Is Ramanuja's visistadvaita incoplete ?

[Guest guest]

>From Gaudiya web site - refer to the reply by a Gaudiya master in

regard to visistadvaita and achintya bhedabheda. Can some one please

clarify whether the Gaudiya claim is justified ?

 

Q. Some devotees teach that the visistadvaita (qualified oneness)

philosophy of Ramanujacharya is the same as the acintya-bhedabheda

(inconceivable simultaneous oneness and difference) philosophy of Sri

Caitanya Mahaprabhu. My question is if the two philosophies are the

same in tattva then where is the acintya (inconceivability) to be

found in Sri Ramanuja's philosophy. That philosophy clearly explains

the relationship between the object and quality as the dehi and deha,

but Gaudiyas seem to say there must be some inconceivability in this.

Where is this inconceivability?

 

A. The philosophy of the Gaudiya sampradaya and that of the Ramanuja

sampradaya are not the same. Ramanuja, for example, attributes

internal distinction (svagatabheda) to Brahman, whereas the Gaudiyas

do not. For Ramanuja, Brahman's qualities (as he views them)--the

jivas, and the world--are not the same as that which they qualify

(Brahman). However, neither can these qualities exist outside of that

which they qualify. Thus the two are not different from one another

either. In Ramanuja's view, a special relationship exists between

Brahman, the jivas, and the world. He calls this relationship aprthak-

siddhi, or inseparability. With this term Ramanuja seeks to logically

explain the identity and difference of Brahman.

 

It appears that in reality Ramanuja finds it difficult to describe

the relationship of identity and difference but accepts both of them.

Indeed, according to Ramanuja himself (Sribhasya 2.2.12), aprthak-

siddhi is not strictly a relation, although his followers such as

Vedanta Desika sometimes speak of it as such. Thus through careful

examination both scholars and acaryas of other sampradayas came to

conclude that acceptance of Ramanuja's term aprthak-siddhi really

involves forgoing logic. In this regard, the Gaudiya acaryas have

determined that this logical shortcoming of Sri Ramanuja's metaphysic

is resolved with the concept of acintya, or inconceivability with

regard to the nature of ultimate reality and its being simultaneously

one and different.

 

Thus the Gaudiyas feel that the metaphysic of acintya-bhedabheda

tattva better explains the nature of ultimate reality, and that this

explanation is an improvement on the efforts of Ramanuja and others.

Ramanuja and others have struggled to come to grips with the fact

that the concepts of either oneness or difference are inadequate to

comprehensively explain the nature of the Absolute.

 

The Gaudiyas have concluded that Brahman is both one and different

simultaneously, and that this is possible because the Absolute

possesses inconceivable power (acintya-sakti). Others have developed

terms such as anirvacaniya (Sankara), aprthak-siddhi (Ramanuja),

svabhavika (Nimbarka), visesa (Madhva), and samavaya (Vallabha) to

bring logic to bear on the oneness and difference of Brahman, when in

reality the simultaneous oneness and difference of the absolute is

acintya (inconceivable). Indeed, careful study of these other

doctrines of Vedanta reveals that they implicitly acknowledge the

acintya-sakti of the Absolute but are unable to identify it as such.

 

Therefore, the Gaudiyas lay claim to accepting the nature of the

Absolute (and scripture) "as it is" with regard to its oneness and

difference. In this way they have sought not to inordinately impose

the limits of logic on the nature of being, but rather accept it for

what it is and attribute its nature to the acintya-sakti, or the

inconceivability of God.

[Guest guest]

one and different, God is reality, and God controls reality.

 

God is the substance and the controller of the substance.

 

God is one identity(Bhagavan),and God has many shared identities(jivas)

 

inconceivable means YOU cannot conceive fully of HOW God is doing these things,

it is beyond our experience ,only God can properly conceive of HOW these things

are going.

 

you can only gain a basic understanding,like you understand that if you plant a

seed and water it it will grow and produce fruit, but How that reality was

created and how it is being maintained in the cosmic sense is beyond your

ability to understand in full.