Who's the Supreme Being ?

[Guest guest]

SrImate rAmAnujAya nama:

Dear Friends,

 

Contrary to popular belief, there is no mention that

SrI rAma worshipped Siva in SrImad vaalmiikii rAmAyaNam

which is the most authentic version.

 

SrI-vaishNavam is based on the apaursheya Veda-s which

unambiguously identify VishNu (SrI's consort)and none

else as the purushOttama (Supreme Person) and Supreme

Being, the worshippable God.

 

The most benevolent sadAcArya SrI vedAnta-deSikA

cites many pramANa-s indicating SrIman-nArAyaNa

(VishNu) as the Highest worshippable God.

 

Veda-s themselves declare that itihAsa-s as a fifth veda.

So mahA-bhAratham is a valid text helpful in determining

the nature of Supreme Truth as-it-is. svAmi SrI vedAnta

deSika quotes profusely from mahA-bhAratha to establish

that worship of VishNu is the best.

 

1) catur-mukha-brahmA and rudra (Siva) are not Supreme Beings.

They are actually *created* Beings.

 

1a) samkshipya ca lokAn mAyyA svayameva hi |

mahArNave SayAno'psu mAm tvam pUrvamajIjana: ||

- SrImad rAmAyaNam 7.104.4

catur-mukha-brahmA says to vishNu:

"Lord (VishNu) ! Earlier, out of Your own Divine Will, having

dissolved all creations, lying down in the waters of praLaya

ocean, You created me first."

 

 

1b) aham prasAdajastasya kasminScit kAraNAntare |

tvam caiva krodhajastAta pUrva-sarge sanAtane ||

-- mahA-bhAratham, SAnti-parvam 352-62

 

catur-mukha-brahmA says to Siva:

" I (catur-mukha-brahmA) was created when SrIman-nArAyaNa had

been pleased with something.

You (Siva) were also *created* when the Lord had had some kind

of displeasure."

 

 

 

2) catur-mukha-brahmA, rudra etc are influenced by karma.

They *attained* their respective *devata positions* by worshipping

the Supreme Lord, VishNu.

 

 

2a) sabrahmakAssarudrASca sendrA devA maharshaya: |

arcayanti sura-SreshTham devam nArAyaNam harim ||

-- mahA-bhAratham. SAnti-parvam 350-30

 

catur-mukha-brahmA, Siva, indra, deva-s, and Rshi-s worship

Lord SrI-hari Who is the best amongst the devas.

 

 

2b) cintayanto hi yam nityam brahmeSAnAdaya: prabhum |

niScayam nAdhigacchanti tam-asmi SaraNam gata: ||

-- mahA-bhAratham, SAnti-purvam 210-33

 

Though they always meditate on SrIman-nArayaNa as their

prabhu, catur-mukha-brahmA, Siva etc do not surely

know His true nature.

 

 

2c) mahA-deva: sarva-medhe mahAtmA hutvA'tmAnam

deva-devao babhUva |

viSvAn lokAn vyApya vishTabhya kIrtyA virAjate

dyutimAn kRttivAsA: ||

-- mahA-bhAratham (SAnti-parvam 20-12)

 

The mahAtmA, Siva (mahA-deva) offered himself in a

sarvamedha-yAgam and thus *became* one of the best among

the deva-s. Then Siva *became* pervaded all worlds

with his (acquired) jnAna and assumed eight different

brilliant forms. The elephant-hide-cladden Siva thus

*became* glorious celebrity.

 

 

3) catur-mukha-brahmA, rudra etc are subject to the dictates of

vishNu's mAyA (deluding power).

They are under the influence of tri-guNa (matter) .

Also, their knowledge expand & contract subject to karma.

They are actually completely dependent on Lord SrI vishNu .

 

brahmAdyAs-sakalA devA manushyA: paSavasthA |

uttamAm sAttvikImetAm gatimAhur-manIshiNa: || manu-dharma 12-50

 

 

Those that predominantly had sattva-guNa in a previous birth and

had performed exceedingly good deeds, are reborn as a catur-mukha-

brahmA (or Siva), nine prajApati-s, dharma, mahat,

avyakta (abhimAni-devata-s thereof) etc.

 

 

4) catur-mukha-brahmA, rudra etc obtain jnAna from SrIman-nArAyaNa in

order to perform their duties (as devotional service to nArAyaNa) .

 

 

etau vibuddha-SreshThau prasAda-krodhajau smRtau |

tadAdarSita-panthAnau sRshTi-samhAra-kArakau ||

-- mahA-bhAratham (SAnti-parvam 350-19)

 

catur-muka-brahma & Siva are born respectively out of bhagavAn

vishNu's pleasure & displeasure.

catur-mukha-brahmA & Siva perform their duties with the knowledge

provided to them by vishNu.

 

 

5) catur-mukha-brahmA, rudra etc are not capable of removing sin

(ie they are not SubhASrayam)

 

karmaNAm paripAkatvAn AvirincAd-amangaLam |

iti matvA viraktasya vAsu-deva: parA gati: ||

-- SrImad-bhAgavatam 11.19.18

 

catur-mukha-brahmA (, Siva) etc are born to reap their own karma,

For those rejecting the desire to reach such karma-vaSya-s as

catur-mukha-brahmA etc, Vasudeva is the Highest Desirable Being

(the only One capable of removing sins).

 

 

 

6) SrIman-nArAyaNa is the Supreme-Self supporting &

controlling catur-mukha-brahmA and Siva etc.

 

tavAtarAtmA mama ca ye cAnye dehimsamgyitA: |

sarveshAm sAkshi-bhUto'sau na grAhya: kenacin kvacit ||

-- mahA-bhAratham (SAnti-parvam 361-4)

 

catur-mukha-brahmA says to Siva,

"bhagavAn vishNu knows (sAkshi) all the activities of

your's (Siva's), mine and all jIvas embodied by karma.

However, but bhagavAn vishNu remains unknowable to anyone

(of us) at any time."

 

 

7) SrIman-nArAyaNa is unparalled & unsurpassed .

 

7a) vAsudevo mahad-bhUtam sarva-daivata-daivatam |

na param puNDarIkAkshAt dRshyate purusharshabha ||

- mahA-bhAratham (bhIshma-parvam 67-2)

 

"Oh Best among men ! There is no God equal or superior to the

Lotus-eyed Lord vAsudeva."

 

7b) esha dhAtA vidhAtA ca sarveshAm prANinAm prabhu: |

param hi puNDarIkAkshAt na-bhUtam na-bhavishyati ||

- mahA-bhAratham (bhIshma-parvam 67-17)

 

God superior to the Lotus-eyed vishNu never ever existed & will

never exist ever.

 

 

8) Difference between bhagavAn vishNu and other devata-s.

 

 

8a) jAyamAnam hi purusham yam paSyen-madhu-sUsana: |

sAttvikassatu vigyeyassa vai mokshArthi-cintaka: ||

paSyatyenam jAyamAnam brahmA rudro'thavA puna: |

rajasA tamasA cAsya mAnasam samabhiplutam ||

- mahA-bhAratham (SAnti-parvam 358-73, 358-77)

 

If one is recepient of vishNu's benediction at the time of

one's birth, one will have sattva quality predominantly and

will have desire for moksha (ie eternal service to vishNu).

 

but at one's birth, catur-mukha-brahmA's benediction will only

produce rajo-guNa (passion) predominantly and Siva's

benediction will only produce predominant tamo-guNa (ignorance).

 

 

8b) brahmANam SitikaNTham ca yAScAnyA devatA-smRtA: |

prati-buddhA na sevante yasmAt pari-mitam phalam ||

- mahA-bhAratham (SAnti-parvam 350-36)

 

Intelligent people (desiring moksha) do not worship catur-mukha-

brahmA, Siva etc because such devata-s can 'confer' only petty

(short-lived) results.

 

 

8c) kAnkshanta: karmaNAm siddhim yajanta iha devatA: |

kshipram hi mAnushe loke siddhir-bhavati karmajA ||

- SrImad rAmAyaNam 6-18-33

 

If SrI-rAma is determined to punish someone, neither

the four-headed brahmA nor Siva nor indra

could save that person.

 

 

8d) sa tayA SraddhayA yukta: tasyArAdhanamIhate |

labhate ca tata: kAmAn mayaiva vihitAn hi tAn ||

-bhagavad gItA 7-22

 

Results obtained through demigod-worship are actually

given by Me only.

 

 

8e) rUpa-prakAra-parimANa-kRtavyavastham

viSvam viparyasitumanyadasacca kartum |

kshAmyan svabhAvaniyamam kimudIkshase tvam

svAntantryamaiSvaramaparyanuyojyamAhu: ||

- bhagavad-gItA 9-23

 

Arjuna ! Those that worship demi-gods devoutly & faithfully,

indeed worship Me only.

but their worship is incorrect and inconsistent with SAstra-s.

 

 

Conclusion:

 

Atmaikyam, devataikyam, trikasamAdhi-gatA tulyatA, aikyam trayANAm,

anyatra aiSvaryam, ityAdi anipuNa-phaNitI: Adriyante na santa: |

traiyyantai: eka-kaNThai: tad-anuguNa manu-vyAsa-mukhyoktibhi: ca

SrIman-nArAyaNo na: pati: akhila-tanu: mukti-da: mukta-bhogya: ||

- svAmi SrImAn vedAnta-deSika

 

"All AtmA are the one", "All devata-s are one",

"trimUrti-s have equivalent jnAna & Sakti",

"trimUrti-s AtmA-s are essentially same",

"Something other than the trimUrt-s, is the Lord",

and such similar statements are made by the naive.

 

They do not fascinate the wise (ie santa-s or viveki-s who

are expert at discriminating the best from the rest.)

Rather, for us who rely on the consistent message of the

upanishad-s and the words of such experts as SrI manu, SrI vyAsa

etc, our Master is the Supreme Lord SrIman-nArAyaNa, who has

everything else inseparably as His 'body', Who bestows

moksha (ie eternal devotional service) and

Who is experienced wholly by mukta-s.

 

SrImadANDavan tiruvaDigaLE SaraNam !

aDiyEn rAmAnuja-dAsan

 

//Ramkumar

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Ramkumar,

 

> “Veda-s themselves declare that itihAsa-s as a fifth veda”.

could you please provide the citation for this.

I do not recall any such verse.

 

If we hold to the traditional arguments that the

Veda is prabhala as it is shruti; all other

sastras are Smrti and hence inevitably subordinate

the above statement seems an obvious interpolation.

Further, according to the traditional canon, only

that which is in accord with shruti, yukti and

anubhava should be accepted as genuine. All others

are to be rejected.

 

Have a nice day now.

 

Nagendra

[Guest guest]

SrI:

 

Vedic pramANa-s indicating validity of itihAsa purANa-s as

being a useful in properly undertstanding the veda-s :

 

1) Rg-vedam bhagavOdhyemi yajur-vedam sAma-vedamAtharvaNam

caturtham-itihAsa-purANam pancamam vedAnAm vedam.

-- ChAndoyopanishad 7,1,2

 

[ The above reference in chandoyopanishad is confirmed by

SrI vAtsyAyana, the author of nyAya-sUtra-s:

 

"purANena khalu brAhmaNetihAsa-purANasya prAmANyamabhyupagamyate|

te vA khelvetetharvA'ngirasa etad-itihAsa-purANasya prAmANya-

mabhyavadan 'itihAsa-purANam ca pancamam vedAnAm veda'

iti chAndogye" - nyAya-sutre, 4, 1, 62 vAtsyAyana:

 

"The brAhmaNa portion of the veda is an authority and

it accepts the authority of the itihAsa and purANa

inasmuchas the atharvAngiras people declared in

chAndogyopanishad: 'The itihAsa-purANa is a veda

among the veda-s' "

]

 

 

2) are'sya mahato bhUtasya ni:Svasitametad yadRgvedo yajur-veda:

sAma-vedo'tharvAngirasa itihAsa-purANam .

-- bRhadAraNyakopanishad 2,4,11

 

Yagyavalkya instructs maitreyI, "The Rg-veda, yajur-veda, sAma-veda,

atharvAgIrasa-veda and itihAsa-purANa - all that is exhalation of

this Great Being".

 

3) brAhmaNAnItihAsAn purANAni kalpAn gAthA nArASamsIriti

-- taittirIyAraNyakam 2,9

 

The brAhmaNa-s, itihAsa, purANa-s, kalpa-s, gAtha-s and

nArASamsI-s (are helpful in the study of the veda-s).

 

 

aDiyEn rAmAnuja-dAsa

//Ramkumar

 

, "Nagendra S. Rao" <n.s.rao@a...> wrote:

>

> > 'Veda-s themselves declare that itihAsa-s as a fifth veda'

> could you please provide the citation for this.

> I do not recall any such verse.

> [...]

> Nagendra