Guest guest Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Usha Devi wrote: My dearest friends and siblings, I pray that everyone has a safe and joyous month, with the love of the Great Mother glowing in your hearts. Today, we begin a discussion of tantra. There are several people here who already know much about this, and I invite them to share what they know. I hope to learn from you, as I shall attempt to teach what I know of the subject. Today I shall begin the discussion with a short history lesson. This I am distributing to all of the lists of which I am owner. Tomorrow, I shall separate this into two parts, each a series of daily postings. Non-sexual aspects of tantra I shall share with the kali list. This list is devoted to discussion of Goddess theology and is open to children. Sexual aspects of tantra I shall discuss on the a1sex, a1women, and messalina lists. These are open only to adults. A short history of India is appropriate here. 5000 years ago, India was inhabited by dark-skinned peoples who worshipped a Supreme Mother Goddess. Little is known about their beliefs and practices, but their religion appears to have been very mystical and highly spiritual. Approximately 3500 years ago, India was invaded and conquered by light-skinned Aryan peoples from the North. These people were very distant relatives of the Germans, Greeks, Romans, and Celts who moved in the opposite direction and conquered Europe. These were nomadic war-like people with many gods, the most powerful of them male. The Aryans brought with them a set of myths called the Vedas. Their early religion is called Vedic. The Aryans attempted to impose their religion upon the dark-skinned peoples whom they conquered, but were only partially successful. Today's Hinduism is a hybrid of the two. Most of the mythology appears to have Aryan origins, while the mysticism is primarily pre-Aryan. There is a tendency for rich people to worship the male Aryan gods, while poor people continue to worship the Great Mother Goddess, calling her by many names: Shakti, Durga, Parvati, Uma, Kali, and many others. Tantra is approximately 1500 years old, although it appears to draw on much older sources. In its beginnings, some aspects suggest that it was a reaction to some of the austerity of the predominant beliefs. Early tantrists created a ritual in which they would eat beef. Eating beef is of course prohibited in many other varieties of hinduism. Similarly, they invited prostitutes and other lower-caste people to participate in their gatherings, in violation of the caste rules. They had two basic aspects to their philosophy: 1. Religious rituals should be events in which one is allowed to break societal rules and do things that one would normally not do (such as eating beef and socializing with prostitutes); and 2. The path to spiritual enlightenment lies through mastery of the senses. This second is the exact opposite of yoga, which seeks to turn the mind inward away from the senses. Tantrists attempt to stimulate the senses to the maximum extent possible. The goal is to face these very intense stimulations head-on and conquer them. Tantra spread across India and still survives today. Some buddhists have adopted tantric methods although the idea was originally hindu. In the 19th Century, the British conquered India. They were of course christians and attempted to impose their values on the Subcontinent. Their descriptions of tantra contain words such as "appalling" and "obscene." They outlawed some tantric practices, and sought to discredit tantra by slanderously saying that tantrists murder babies and other nonsense like that. Jai Ma! Sister Usha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Sorry Usha, but the Aryan Invasion of India is a myth. It never happened. - Shu Jah'vi Kali_Ma Monday, March 13, 2006 10:55 AM FW: history of tantra Usha Devi wrote:My dearest friends and siblings, I pray that everyone has a safe and joyous month, with the love ofthe Great Mother glowing in your hearts. Today, we begin a discussion of tantra. There are severalpeople here who already know much about this, and I invite them toshare what they know. I hope to learn from you, as I shall attempt toteach what I know of the subject. Today I shall begin the discussion with a short historylesson. This I am distributing to all of the lists of which I amowner. Tomorrow, I shall separate this into two parts, each a seriesof daily postings. Non-sexual aspects of tantra I shall share withthe kali list. This list is devoted to discussion of Goddess theologyand is open to children. Sexual aspects of tantra I shall discuss onthe a1sex, a1women, and messalina lists. These are open only toadults. A short history of India is appropriate here. 5000 years ago,India was inhabited by dark-skinned peoples who worshipped a SupremeMother Goddess. Little is known about their beliefs and practices,but their religion appears to have been very mystical and highlyspiritual. Approximately 3500 years ago, India was invaded andconquered by light-skinned Aryan peoples from the North. These peoplewere very distant relatives of the Germans, Greeks, Romans, and Celtswho moved in the opposite direction and conquered Europe. These werenomadic war-like people with many gods, the most powerful of themmale. The Aryans brought with them a set of myths called the Vedas.Their early religion is called Vedic. The Aryans attempted to imposetheir religion upon the dark-skinned peoples whom they conquered, butwere only partially successful. Today's Hinduism is a hybrid of thetwo. Most of the mythology appears to have Aryan origins, while themysticism is primarily pre-Aryan. There is a tendency for rich peopleto worship the male Aryan gods, while poor people continue to worshipthe Great Mother Goddess, calling her by many names: Shakti, Durga,Parvati, Uma, Kali, and many others. Tantra is approximately 1500 years old, although it appears todraw on much older sources. In its beginnings, some aspects suggestthat it was a reaction to some of the austerity of the predominantbeliefs. Early tantrists created a ritual in which they would eatbeef. Eating beef is of course prohibited in many other varieties ofhinduism. Similarly, they invited prostitutes and other lower-castepeople to participate in their gatherings, in violation of the casterules. They had two basic aspects to their philosophy: 1. Religiousrituals should be events in which one is allowed to break societalrules and do things that one would normally not do (such as eatingbeef and socializing with prostitutes); and 2. The path to spiritualenlightenment lies through mastery of the senses. This second is theexact opposite of yoga, which seeks to turn the mind inward away fromthe senses. Tantrists attempt to stimulate the senses to the maximumextent possible. The goal is to face these very intense stimulationshead-on and conquer them. Tantra spread across India and still survives today. Somebuddhists have adopted tantric methods although the idea wasoriginally hindu. In the 19th Century, the British conquered India.They were of course christians and attempted to impose their valueson the Subcontinent. Their descriptions of tantra contain words suchas "appalling" and "obscene." They outlawed some tantric practices,and sought to discredit tantra by slanderously saying that tantristsmurder babies and other nonsense like that.Jai Ma!Sister Usha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 Yes If we see the ancient cities like Harappa Mohen Jo Daro Lothal, they look to be abandoned and not destroyed by invaders. The Aranyans came down from the Caucasian Mountains after the Indian Subcontinent crashed against the northern hemisphere and the Himalayas were raised to the top from sea level. Of course they interacted fought with the negroid stock inhabiting the part of India that had broken away from what is now Africa and South America. The settled on the bansk of river Indus and Saraswati. Indus flooded often and Saraswati dried up. The Aryans moved east to the Ganges plains and west wards. The influneced ancient Babylonian religion as it is the second religion which has the concept of a Female Universal Mother. As for Tantra it was against many derived practises of the Sanatan Dharma or the subsequent adaptation of a Diety religion of the Brhamins. It abhored the practice of Sati etc hence it was opposed by the then brahmins who spread rumprs about Tantriks that they eat human brain etc etc. I have read many "rituals" which can not be considered pure. They are purely construct. Like chanting the Mothers nmae into the mensturating vagina of a prostitute etc etc. Jai Maa --- Mahamuni <mahamuni wrote: > Sorry Usha, but the Aryan Invasion of India is a > myth. It never happened. > - > Shu Jah'vi > Kali_Ma > Monday, March 13, 2006 10:55 AM > FW: history of tantra > > > > Usha Devi wrote: > My dearest friends and siblings, > I pray that everyone has a safe and joyous > month, with the love of > the Great Mother glowing in your hearts. > > Today, we begin a discussion of tantra. > There are several > people here who already know much about this, and > I invite them to > share what they know. I hope to learn from you, as > I shall attempt to > teach what I know of the subject. > > Today I shall begin the discussion with a > short history > lesson. This I am distributing to all of the lists > of which I am > owner. Tomorrow, I shall separate this into two > parts, each a series > of daily postings. Non-sexual aspects of tantra I > shall share with > the kali list. This list is devoted to discussion > of Goddess theology > and is open to children. Sexual aspects of tantra > I shall discuss on > the a1sex, a1women, and messalina lists. These are > open only to > adults. > > A short history of India is appropriate > here. 5000 years ago, > India was inhabited by dark-skinned peoples who > worshipped a Supreme > Mother Goddess. Little is known about their > beliefs and practices, > but their religion appears to have been very > mystical and highly > spiritual. Approximately 3500 years ago, India was > invaded and > conquered by light-skinned Aryan peoples from the > North. These people > were very distant relatives of the Germans, > Greeks, Romans, and Celts > who moved in the opposite direction and conquered > Europe. These were > nomadic war-like people with many gods, the most > powerful of them > male. > > The Aryans brought with them a set of myths > called the Vedas. > Their early religion is called Vedic. The Aryans > attempted to impose > their religion upon the dark-skinned peoples whom > they conquered, but > were only partially successful. Today's Hinduism > is a hybrid of the > two. Most of the mythology appears to have Aryan > origins, while the > mysticism is primarily pre-Aryan. There is a > tendency for rich people > to worship the male Aryan gods, while poor people > continue to worship > the Great Mother Goddess, calling her by many > names: Shakti, Durga, > Parvati, Uma, Kali, and many others. > > Tantra is approximately 1500 years old, > although it appears to > draw on much older sources. In its beginnings, > some aspects suggest > that it was a reaction to some of the austerity of > the predominant > beliefs. Early tantrists created a ritual in which > they would eat > beef. Eating beef is of course prohibited in many > other varieties of > hinduism. Similarly, they invited prostitutes and > other lower-caste > people to participate in their gatherings, in > violation of the caste > rules. > > They had two basic aspects to their > philosophy: 1. Religious > rituals should be events in which one is allowed > to break societal > rules and do things that one would normally not do > (such as eating > beef and socializing with prostitutes); and 2. The > path to spiritual > enlightenment lies through mastery of the senses. > This second is the > exact opposite of yoga, which seeks to turn the > mind inward away from > the senses. Tantrists attempt to stimulate the > senses to the maximum > extent possible. The goal is to face these very > intense stimulations > head-on and conquer them. > > Tantra spread across India and still survives > today. Some > buddhists have adopted tantric methods although > the idea was > originally hindu. In the 19th Century, the British > conquered India. > They were of course christians and attempted to > impose their values > on the Subcontinent. Their descriptions of tantra > contain words such > as "appalling" and "obscene." They outlawed some > tantric practices, > and sought to discredit tantra by slanderously > saying that tantrists > murder babies and other nonsense like that. > > Jai Ma! > > Sister Usha > > > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "Kali_Ma" on the web. > > b.. To from this group, send an > email to: > Kali_Ma > > c.. Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 I've been around many sadhus from many very old lineages, such as the Nagas of Jhuna Akhara, and they have no teaching or collective memory of any Aryan invasion taking place. My guru, Mata Amritananadamayi, echoes the same. It is a myth started by one Western man. It is now commonly refuted. - Sanjay Lulla Kali_Ma Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:33 AM Re: FW: history of tantra Yes If we see the ancient cities like Harappa Mohen JoDaro Lothal, they look to be abandoned and notdestroyed by invaders. The Aranyans came down from theCaucasian Mountains after the Indian Subcontinentcrashed against the northern hemisphere and theHimalayas were raised to the top from sea level. Ofcourse they interacted fought with the negroid stockinhabiting the part of India that had broken away fromwhat is now Africa and South America.The settled on the bansk of river Indus and Saraswati.Indus flooded often and Saraswati dried up. The Aryansmoved east to the Ganges plains and west wards. Theinfluneced ancient Babylonian religion as it is thesecond religion which has the concept of a FemaleUniversal Mother.As for Tantra it was against many derived practises ofthe Sanatan Dharma or the subsequent adaptation of aDiety religion of the Brhamins. It abhored thepractice of Sati etc hence it was opposed by the thenbrahmins who spread rumprs about Tantriks that theyeat human brain etc etc. I have read many "rituals"which can not be considered pure. They are purelyconstruct. Like chanting the Mothers nmae into themensturating vagina of a prostitute etc etc.Jai Maa--- Mahamuni <mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:> Sorry Usha, but the Aryan Invasion of India is a> myth. It never happened.> ----- Original Message ----- > Shu Jah'vi > Kali_Ma > Monday, March 13, 2006 10:55 AM> FW: history of tantra> > > > Usha Devi wrote:> My dearest friends and siblings,> I pray that everyone has a safe and joyous> month, with the love of> the Great Mother glowing in your hearts.> > Today, we begin a discussion of tantra.> There are several> people here who already know much about this, and> I invite them to> share what they know. I hope to learn from you, as> I shall attempt to> teach what I know of the subject.> > Today I shall begin the discussion with a> short history> lesson. This I am distributing to all of the lists> of which I am> owner. Tomorrow, I shall separate this into two> parts, each a series> of daily postings. Non-sexual aspects of tantra I> shall share with> the kali list. This list is devoted to discussion> of Goddess theology> and is open to children. Sexual aspects of tantra> I shall discuss on> the a1sex, a1women, and messalina lists. These are> open only to> adults.> > A short history of India is appropriate> here. 5000 years ago,> India was inhabited by dark-skinned peoples who> worshipped a Supreme> Mother Goddess. Little is known about their> beliefs and practices,> but their religion appears to have been very> mystical and highly> spiritual. Approximately 3500 years ago, India was> invaded and> conquered by light-skinned Aryan peoples from the> North. These people> were very distant relatives of the Germans,> Greeks, Romans, and Celts> who moved in the opposite direction and conquered> Europe. These were> nomadic war-like people with many gods, the most> powerful of them> male.> > The Aryans brought with them a set of myths> called the Vedas.> Their early religion is called Vedic. The Aryans> attempted to impose> their religion upon the dark-skinned peoples whom> they conquered, but> were only partially successful. Today's Hinduism> is a hybrid of the> two. Most of the mythology appears to have Aryan> origins, while the> mysticism is primarily pre-Aryan. There is a> tendency for rich people> to worship the male Aryan gods, while poor people> continue to worship> the Great Mother Goddess, calling her by many> names: Shakti, Durga,> Parvati, Uma, Kali, and many others.> > Tantra is approximately 1500 years old,> although it appears to> draw on much older sources. In its beginnings,> some aspects suggest> that it was a reaction to some of the austerity of> the predominant> beliefs. Early tantrists created a ritual in which> they would eat> beef. Eating beef is of course prohibited in many> other varieties of> hinduism. Similarly, they invited prostitutes and> other lower-caste> people to participate in their gatherings, in> violation of the caste> rules.> > They had two basic aspects to their> philosophy: 1. Religious> rituals should be events in which one is allowed> to break societal> rules and do things that one would normally not do> (such as eating> beef and socializing with prostitutes); and 2. The> path to spiritual> enlightenment lies through mastery of the senses.> This second is the> exact opposite of yoga, which seeks to turn the> mind inward away from> the senses. Tantrists attempt to stimulate the> senses to the maximum> extent possible. The goal is to face these very> intense stimulations> head-on and conquer them.> > Tantra spread across India and still survives> today. Some> buddhists have adopted tantric methods although> the idea was> originally hindu. In the 19th Century, the British> conquered India.> They were of course christians and attempted to> impose their values> on the Subcontinent. Their descriptions of tantra> contain words such> as "appalling" and "obscene." They outlawed some> tantric practices,> and sought to discredit tantra by slanderously> saying that tantrists> murder babies and other nonsense like that.> > Jai Ma!> > Sister Usha> > > > >> > > a.. Visit your group "Kali_Ma" on the web.> > b.. To from this group, send an> email to:> Kali_Ma> > c.. Your use of is subject to the> > > >> > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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