enemies of India and of course pseudo-secularists outwrightly

rejected such a code..saying it will hurt muslim brothers.

---

> And most importantly, what is the role of people in general and

> conscious sadhaks in particular? What, if at all, can be done at

the

> grass roots level to bring about change and understanding?

 

--------

 

A true duty of a sadhaka is to see the Negativity in its true form,

be aware of it and tell his people to be cautious....and this is what

i have been doing !!

 

=====================================================================

 

love

 

baba

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

Thanks Shanracer, you have good knowledge but try to be a little more

impersonal , We are all here as one soul in different bodies trying to

find truth, sometimes by sharing love and sometimes playing friendly

wars !

 

As God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient power so is his

will....In fact our will power is not a separate egoistic entity

(though we all take it like that)...our will is necessarily a share of

the will of the God.

 

Like god, will is also omnipresent. It can throw itself into all

with whom it comes into contact and give them temporarily or

permanently a portion of its power, its thought its entuhsiasms. The

thought of a solitary man can become, by exercise of selfless and

undoubting will, the thought of a nation.

 

The will of a single hero can breathe courage into the hearts of a

million cowards. This we clearly saw in the case of Gandhiji.

 

This is the sadhana that we have to accomplish. This is the

condition of our emancipation. We have been using an imperfect will

with imperfect faith and imperfect disinterestedness. Yet the task we

have before us is not less difficult than to move a mountain.

 

The force that can do it, ixists. But it is hidden in a secret

chamber within us and of that chamber God holds the key.

 

Let us find Him and claim it. Rest all is the struggle to get

that key.

 

love

 

Baba