My Introduction & Spiritual Questions - Seeking Clarification.

[Guest guest]

Jai SrIman nArAyaNa

SrimathE RaamAnujAya namaha

 

My name is Mukundan Vankipuram Pattangi, and I come here seeking

spiritual guidance. To learn our SriVaishnava Sampradaya and follow

it with some understanding.

 

I am extremely greatful to HH SrIman nArAyaNa Jeeyar Swami for

taking the time to help and guide us on this list.

 

Towards understanding what we do, I have been asking learned scholars

for answers, the answers provided by HH SrIman nArAyaNa Jeeyar Swami

have provided a unique insight & easily understood.

 

I would be posting a few questions every week starting with the following:

 

Q1. ThirumaN & SrEEChurnam:

=========================

I would like to know the Spiritual & physical (if any) reasons

for applying Dwadasa Pundras (12 Thirumans)

 

How long ago did the practice Start. (The coloring of SreeChurnam

to make it Red in color could not have been aNadi (forever in the past))

Why are there various forms of applying the Thiruman? Are there

references in our Puranas on how, where and when to apply Dwadasha

pundras?

 

Q2. Why do we chant Vedas and Prabhandas? Significance?

=====================================================

Vedas: How does our chanting provide (Loka KShemam and Shathi)?

Does God want to hear Vedas?

Does the Chanting induce bhakti & or any other feelings in us?

We are repeating the Prabhandas chanted by Alwars, they sang them after

being in the Bhakti trance for a long time. Would we feel what they felt?

 

 

Q3. Ekadashi Fasting.

=================

We see many pios people observing Ekadashi Fasting and Dwadashi Paranam.

Could you please explain the logic and reasoning behind this fasting.

 

 

Q4. Ultimate Reality : Shape, form and presence.

============================================

 

Quoting from another list:

"Some scholars say Ultimate Reality is devoid of a form (amUrta),

but it assumes a limited form (mUrtatA) for the sake of devotees

and this limited form is incomparable (anupama) ".

End Quote

 

The divine body taken by SrIman nArAyaNa at Sri Vaikuntha is the form

we believe has been there for ever.

 

Whom should we meditate on, nArAyaNa at Sri Vainkuntam and any other form

he has taken for us or the FormLess Untilmate reality (how to medidate on

a formless God.)

 

Where do the Real and Eternal mUlarUpa & avatArarUpa fit in the above

Quote. Could you explain on this?

 

 

Alwar EmberuManar Jeeyar ThiruVadiGale Sharanam

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Mukund Pattangi

[Guest guest]

Q1. ThirumaN & SrEEChurnam: =========================I would like to know the

Spiritual & physical (if any) reasonsfor applying Dwadasa Pundras (12

Thirumans)How long ago did the practice Start. (The coloring of SreeChurnamto

make it Red in color could not have been aNadi (forever in the past))Why are

there various forms of applying the Thiruman? Are therereferences in our

Puranas on how, where and when to apply Dwadashapundras?

*** *** *** ***

Jai Srimannarayana

 

The practice of wearing Thiruman started long ago. It is so evident in Pa:dma

Samhitha of Sri Pa:nchara:tra A:gama, which clearly describes Narayana, who is

to be meditated upon in A:ra:dhana, having U:rdhwapundram along with all other

jewellary and weapons.

 

Here we quote " Sri:bhu:mi sahitham de:vam lala:tay swe:tha mrutsnaya|

krutho:rdhwapundra thilakaihi manditham

chenrabhanubhihi||

niyuthai rayuthais chendraih vidyut ka:la:gni

ko:tibhihi|

samave:thai rivaikatra te:jah punjair visarpibhihi||

 

bhrajama:nam dura;lo:ham de:hamandala nirgathaih|

bha:sayantham jagath sarvam dhya:ye:th prakshi:na

kalmashaha||"

 

Here in the above slo:kas Lord has been described having somany u:rdwa pundra:s

along with Sri:de:vi & Bhu:de:vi. And that pundra thilakas' shining is so

illuminating the whole universe with their moon-light like prabha.

 

Other than Pa:dma Samhitha, we can see the mentioning of u:rdhwa pundrams in

other samhithas also. A:gamas are considered as more authentic scriptures even

by The Ve:das. Cha:ndo:gyo:panishad mentions about it in Na:rada &

Sanathkuma:ra discussion.

 

Regarding color of the pundram, in the above slo:kas it is mentioned to have in

'white'(swe:tha mruth) and the middle one should be in 'light red' (may be a

little dark pink) here again Pa:dma Samhitha says 'lala:ta thilakam sowmyam

di;pavath swe:tha mrutsnaya' and it goes like that.

The process to make the middle red one is followed by using termaric powder.

Termaric powder is not supposed to be used directly. It has to be purified. The

way to do that is to add it with lemon juice and another substance called

'veliga:ram' (what the english term for it? may be crystal) This veliga:ram has

to be purified again on fire. Then it becomes powder like. all these three

things will be mixed up and dried in shade, not under sun. That is what people

call as 'sri:chu:rnam'. With that the middle one like flame on the fire, to be

applied.

 

The places to apply the pundras are 12 in number. One on the fore head, four

all around the neck, two on shoulders, one on chest, three at the stomach and

one at the end of the spinal card. There are the key part of the body. They

need to be sanctified by applying pundram and chanting His name (there are 12

ke:sava etc names used to all these 12 pundras).

 

Whenever we take a shower in the morning, we decorate with 12 pundras. It is

enough to decorate once a day, not after the food is taken (like in the evening

times).

 

When we talk about the significance, we go through the sa:stras and that is all.

We can say a few reasons, of course, but confining to scriptures is really

beautiful.

 

For our satisfaction few things are told they are:

 

1. If one has pundras, he cannot do unwanted things. If he tries to do, the

society around will not allow him to do so.

 

2. It is a mark of respect to say that we belong to Lord Lakshmi Na:ra:yana.

 

3. Those parts of the body may be activated in satwic way by which we can think

and do better activities.

 

4. If we wear those pundras we become Srivaishnavas and it seems, the god of

death 'Yamaraj' will never look at us, according to Maha Bharat.

We are sure that these are enough points we discussed about.

-------Q2. Why do we chant Vedas and Prabhandas? Significance?

=====================================================Vedas: How does our

chanting provide (Loka KShemam and Shathi)?Does God want to hear Vedas?Does the

Chanting induce bhakti & or any other feelings in us?We are repeating the

Prabhandas chanted by Alwars, they sang them afterbeing in the Bhakti trance

for a long time. Would we feel what they felt

*** **** **** ****

 

A. God never asks us to chant Ve:das. Nor He is in need of listening to them

from us. He has somany Mukthas & Nityasu:ri:es with Him always, who are always

keep chanting Ve:das without any flaws, just for His sake only, without any

expectation. Chanting of Ve:das definetely provides welfare to the world at

large. It helps the one who is chanting and the one who is listening to that.

To the one who chants- it increases the memory power and powerful throat. It

also adds monitory benifites to him. If he really believes in it, it gives him

peace of mind and divine feelings also. It strenthens the 'will power' who

really believes in it and does Just Parayana.

 

To the listener, it elevates innter traits and makes one, feel divine. If it is

chanted with belief, it even sanctions mundane benifits too, which ultimately

help to choose divine path. Even if it is heard by the Nature, like plants and

trees, their yeild much be quite better than earlier.

 

Chanting prabandha:s also considered as equal to chanting the Vedas. In some

places, chanting Prabandhas, is respected higher than the Vedas itself and

while the diety of temples is in precession, in front of the diety, prabandha

is chanted and in the back side of the diety Vedas are chanted. We can observe

the practice. It is because, the devotees who chanted them were dived deep into

the ocean of divine qualities of Lord Narayana, couldnot contend themselves and

the whole experience overwhelmed and outpoured through their mouths. Their later

devotees recoreded them for us. But the important thing we should remember is,

the places, wherefrom the sounds produced in our body to say anything, are

quite common for anyone on this earth. So also, to those devotees whom we call

as Alwars. If we also chant the pasurams they have chanted in the same way

prescribed, if not immediately, but some day we will definitely be blessed with

such a devotion. Even otherwise, God will look at us wherever we chant them, for

, they are His lovely songs ever listened. What we need to understand is, chant

the divine songs of any Bhaktha of any language, in that particular language

only, when you call it chanting. But try to understand the meaning of those

songs in your own language. Some people say that translating them to our own

language will help in fastening the process of getting bhakthi. But it helps us

in learning the meaning to practice and feel. But to show some impact on our

heart, we must accept them as it is, in the same language it first appeared,

like Ramayana, Bhagavatham like scriptures in Sanskrit only. Divya Prabandhass

in Tamil only. Veda and Upanishad like things in their original form only.

Translations, no doubt, will help us to understand in a better way.

****

**** **** ***** Q3. Ekadashi Fasting. =================We see

many pios people observing Ekadashi Fasting and Dwadashi Paranam.Could you

please explain the logic and reasoning behind this fasting.

A. We observe E:kadasi fasting and Dwa:dasi pa:ranam (ending up fasting by

eating prasa:dam early in the morning, after praying to The Sun) because the

''smruthi scriptures'' say so. And we believe in them also. E:kadasi is also

named after "hari va:sara" means "a day takes us nearer to Lord Vishnu".

 

According to Cha:ndo:gyo:panishad, the food we eat makes our body and mind. It

says, the food we eat will be devided into 3 parts. Gross part form excreta and

will be released out. Middle part forms as flush. But the suttle part helps the

manas, (and it may not be the mind). So manas and body are the products of the

food we eat. If we want body a satwic one and the manas also should function

sa:twic, then one must eat sa:twic food.

 

Man is supposed to eat vegitarian food only that is produced from plants and

trees. They are called O:shadhi:s. Thaithari:yo:panishad says

"O:shadhi:bhyo:nnam, anna:th purushaha, sa va: e:sha purusho: anna rasamayaha".

It means the food man eats should be made out of vegitables, so man is called

"anna rasamaya". All the O:shadhi:s are grown and receive their energies from

the moon. Hence, moon is called "O:shadhi:pathi". Again here, as moon grows

and decreses(waxing & waning moon) his impact on the o:shadhies, as well as on

our body, also will be changing. The moon has 16 phases. There are 16 elements

in our bodies too. Our manas and buddhi are falling in 11th and 12th number. To

decreas the impact of the thamo:guna one needs to stop eating food on that day.

But to activate the Manas with sa:twic guna, one needs to chant divine name

with love and should keep himself amidst sa:twic people. Though, it is always

recommended to be practised, particularly on that day it helps a lot. When one

is spending his time with great people and chanting God's name, the love in God,

will automatically keep the food and sleep away from him. That is called

'upava:sa' and 'ja:garana'. This must come automatically, not by force. On the

dw:dasi day, moon's impact will be there on buddhi. So to keep it active with

satwaguna always, we offer food to God, make it Prasa:da and have darsan of the

Sun, and then take that prasa:dam by breaking fasting, which is called

'pa:rana'. Thus we practice e:kadasi & dwa;dasi.

 

*** ***

*** ***

 

Q4. Ultimate Reality : Shape, form and presence.

============================================ Quoting from another list:

"Some scholars say Ultimate Reality is devoid of a form (amUrta), but it assumes

a limited form (mUrtatA) for the sake of devoteesand this limited form is

incomparable (anupama) ".End QuoteThe divine body taken by SrIman nArAyaNa at

Sri Vaikuntha is the form we believe has been there for ever.Whom should we

meditate on, nArAyaNa at Sri Vainkuntam and any other formhe has taken for us

or the FormLess Untilmate reality (how to medidate on a formless God.) Where do

the Real and Eternal mUlarUpa & avatArarUpa fit in the aboveQuote. Could you

explain on this?

A. Yes, Ultimate reality is formless and has form also. What we need to

understand here is the word ''formless'' means ' not having a form as the

worldly forms are'. But when we say that 'there is a form' it means ''it's

form is par-excellence and no comparison at all'. In Sri vaikunttham, according

to a:gama:s, there is a form inexplicable in it's beauty etc.,qualities. It is

not mu:rtham(disposable). It is amu:rtham only(eternal. We call that form as

Sr:mannarayana, as revealed by A:gama:s. All the avata:ra:s of Lord Vishnu also

are amu:rta:s only. Though the bodies are appeared as human bodies, they are not

made of Pancha Bhu:thas but Pancha Upanishads. This is what precisely He

explained in the 4th Chapter of Bhagavadgi:tha, as "prakruthim swa:m

adhishtta:ya..." The mu:lavar(concecrated diety in the sanctum of the tempel)

though appears and made of worldly elements, yet, the power of the Lord inside

the temple is something beyond anybodies perception. if it is done according to

a:gamas.

 

Jai SrimanNarayan