A question

[Guest guest]

I have been a follower of Kali for only a short time. It is really hard to find

someone in my area (Nashville) who is also a follower of Her. Hence why I have

joined different e groups of Kali to try and glean a better understanding of

Her.

 

My main question right now is all of the different aspects She has. The hundreds

of names are sometimes quite confusing to me. I want to know is there a

reference someone can point out to me or a site on the web where I can get some

non confusing information about Ma. Again.. mainly dealing with Her different

aspects.

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

 

Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.

[Guest guest]

Kali_Ma, Charlie <witchatwork03> wrote:

> I have been a follower of Kali for only a short time. It is really

> hard to find someone in my area (Nashville) who is also a follower

> of Her. Hence why I have joined different e groups of Kali to try

> and glean a better understanding of Her.

>

> My main question right now is all of the different aspects She has.

> The hundreds of names are sometimes quite confusing to me. I want

> to know is there a reference someone can point out to me or a site

> on the web where I can get some non confusing information about Ma.

> Again.. mainly dealing with Her different aspects.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Charlie

 

http://www.kalimandir.org/

 

You can send a question to Swami Bhajananda, which he may

or may not answer depending on how busy they are there.

 

Also, if you are close to St. Louis, you can visit the

Vedanta Society temple. http://www.vedantastl.org/

Swami Chetanananda has a lot of knowledge of Kali and

the famous shakta saint, Ramakrishna. If you called and

told him you wanted an appointment, I'm sure he'd arrange

to see you.

 

There are three books which I can recommend about Kali:

 

"Kali, The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar"

by Elizabeth U. Harding

Nicholas Hays, York Beach, Maine

 

"Kali, The Feminine Force"

by Ajit Mookerjee

Destiny Books, NYC

 

"Encountering Kali"

ed. by Rachel McDermott and Jeffrey Kripal

University of California Press, Berkeley

 

> As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

>

>

>

>

> Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.

[Guest guest]

I should add that neither of these swamis have any real

knowledge of paganism. All their information is coming

out of the tradtional shakta context, and it's likely

that they may have some comment regarding paganism that

you may or may not want to hear.

 

Kali_Ma, "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr> wrote:

> Kali_Ma, Charlie <witchatwork03> wrote:

> > I have been a follower of Kali for only a short time. It is really

> > hard to find someone in my area (Nashville) who is also a follower

> > of Her. Hence why I have joined different e groups of Kali to try

> > and glean a better understanding of Her.

> >

> > My main question right now is all of the different aspects She has.

> > The hundreds of names are sometimes quite confusing to me. I want

> > to know is there a reference someone can point out to me or a site

> > on the web where I can get some non confusing information about Ma.

> > Again.. mainly dealing with Her different aspects.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Charlie

>

> http://www.kalimandir.org/

>

> You can send a question to Swami Bhajananda, which he may

> or may not answer depending on how busy they are there.

>

> Also, if you are close to St. Louis, you can visit the

> Vedanta Society temple. http://www.vedantastl.org/

> Swami Chetanananda has a lot of knowledge of Kali and

> the famous shakta saint, Ramakrishna. If you called and

> told him you wanted an appointment, I'm sure he'd arrange

> to see you.

>

> There are three books which I can recommend about Kali:

>

> "Kali, The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar"

> by Elizabeth U. Harding

> Nicholas Hays, York Beach, Maine

>

> "Kali, The Feminine Force"

> by Ajit Mookerjee

> Destiny Books, NYC

>

> "Encountering Kali"

> ed. by Rachel McDermott and Jeffrey Kripal

> University of California Press, Berkeley

>

> > As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.

[Guest guest]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I have followed the posts of yours when people were talking about paganism and

Ma. Everyone has an opinion.

 

It is odd that this thread has come up now. I have been at a cross roads in my

spirituality. I had been considering devoting myself to Kali. Quite honestly..

after reading your posts.. I am not going to go thru with it. This is not meant

negatively to you or anyone else. But the blind devotion idea, sorry it is not

for me. If I had wanted that I would have stayed in Christianity.

 

I have come to the point that I realize what I believe in mostly is myself. I

have the power and strength to stand up and control my life. I also believe in

the idea of Ma. I look now upon Her as a force that is needed in my life. A

role model if you will.

 

I do not feel your way is incorrect. It is simply not the path I am meant to

walk. Nor do I feel that you are more enlightend than I because you can just ..

to use a Christian term.. "Let go and Let God" Or Goddess in this case. You

come to Her in blind faith/devotion..,I come to Her as a Witch who cannot give

blind devotion but needs Her strength and love in my life. And the best thing

is .. She has both of us.

 

No.. I might not like to hear what a Swami might have to tell me about being a

Witch. I live with that with every day. After a while it makes your skin thick

and sometimes makes you start avoiding the type of person that likes to point

out how you are wrong and they are right. The Gods and the choices I have made

in my life made me who and what I am. To date it has been a grand ride.. I look

forward to whatever else I am given.

 

And why is it that you are typing with a 102 fever? You should be in the bed

with lots of fluids and Tylenol. Hope you feel better.

 

Jai Ma!

 

Charlie As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

[Guest guest]

I have the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and i dont agree with everything he

believed. Do you know he was against women being in the work force? It's there

in his own words in the Gospel of shri Rama Krishna. But I still learn from his

words, I still loved what he did. That does not mean i have to agree with

everything he said. Also I read eighter it was in his gospel or the book called

Kali that he asked Kali to heal a friend and offered her green coconuts for it.

When someone he did not want near him he would ask Ma to send him away and then

say but if it's your will I will see him.

 

Talking about Bhamakempa now a Saint to Tara he would heal people in the name of

Tara and once he even touched a man and killed him.Look at the book called Kali

by Elizabeth U. harding its there in the chapter about Tara. So what is the

difference if I call Tara into me and do a healing the way i was taught to do

so or the way i channeled it from a higher source?

I do not believe in just letting things go...That is against my True Will, not

my will. I have had many conversations with my HGA. I do study the works of

Aleister Crowley. I was in the OTO. I am devoted to Kali as well. In fact I

believe there was an OTO lodge way back 10 years ago or so named Kali Lodge.

 

So Charles you dont need to give up on Kali.

No one can say anything to change what I believe in. I know this to be the

truth, my truth. Remember one person's truth is another person's lie. One

person's religion is another person's heresy. Who is right?

Many Christians say that basically we are all going to hell for being devoted to

the Goddess or believing in many gods. The Muslims Koran calls us infidels for

not being Muslims. In fact it says if you see an infidel you must kill them.

In the old testament there's a passage where they were told by god to kill all

the Pagans. Then there are some Christians who call worshiping Idols or even

praying to one is the Devil's work. So to them most Hindus and many other

religions are doing the Devil's work. Do you see where I'm getting at? Everyone

has a belief. How can a Wiccan tell a Hindu you're wrong for what you believe in

that your devotion is of the lowest form without the Hindu telling the Wiccan

the same thing? I have my own beliefs and I know if I do a spell the Goddess

has ultimate vito power. She can say "nope you're going to be single for a

while" or nope " you're not going to be a famous singer this year" She has

ultimate vito power.

So yes I do believe in devotion to the goddess and for anyone telling me my

devotion sucks is just plain wrong and even a bit intolerant. I love Kali so

much, so very very much that I think about her all day and all night long. No

one can tell me that I'm less devoted to her cause I dont do it "their way."

here's my belief as many people so there are many religions.

Kalimir

 

Charlie <witchatwork03 > wrote:

I should add that neither of these swamis have any realknowledge of paganism.

All their information is comingout of the tradtional shakta context, and it's

likely that they may have some comment regarding paganism thatyou may or may

not want to hear.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I have followed the posts of yours when people were talking about paganism and

Ma. Everyone has an opinion.

 

It is odd that this thread has come up now. I have been at a cross roads in my

spirituality. I had been considering devoting myself to Kali. Quite honestly..

after reading your posts.. I am not going to go thru with it. This is not meant

negatively to you or anyone else. But the blind devotion idea, sorry it is not

for me. If I had wanted that I would have stayed in Christianity.

 

I have come to the point that I realize what I believe in mostly is myself. I

have the power and strength to stand up and control my life. I also believe in

the idea of Ma. I look now upon Her as a force that is needed in my life. A

role model if you will.

 

I do not feel your way is incorrect. It is simply not the path I am meant to

walk. Nor do I feel that you are more enlightend than I because you can just ..

to use a Christian term.. "Let go and Let God" Or Goddess in this case. You

come to Her in blind faith/devotion..,I come to Her as a Witch who cannot give

blind devotion but needs Her strength and love in my life. And the best thing

is .. She has both of us.

 

No.. I might not like to hear what a Swami might have to tell me about being a

Witch. I live with that with every day. After a while it makes your skin thick

and sometimes makes you start avoiding the type of person that likes to point

out how you are wrong and they are right. The Gods and the choices I have made

in my life made me who and what I am. To date it has been a grand ride.. I look

forward to whatever else I am given.

 

And why is it that you are typing with a 102 fever? You should be in the bed

with lots of fluids and Tylenol. Hope you feel better.

 

Jai Ma!

 

Charlie

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Kali_Ma, Charlie <witchatwork03> wrote:

> I should add that neither of these swamis have any real

> knowledge of paganism. All their information is coming

> out of the tradtional shakta context, and it's likely

> that they may have some comment regarding paganism that

> you may or may not want to hear.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> I have followed the posts of yours when people were talking

> about paganism and Ma. Everyone has an opinion.

 

Being a person who revels in the expression of opinions,

I can testify to the truth of that statement!

 

> It is odd that this thread has come up now. I have been at a

> cross roads in my spirituality. I had been considering devoting

> myself to Kali. Quite honestly.. after reading your posts.. I am

> not going to go thru with it. This is not meant negatively to you

> or anyone else. But the blind devotion idea, sorry it is not for

> me. If I had wanted that I would have stayed in Christianity.

 

I think my enthusiasm for the tradition of shaktism

is getting misread a bit.

 

Kali could give a fuck how you come at Her. Really.

If you want to be a witch, Kali doesn't care. If you

want to be a shakta, Kali doesn't care. If you feel

you are both, She doesn't care about that either.

 

Now, the swamis may care, but that's only because they've

been born and raised in a certain tradition. As far as

Kali is concerned, however you approach Her is how She

will accept you.

 

Don't let my tendency to sound pedantic put you off. I'm

just an enthusiastic debator, not a fundamentalist, really.

 

While I believe that total surrender to Ma is the only way

to go, *HOW* you go about that is utterly and entirely up

to you. IOW, what total devotion *IS* is completely up to

you, not to the swamis, or the witches, or myself. I've

just been initiated in a certain tradition, and I've noted

the effects of a certain approach. Your mileage will vary.

 

The most important aspect of any of this is your own sincerity

and devotion, not the form it takes or how well that form

adheres to traditions, in India or anywhere else.

 

> I have come to the point that I realize what I believe in mostly

> is myself. I have the power and strength to stand up and control

> my life. I also believe in the idea of Ma. I look now upon Her as

> a force that is needed in my life. A role model if you will.

 

That all sounds perfectly wonderful to me.

 

> I do not feel your way is incorrect. It is simply not the path I

> am meant to walk. Nor do I feel that you are more enlightend than

> I because you can just .. to use a Christian term.. "Let go and

> Let God" Or Goddess in this case. You come to Her in blind

> faith/devotion..,I come to Her as a Witch who cannot give blind

> devotion but needs Her strength and love in my life. And the best

> thing is .. She has both of us.

 

Exactly. But I want to make clear that my approach to Kali has

about as much in common with Christainity as it does French cuisine.

 

And, in the context of my tradition, I went way, WAY outside

the lines in many ways. While I was an active member of a

Kali temple and participated in many pujas there, my personal

take on Ma has very little in common with the rest of that

community.

 

> No.. I might not like to hear what a Swami might have to tell me

> about being a Witch. I live with that with every day. After a while

> it makes your skin thick and sometimes makes you start avoiding the

> type of person that likes to point out how you are wrong and they

> are right. The Gods and the choices I have made in my life made me

> who and what I am. To date it has been a grand ride.. I look

> forward to whatever else I am given.

 

Both the swamis are really great guys. They would not give you

a lecture. They would at worst perhaps attempt to gently steer

you toward a more traditional approach, one that was defined by

the shakta saint Ramakrishna. The temple that Swami Bhajananda

officiates at has many members who are witches. They come to the

pujas all the time. However, the approach there is very traditional.

Everyone respects that. Each brings there own way internally,

and each takes what they want in that context.

 

> And why is it that you are typing with a 102 fever? You should be

> in the bed with lots of fluids and Tylenol. Hope you feel better.

>

> Jai Ma!

>

> Charlie

 

Thanks Charlie.

 

I'm back at work at about 87% of my normal capacity.

I've survived West Nile fever, thanks to Ma.

 

--jody.

[Guest guest]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I wont back away from Ma. I dont think I could at any rate. She came to me.. not

the other way around. Actually scared the holy bejeebies out of me when She did

come to me. I just simply wont dedicate to Her totally at this time. I had been

at a cross roads with my spirituality and asked for an answer. To me this entire

thread has been wonderful. It has made me realize what I believe in and finally

accept it. So no worries

 

BTW.. Charles would be a males name.. and I am female No apoligies needed

tho.. it happens a lot when I corresponde with different lists. My birth name

is Undine and Charlie is actually a nick name.

 

You and I actually have more in common than I thought, I studied Ceremonial

Magick for a while and then delved into Thelema for a while. Neither fit me

just so .. so I dont call myself a Thelemite or a Ceremonialist. I have not

found any one path that is completely me inside and out. For a while it really

bothered me. It is very important for me to be able to put situations and

people in their "boxes". Then I had the good fortune to be able to sit and talk

for a bit with Issac Bonewits. I rambled off all of my confusion and

misconceptions about my path and myself to him. And he smiled and asked me what

puts me in touch with the Holy. That took me back a bit, but I answered him. He

then told me then do that. He asked me why was it so important to feel I had to

label myself and my path. And that it is ok to not have to do that. Rather

simple idea that a child could have figured out, but until someone sat and

pointed it out to me it just didnt occur to me to look at it that way. So

now I am a happy Witch. Easiest way I can describe myself. = )

 

Thank you for your words of kindness and encouragement,

 

Jai Ma!!

 

Charlie As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

 

Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.

[Guest guest]

I'm having a Senior Moment, but there's an American feminist who wrote an

essay to the effect that there is a Western Kali, and an Eastern Kali.

That so many non-Hindus have been attracted to Kali, that they have built

up a thought-form of this feminist, women-liberating Goddess who can be

worshipped in a Wiccan or Neo-Pagan manner. Meanwhile, Hindus continue

to worship Kali with Puja offerings, and see Her as the force behind Maya

(the world of illusion), surrendering their preconceptions to the

Goddess.

 

As someone who often teaches Neo-Pagans about Kali (and other Hindu

goddesses), I've noted a tendancy for Westerners to come to me, saying,

"I'm really into Dark Goddesses. How do I sacrifice an animal to Kali?

Can I offer Her a hamburger?"

 

My usual response is, "the dark is only part of the cycle of Life.

Respect is due to Dark Goddesses, but also pay attention to the Light

Goddesses. I feel that anyone drawn to Kali should also revere Light

Goddesses like Lakshmi or Durga. Most Hindus worship Durga during the

waxing phases of the Moon, and Kali during the waning phases."

 

So far as sacrifice is concerned, I recommend sacrificing one's ego,

delusions and misconceptions. If you haven't been trained in methods of

animal slaughter, don't attempt to kill anything for Kali. Only male

animals are offered at Kali temples that perform sacrifice, and no Hindu

will kill a cow or bull -- they are sacred animals, symbolizing Mother

Earth. The point of sacrifice is not to offer dead meat to the Goddess,

but to pass life energy. I'd almost recommend using Aleister Crowley's

offering of "a perfect, unborn man-child" -- i.e., freshly ejaculated

semen. But that, of course, is also taboo in Hinduism.

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Maha Kali Tara Ma

<jai_ma_kali writes:

> Quite honestly I am a witch and I am very devoted to Kali. She comes

> in my dreams many times and there were times when I needed to

> magickally defend myself and she came in my dreams and allowed it. I

> had actually become her. So Charles you do not need to back away

> from Kali unless this is your True Will.

> I have the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and i dont agree with

> everything he believed. Do you know he was against women being in

> the work force? It's there in his own words in the Gospel of shri

> Rama Krishna. But I still learn from his words, I still loved what

> he did. That does not mean i have to agree with everything he said.

> Also I read eighter it was in his gospel or the book called Kali

> that he asked Kali to heal a friend and offered her green coconuts

> for it. When someone he did not want near him he would ask Ma to

> send him away and then say but if it's your will I will see him.

>

> Talking about Bhamakempa now a Saint to Tara he would heal people in

> the name of Tara and once he even touched a man and killed him.Look

> at the book called Kali by Elizabeth U. harding its there in the

> chapter about Tara. So what is the difference if I call Tara into me

> and do a healing the way i was taught to do so or the way i

> channeled it from a higher source?

> I do not believe in just letting things go...That is against my

> True Will, not my will. I have had many conversations with my HGA. I

> do study the works of Aleister Crowley. I was in the OTO. I am

> devoted to Kali as well. In fact I believe there was an OTO lodge

> way back 10 years ago or so named Kali Lodge.

>

> So Charles you dont need to give up on Kali.

> No one can say anything to change what I believe in. I know this to

> be the truth, my truth. Remember one person's truth is another

> person's lie. One person's religion is another person's heresy. Who

> is right?

> Many Christians say that basically we are all going to hell for

> being devoted to the Goddess or believing in many gods. The Muslims

> Koran calls us infidels for not being Muslims. In fact it says if

> you see an infidel you must kill them.

> In the old testament there's a passage where they were told by god

> to kill all the Pagans. Then there are some Christians who call

> worshiping Idols or even praying to one is the Devil's work. So to

> them most Hindus and many other religions are doing the Devil's

> work. Do you see where I'm getting at? Everyone has a belief. How

> can a Wiccan tell a Hindu you're wrong for what you believe in that

> your devotion is of the lowest form without the Hindu telling the

> Wiccan the same thing? I have my own beliefs and I know if I do a

> spell the Goddess has ultimate vito power. She can say "nope you're

> going to be single for a while" or nope " you're not going to be a

> famous singer this year" She has ultimate vito power.

> So yes I do believe in devotion to the goddess and for anyone

> telling me my devotion sucks is just plain wrong and even a bit

> intolerant. I love Kali so much, so very very much that I think

> about her all day and all night long. No one can tell me that I'm

> less devoted to her cause I dont do it "their way." here's my

> belief as many people so there are many religions.

> Kalimir

>

>

>

> Charlie <witchatwork03 wrote:

> I should add that neither of these swamis have any real

> knowledge of paganism. All their information is coming

> out of the tradtional shakta context, and it's likely

> that they may have some comment regarding paganism that

> you may or may not want to hear.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> I have followed the posts of yours when people were talking about

> paganism and Ma. Everyone has an opinion.

>

> It is odd that this thread has come up now. I have been at a cross

> roads in my spirituality. I had been considering devoting myself to

> Kali. Quite honestly.. after reading your posts.. I am not going to

> go thru with it. This is not meant negatively to you or anyone else.

> But the blind devotion idea, sorry it is not for me. If I had wanted

> that I would have stayed in Christianity.

>

> I have come to the point that I realize what I believe in mostly is

> myself. I have the power and strength to stand up and control my

> life. I also believe in the idea of Ma. I look now upon Her as a

> force that is needed in my life. A role model if you will.

>

> I do not feel your way is incorrect. It is simply not the path I am

> meant to walk. Nor do I feel that you are more enlightend than I

> because you can just .. to use a Christian term.. "Let go and Let

> God" Or Goddess in this case. You come to Her in blind

> faith/devotion..,I come to Her as a Witch who cannot give blind

> devotion but needs Her strength and love in my life. And the best

> thing is .. She has both of us.

>

> No.. I might not like to hear what a Swami might have to tell me

> about being a Witch. I live with that with every day. After a while

> it makes your skin thick and sometimes makes you start avoiding the

> type of person that likes to point out how you are wrong and they

> are right. The Gods and the choices I have made in my life made me

> who and what I am. To date it has been a grand ride.. I look forward

> to whatever else I am given.

>

> And why is it that you are typing with a 102 fever? You should be in

> the bed with lots of fluids and Tylenol. Hope you feel better.

>

> Jai Ma!

>

> Charlie

>

>

> As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

>

>

>

>

> New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

> Sponsor

>

>

>

> Links

>

>

> Kali_Ma/

>

>

> Kali_Ma

>

> Terms of

> Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Kali_Ma, kalipadma@j... wrote:

 

[snip]

 

> My usual response is, "the dark is only part of the cycle of Life.

> Respect is due to Dark Goddesses, but also pay attention to the Light

> Goddesses. I feel that anyone drawn to Kali should also revere Light

> Goddesses like Lakshmi or Durga. Most Hindus worship Durga during the

> waxing phases of the Moon, and Kali during the waning phases."

 

However Len, one can make Kali their only Goddess of worship

and not be limited to worshipping only a dark Goddess.

As the Mahashakti, Kali is all the Goddesses, light and dark.

 

--jody.

[Guest guest]

Anyways you do what is right for you. This is probably what the Divine had

planned for you. To do that is True Will.

 

Kalimir

Charlie <witchatwork03 > wrote:

So Charles you do not need to back away from Kali unless this is your True Will.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I wont back away from Ma. I dont think I could at any rate. She came to me.. not

the other way around. Actually scared the holy bejeebies out of me when She did

come to me. I just simply wont dedicate to Her totally at this time. I had been

at a cross roads with my spirituality and asked for an answer. To me this entire

thread has been wonderful. It has made me realize what I believe in and finally

accept it. So no worries

 

BTW.. Charles would be a males name.. and I am female No apoligies needed

tho.. it happens a lot when I corresponde with different lists. My birth name

is Undine and Charlie is actually a nick name.

 

You and I actually have more in common than I thought, I studied Ceremonial

Magick for a while and then delved into Thelema for a while. Neither fit me

just so .. so I dont call myself a Thelemite or a Ceremonialist. I have not

found any one path that is completely me inside and out. For a while it really

bothered me. It is very important for me to be able to put situations and

people in their "boxes". Then I had the good fortune to be able to sit and talk

for a bit with Issac Bonewits. I rambled off all of my confusion and

misconceptions about my path and myself to him. And he smiled and asked me what

puts me in touch with the Holy. That took me back a bit, but I answered him. He

then told me then do that. He asked me why was it so important to feel I had to

label myself and my path. And that it is ok to not have to do that. Rather

simple idea that a child could have figured out, but until someone sat and

pointed it out to me it just didnt occur to me to look at it that way. So

now I am a happy Witch. Easiest way I can describe myself. = )

 

Thank you for your words of kindness and encouragement,

 

Jai Ma!!

 

Charlie

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

[Guest guest]

Kalimir

kalipadma (AT) juno (DOT) com wrote:

I'm having a Senior Moment, but there's an American feminist who wrote anessay

to the effect that there is a Western Kali, and an Eastern Kali. That so many

non-Hindus have been attracted to Kali, that they have builtup a thought-form

of this feminist, women-liberating Goddess who can beworshipped in a Wiccan or

Neo-Pagan manner. Meanwhile, Hindus continueto worship Kali with Puja

offerings, and see Her as the force behind Maya(the world of illusion),

surrendering their preconceptions to theGoddess.As someone who often teaches

Neo-Pagans about Kali (and other Hindugoddesses), I've noted a tendancy for

Westerners to come to me, saying,"I'm really into Dark Goddesses. How do I

sacrifice an animal to Kali? Can I offer Her a hamburger?"My usual response is,

"the dark is only part of the cycle of Life. Respect

is due to Dark Goddesses, but also pay attention to the LightGoddesses. I feel

that anyone drawn to Kali should also revere LightGoddesses like Lakshmi or

Durga. Most Hindus worship Durga during thewaxing phases of the Moon, and Kali

during the waning phases."So far as sacrifice is concerned, I recommend

sacrificing one's ego,delusions and misconceptions. If you haven't been

trained in methods ofanimal slaughter, don't attempt to kill anything for Kali.

Only maleanimals are offered at Kali temples that perform sacrifice, and no

Hinduwill kill a cow or bull -- they are sacred animals, symbolizing

MotherEarth. The point of sacrifice is not to offer dead meat to the

Goddess,but to pass life energy. I'd almost recommend using Aleister

Crowley'soffering of "a perfect, unborn man-child" -- i.e., freshly

ejaculatedsemen. But that, of course, is also taboo in Hinduism.-- Len/

KalipadmaOn Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Maha Kali Tara

Ma<jai_ma_kali > writes:> Quite honestly I am a witch and I am very

devoted to Kali. She comes > in my dreams many times and there were times when

I needed to > magickally defend myself and she came in my dreams and allowed

it. I > had actually become her. So Charles you do not need to back away > from

Kali unless this is your True Will. > I have the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and i

dont agree with > everything he believed. Do you know he was against women being

in > the work force? It's there in his own words in the Gospel of shri > Rama

Krishna. But I still learn from his words, I still loved what > he did. That

does not mean i have to agree with everything he said. > Also I read eighter it

was in his gospel or the book called Kali > that he asked Kali to heal a friend

and offered her green coconuts

> for it. When someone he did not want near him he would ask Ma to > send him

away and then say but if it's your will I will see him. > > Talking about

Bhamakempa now a Saint to Tara he would heal people in > the name of Tara and

once he even touched a man and killed him.Look > at the book called Kali by

Elizabeth U. harding its there in the > chapter about Tara. So what is the

difference if I call Tara into me > and do a healing the way i was taught to do

so or the way i > channeled it from a higher source?> I do not believe in just

letting things go...That is against my > True Will, not my will. I have had

many conversations with my HGA. I > do study the works of Aleister Crowley. I

was in the OTO. I am > devoted to Kali as well. In fact I believe there was an

OTO lodge > way back 10 years ago or so named Kali Lodge. > > So Charles you

dont need to give

up on Kali. > No one can say anything to change what I believe in. I know this

to > be the truth, my truth. Remember one person's truth is another > person's

lie. One person's religion is another person's heresy. Who > is right? > Many

Christians say that basically we are all going to hell for > being devoted to

the Goddess or believing in many gods. The Muslims > Koran calls us infidels

for not being Muslims. In fact it says if > you see an infidel you must kill

them.> In the old testament there's a passage where they were told by god > to

kill all the Pagans. Then there are some Christians who call > worshiping Idols

or even praying to one is the Devil's work. So to > them most Hindus and many

other religions are doing the Devil's > work. Do you see where I'm getting at?

Everyone has a belief. How > can a Wiccan tell a Hindu you're wrong for what

you believe in that

> your devotion is of the lowest form without the Hindu telling the > Wiccan the

same thing? I have my own beliefs and I know if I do a > spell the Goddess has

ultimate vito power. She can say "nope you're > going to be single for a while"

or nope " you're not going to be a > famous singer this year" She has ultimate

vito power.> So yes I do believe in devotion to the goddess and for anyone >

telling me my devotion sucks is just plain wrong and even a bit > intolerant. I

love Kali so much, so very very much that I think > about her all day and all

night long. No one can tell me that I'm > less devoted to her cause I dont do

it "their way." here's my > belief as many people so there are many religions.

> Kalimir> > > > Charlie <witchatwork03 > wrote:> I should add that

neither of these swamis have any real> knowledge of

paganism. All their information is coming> out of the tradtional shakta

context, and it's likely > that they may have some comment regarding paganism

that> you may or may not want to hear.> >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> > I have followed the

posts of yours when people were talking about > paganism and Ma. Everyone has

an opinion. > > It is odd that this thread has come up now. I have been at a

cross > roads in my spirituality. I had been considering devoting myself to >

Kali. Quite honestly.. after reading your posts.. I am not going to > go thru

with it. This is not meant negatively to you or anyone else. > But the blind

devotion idea, sorry it is not for me. If I had wanted > that I would have

stayed in Christianity. > > I have come to the point that I realize what I

believe in mostly is > myself. I have

the power and strength to stand up and control my > life. I also believe in the

idea of Ma. I look now upon Her as a > force that is needed in my life. A role

model if you will. > > I do not feel your way is incorrect. It is simply not

the path I am > meant to walk. Nor do I feel that you are more enlightend than

I > because you can just .. to use a Christian term.. "Let go and Let > God" Or

Goddess in this case. You come to Her in blind > faith/devotion..,I come to

Her as a Witch who cannot give blind > devotion but needs Her strength and love

in my life. And the best > thing is .. She has both of us. > > No.. I might not

like to hear what a Swami might have to tell me > about being a Witch. I live

with that with every day. After a while > it makes your skin thick and

sometimes makes you start avoiding the > type of person that likes to point out

how you are wrong

and they > are right. The Gods and the choices I have made in my life made me >

who and what I am. To date it has been a grand ride.. I look forward > to

whatever else I am given. > > And why is it that you are typing with a 102

fever? You should be in > the bed with lots of fluids and Tylenol. Hope you

feel better. > > Jai Ma!> > Charlie > > > As a man thinks in his heart, so is

he. > > > > > New and Improved

Mail - Send 10MB messages! > Sponsor> > >

> Links> > To visit your

group on the web, go to:> Kali_Ma/> > To

from this group, send an email to:>

Kali_Ma> > Your use of is

subject to the Terms of > Service. > > > >

> > Mail - 50x more

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[Guest guest]

Kali_Ma, kalipadma@j... wrote:[snip]> My usual response

is, "the dark is only part of the cycle of Life. > Respect is due to Dark

Goddesses, but also pay attention to the Light> Goddesses. I feel that anyone

drawn to Kali should also revere Light> Goddesses like Lakshmi or Durga. Most

Hindus worship Durga during the> waxing phases of the Moon, and Kali during the

waning phases."However Len, one can make Kali their only Goddess of worshipand

not be limited to worshipping only a dark Goddess. As the Mahashakti, Kali is

all the Goddesses, light and dark.--jody.

 

Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Enter now.

[Guest guest]

Kali_Ma, Maha Kali Tara Ma <jai_ma_kali>

wrote:

 

[snip]

 

> No beef should ever be offered to the Hindu Gods or Goddesses.

>

>

>

> Kalimir

 

A goat is sacrificed every Amavasya at Dakshineswar.

 

--jody.

[Guest guest]

Kali_Ma, Maha Kali Tara Ma <jai_ma_kali>

wrote:

> Kali to me is the Maha Devi

 

The Mahashakti *is* the Mahadevi.

 

--jody.

[Guest guest]

Kalimirjodyrrr <jodyrrr > wrote:

Kali_Ma, Maha Kali Tara Ma

<jai_ma_kali>wrote:[snip]> No beef should ever be offered to the Hindu

Gods or Goddesses.> > > > KalimirA goat is sacrificed every Amavasya at

Dakshineswar.--jody.

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

[Guest guest]

In Tantric ritual, if the man ejaculates, the ritual is rendered invalid.

No seed is supposed to be emitted in Tantric ritual. This is why

Parvati is so frustrated in her desires for a baby. Although Shiva is

the most talented of lovers, as a tantric Yogi, he NEVER ejaculates -- so

Parvati never becomes pregnant.

 

-- Len/ Black Lotus

 

 

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Maha Kali Tara Ma

<jai_ma_kali writes:

> I dont think Westerners "conceived of this "Western Kali" I believe

> Kali showed Herself to Westerners this way. Actually in tantra this

> is not taboo of the spilling of seamon especially if its spilled

> into a woman. I am currently studying tantra. No beef should ever be

> offered to the Hindu Gods or Goddesses.

>

>

>

> Kalimir

>

>

> kalipadma wrote:

>

> I'm having a Senior Moment, but there's an American feminist who

> wrote an

> essay to the effect that there is a Western Kali, and an Eastern

> Kali.

> That so many non-Hindus have been attracted to Kali, that they have

> built

> up a thought-form of this feminist, women-liberating Goddess who can

> be

> worshipped in a Wiccan or Neo-Pagan manner. Meanwhile, Hindus

> continue

> to worship Kali with Puja offerings, and see Her as the force behind

> Maya

> (the world of illusion), surrendering their preconceptions to the

> Goddess.

>

> As someone who often teaches Neo-Pagans about Kali (and other Hindu

> goddesses), I've noted a tendancy for Westerners to come to me,

> saying,

> "I'm really into Dark Goddesses. How do I sacrifice an animal to

> Kali?

> Can I offer Her a hamburger?"

>

> My usual response is, "the dark is only part of the cycle of Life.

> Respect is due to Dark Goddesses, but also pay attention to the

> Light

> Goddesses. I feel that anyone drawn to Kali should also revere

> Light

> Goddesses like Lakshmi or Durga. Most Hindus worship Durga during

> the

> waxing phases of the Moon, and Kali during the waning phases."

>

> So far as sacrifice is concerned, I recommend sacrificing one's ego,

> delusions and misconceptions. If you haven't been trained in

> methods of

> animal slaughter, don't attempt to kill anything for Kali. Only

> male

> animals are offered at Kali temples that perform sacrifice, and no

> Hindu

> will kill a cow or bull -- they are sacred animals, symbolizing

> Mother

> Earth. The point of sacrifice is not to offer dead meat to the

> Goddess,

> but to pass life energy. I'd almost recommend using Aleister

> Crowley's

> offering of "a perfect, unborn man-child" -- i.e., freshly

> ejaculated

> semen. But that, of course, is also taboo in Hinduism.

>

> -- Len/ Kalipadma

>

>

> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Maha Kali Tara Ma

> <jai_ma_kali writes:

> > Quite honestly I am a witch and I am very devoted to Kali. She

> comes

> > in my dreams many times and there were times when I needed to

> > magickally defend myself and she came in my dreams and allowed it.

> I

> > had actually become her. So Charles you do not need to back away

> > from Kali unless this is your True Will.

> > I have the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and i dont agree with

> > everything he believed. Do you know he was against women being in

> > the work force? It's there in his own words in the Gospel of shri

> > Rama Krishna. But I still learn from his words, I still loved what

>

> > he did. That does not mean i have to agree with everything he

> said.

> > Also I read eighter it was in his gospel or the book called Kali

> > that he asked Kali to heal a friend and offered her green coconuts

>

> > for it. When someone he did not want near him he would ask Ma to

> > send him away and then say but if it's your will I will see him.

> >

> > Talking about Bhamakempa now a Saint to Tara he would heal people

> in

> > the name of Tara and once he even touched a man and killed

> him.Look

> > at the book called Kali by Elizabeth U. harding its there in the

> > chapter about Tara. So what is the difference if I call Tara into

> me

> > and do a healing the way i was taught to do so or the way i

> > channeled it from a higher source?

> > I do not believe in just letting things go...That is against my

> > True Will, not my will. I have had many conversations with my HGA.

> I

> > do study the works of Aleister Crowley. I was in the OTO. I am

> > devoted to Kali as well. In fact I believe there was an OTO lodge

> > way back 10 years ago or so named Kali Lodge.

> >

> > So Charles you dont need to give up on Kali.

> > No one can say anything to change what I believe in. I know this

> to

> > be the truth, my truth. Remember one person's truth is another

> > person's lie. One person's religion is another person's heresy.

> Who

> > is right?

> > Many Christians say that basically we are all going to hell for

> > being devoted to the Goddess or believing in many gods. The

> Muslims

> > Koran calls us infidels for not being Muslims. In fact it says if

> > you see an infidel you must kill them.

> > In the old testament there's a passage where they were told by

> god

> > to kill all the Pagans. Then there are some Christians who call

> > worshiping Idols or even praying to one is the Devil's work. So to

>

> > them most Hindus and many other religions are doing the Devil's

> > work. Do you see where I'm getting at? Everyone has a belief. How

> > can a Wiccan tell a Hindu you're wrong for what you believe in

> that

> > your devotion is of the lowest form without the Hindu telling the

> > Wiccan the same thing? I have my own beliefs and I know if I do a

> > spell the Goddess has ultimate vito power. She can say "nope

> you're

> > going to be single for a while" or nope " you're not going to be a

>

> > famous singer this year" She has ultimate vito power.

> > So yes I do believe in devotion to the goddess and for anyone

> > telling me my devotion sucks is just plain wrong and even a bit

> > intolerant. I love Kali so much, so very very much that I think

> > about her all day and all night long. No one can tell me that I'm

> > less devoted to her cause I dont do it "their way." here's my

> > belief as many people so there are many religions.

> > Kalimir

> >

> >

> >

> > Charlie <witchatwork03 wrote:

> > I should add that neither of these swamis have any real

> > knowledge of paganism. All their information is coming

> > out of the tradtional shakta context, and it's likely

> > that they may have some comment regarding paganism that

> > you may or may not want to hear.

> >

> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> >

> > I have followed the posts of yours when people were talking about

> > paganism and Ma. Everyone has an opinion.

> >

> > It is odd that this thread has come up now. I have been at a cross

>

> > roads in my spirituality. I had been considering devoting myself

> to

> > Kali. Quite honestly.. after reading your posts.. I am not going

> to

> > go thru with it. This is not meant negatively to you or anyone

> else.

> > But the blind devotion idea, sorry it is not for me. If I had

> wanted

> > that I would have stayed in Christianity.

> >

> > I have come to the point that I realize what I believe in mostly

> is

> > myself. I have the power and strength to stand up and control my

> > life. I also believe in the idea of Ma. I look now upon Her as a

> > force that is needed in my life. A role model if you will.

> >

> > I do not feel your way is incorrect. It is simply not the path I

> am

> > meant to walk. Nor do I feel that you are more enlightend than I

> > because you can just .. to use a Christian term.. "Let go and Let

> > God" Or Goddess in this case. You come to Her in blind

> > faith/devotion..,I come to Her as a Witch who cannot give blind

> > devotion but needs Her strength and love in my life. And the best

> > thing is .. She has both of us.

> >

> > No.. I might not like to hear what a Swami might have to tell me

> > about being a Witch. I live with that with every day. After a

> while

> > it makes your skin thick and sometimes makes you start avoiding

> the

> > type of person that likes to point out how you are wrong and they

> > are right. The Gods and the choices I have made in my life made me

>

> > who and what I am. To date it has been a grand ride.. I look

> forward

> > to whatever else I am given.

> >

> > And why is it that you are typing with a 102 fever? You should be

> in

> > the bed with lots of fluids and Tylenol. Hope you feel better.

> >

> > Jai Ma!

> >

> > Charlie

> >

> >

> > As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> >

> > Kali_Ma/

> >

> >

> > Kali_Ma

> >

> > Terms of

> > Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ______________

> The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!

> Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!

> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

> Links

>

>

> Kali_Ma/

>

>

> Kali_Ma

>

> Terms of

> Service.

>

>

>

>

>

> Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.

 

 

______________

The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!

Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!

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[Guest guest]

Kali_Ma, kalipadma@j... wrote:

>

> In Tantric ritual, if the man ejaculates, the ritual is rendered

invalid.

> No seed is supposed to be emitted in Tantric ritual. This is why

> Parvati is so frustrated in her desires for a baby. Although Shiva is

> the most talented of lovers, as a tantric Yogi, he NEVER ejaculates

-- so

> Parvati never becomes pregnant.

>

> -- Len/ Black Lotus

 

Len, I think this is but one rendering of what is appropriate

in tantric ritual. When tantra is viewed as acts of transgression

against established cultural norms, male ejaculation becomes

especially tantric in the light of its own norms.

 

--jody.

 

> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Maha Kali Tara Ma

> <jai_ma_kali> writes:

> > I dont think Westerners "conceived of this "Western Kali" I believe

> > Kali showed Herself to Westerners this way. Actually in tantra this

> > is not taboo of the spilling of seamon especially if its spilled

> > into a woman. I am currently studying tantra. No beef should ever be

> > offered to the Hindu Gods or Goddesses.

> >

> >

> >

> > Kalimir

> >

> >

> > kalipadma@j... wrote:

> >

> > I'm having a Senior Moment, but there's an American feminist who

> > wrote an

> > essay to the effect that there is a Western Kali, and an Eastern

> > Kali.

> > That so many non-Hindus have been attracted to Kali, that they have

> > built

> > up a thought-form of this feminist, women-liberating Goddess who can

> > be

> > worshipped in a Wiccan or Neo-Pagan manner. Meanwhile, Hindus

> > continue

> > to worship Kali with Puja offerings, and see Her as the force behind

> > Maya

> > (the world of illusion), surrendering their preconceptions to the

> > Goddess.

> >

> > As someone who often teaches Neo-Pagans about Kali (and other Hindu

> > goddesses), I've noted a tendancy for Westerners to come to me,

> > saying,

> > "I'm really into Dark Goddesses. How do I sacrifice an animal to

> > Kali?

> > Can I offer Her a hamburger?"

> >

> > My usual response is, "the dark is only part of the cycle of Life.

> > Respect is due to Dark Goddesses, but also pay attention to the

> > Light

> > Goddesses. I feel that anyone drawn to Kali should also revere

> > Light

> > Goddesses like Lakshmi or Durga. Most Hindus worship Durga during

> > the

> > waxing phases of the Moon, and Kali during the waning phases."

> >

> > So far as sacrifice is concerned, I recommend sacrificing one's ego,

> > delusions and misconceptions. If you haven't been trained in

> > methods of

> > animal slaughter, don't attempt to kill anything for Kali. Only

> > male

> > animals are offered at Kali temples that perform sacrifice, and no

> > Hindu

> > will kill a cow or bull -- they are sacred animals, symbolizing

> > Mother

> > Earth. The point of sacrifice is not to offer dead meat to the

> > Goddess,

> > but to pass life energy. I'd almost recommend using Aleister

> > Crowley's

> > offering of "a perfect, unborn man-child" -- i.e., freshly

> > ejaculated

> > semen. But that, of course, is also taboo in Hinduism.

> >

> > -- Len/ Kalipadma

> >

> >

> > On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Maha Kali Tara Ma

> > <jai_ma_kali> writes:

> > > Quite honestly I am a witch and I am very devoted to Kali. She

> > comes

> > > in my dreams many times and there were times when I needed to

> > > magickally defend myself and she came in my dreams and allowed it.

> > I

> > > had actually become her. So Charles you do not need to back away

> > > from Kali unless this is your True Will.

> > > I have the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and i dont agree with

> > > everything he believed. Do you know he was against women being in

> > > the work force? It's there in his own words in the Gospel of shri

> > > Rama Krishna. But I still learn from his words, I still loved what

> >

> > > he did. That does not mean i have to agree with everything he

> > said.

> > > Also I read eighter it was in his gospel or the book called Kali

> > > that he asked Kali to heal a friend and offered her green coconuts

> >

> > > for it. When someone he did not want near him he would ask Ma to

> > > send him away and then say but if it's your will I will see him.

> > >

> > > Talking about Bhamakempa now a Saint to Tara he would heal people

> > in

> > > the name of Tara and once he even touched a man and killed

> > him.Look

> > > at the book called Kali by Elizabeth U. harding its there in the

> > > chapter about Tara. So what is the difference if I call Tara into

> > me

> > > and do a healing the way i was taught to do so or the way i

> > > channeled it from a higher source?

> > > I do not believe in just letting things go...That is against my

> > > True Will, not my will. I have had many conversations with my HGA.

> > I

> > > do study the works of Aleister Crowley. I was in the OTO. I am

> > > devoted to Kali as well. In fact I believe there was an OTO lodge

> > > way back 10 years ago or so named Kali Lodge.

> > >

> > > So Charles you dont need to give up on Kali.

> > > No one can say anything to change what I believe in. I know this

> > to

> > > be the truth, my truth. Remember one person's truth is another

> > > person's lie. One person's religion is another person's heresy.

> > Who

> > > is right?

> > > Many Christians say that basically we are all going to hell for

> > > being devoted to the Goddess or believing in many gods. The

> > Muslims

> > > Koran calls us infidels for not being Muslims. In fact it says if

> > > you see an infidel you must kill them.

> > > In the old testament there's a passage where they were told by

> > god

> > > to kill all the Pagans. Then there are some Christians who call

> > > worshiping Idols or even praying to one is the Devil's work. So to

> >

> > > them most Hindus and many other religions are doing the Devil's

> > > work. Do you see where I'm getting at? Everyone has a belief. How

> > > can a Wiccan tell a Hindu you're wrong for what you believe in

> > that

> > > your devotion is of the lowest form without the Hindu telling the

> > > Wiccan the same thing? I have my own beliefs and I know if I do a

> > > spell the Goddess has ultimate vito power. She can say "nope

> > you're

> > > going to be single for a while" or nope " you're not going to be a

> >

> > > famous singer this year" She has ultimate vito power.

> > > So yes I do believe in devotion to the goddess and for anyone

> > > telling me my devotion sucks is just plain wrong and even a bit

> > > intolerant. I love Kali so much, so very very much that I think

> > > about her all day and all night long. No one can tell me that I'm

> > > less devoted to her cause I dont do it "their way." here's my

> > > belief as many people so there are many religions.

> > > Kalimir

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Charlie <witchatwork03> wrote:

> > > I should add that neither of these swamis have any real

> > > knowledge of paganism. All their information is coming

> > > out of the tradtional shakta context, and it's likely

> > > that they may have some comment regarding paganism that

> > > you may or may not want to hear.

> > >

> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > >

> > > I have followed the posts of yours when people were talking about

> > > paganism and Ma. Everyone has an opinion.

> > >

> > > It is odd that this thread has come up now. I have been at a cross

> >

> > > roads in my spirituality. I had been considering devoting myself

> > to

> > > Kali. Quite honestly.. after reading your posts.. I am not going

> > to

> > > go thru with it. This is not meant negatively to you or anyone

> > else.

> > > But the blind devotion idea, sorry it is not for me. If I had

> > wanted

> > > that I would have stayed in Christianity.

> > >

> > > I have come to the point that I realize what I believe in mostly

> > is

> > > myself. I have the power and strength to stand up and control my

> > > life. I also believe in the idea of Ma. I look now upon Her as a

> > > force that is needed in my life. A role model if you will.

> > >

> > > I do not feel your way is incorrect. It is simply not the path I

> > am

> > > meant to walk. Nor do I feel that you are more enlightend than I

> > > because you can just .. to use a Christian term.. "Let go and Let

> > > God" Or Goddess in this case. You come to Her in blind

> > > faith/devotion..,I come to Her as a Witch who cannot give blind

> > > devotion but needs Her strength and love in my life. And the best

> > > thing is .. She has both of us.

> > >

> > > No.. I might not like to hear what a Swami might have to tell me

> > > about being a Witch. I live with that with every day. After a

> > while

> > > it makes your skin thick and sometimes makes you start avoiding

> > the

> > > type of person that likes to point out how you are wrong and they

> > > are right. The Gods and the choices I have made in my life made me

> >

> > > who and what I am. To date it has been a grand ride.. I look

> > forward

> > > to whatever else I am given.

> > >

> > > And why is it that you are typing with a 102 fever? You should be

> > in

> > > the bed with lots of fluids and Tylenol. Hope you feel better.

> > >

> > > Jai Ma!

> > >

> > > Charlie

> > >

> > >

> > > As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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> >

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